We already know Vitiate is more powerful than Kun and Malgus theres no room for debate on that. Neither of them earn a spot in the top 10 imo.

 

Perhaps at a stretch Kun can be argued in somewhere around 8-10 but certainly not Malgus

Let me invalidate this Reason why Vitiate is not canon is because the jedi knight in this game kills Vitiate.

He defeat him fair and sqare, and jedi knight in this game is not canon, dont even exist on written word anywere, its a

class in a game. For even the story line to be canon they have to do what Drew did to Revan in Revan novel, and they

have not done that.So by this fact the jedi knight in this game is on that list, but of course he/she is not because that storyline is not canon AND never happen.See were i'm going with this ??

Let me invalidate this Reason why Vitiate is not canon is because the jedi knight in this game kills Vitiate

He defeat him fair and sqare, and jedi knight in this game is not canon, dont even exist on written word anywere, its a

class in a game. For even the story line to be canon they have to do what Drew did to Revan in Revan novel, and they

have not done that.So by this fact the jedi knight in this game is on that list, but of course he/she is not because that storyline is not canon AND never happen.See were i'm going with this ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI0RoJz7Tno

to say at least

Let me invalidate this Reason why Vitiate is not canon is because the jedi knight in this game kills Vitiate.

He defeat him fair and sqare, and jedi knight in this game is not canon, dont even exist on written word anywere, its a

class in a game. For even the story line to be canon they have to do what Drew did to Revan in Revan novel, and they

have not done that.So by this fact the jedi knight in this game is on that list, but of course he/she is not because that storyline is not canon AND never happen.See were i'm going with this ??

No the jedi Knight is cannon by the way the proper title for Jedi Knight is "The hero of Tython" he was a real person in the star wars universe. Vitiate is the strongest of the time by the information given in-game Jedi knight only defeated the Voice and we specifically KNOW that he was weakened at the time its why the JK goes to face him there you go all your information is debunked and ya its just known Cannon that Vitiate was the strongest being up until that time all that came before were weaker end of debate no point argueing that any further.

No the jedi Knight is cannon

Really ? What is the name of this jedi knight ???? What happen to this jedi after this fight ??

How did this Jedi die, old age ? battle ? does it say in wookieepedia ?? Did this jedi use a singel saber,,dual saber

staff saber ?? Is there a picture of this 1 jedi ? see were i'm going with this ?

As i said before Jedi knight class story in swtor is not canon, even bioware have said this one time.

It's like saying the gameplay in revenge of the sith on PS2 was canon, of course not.Game mecanics !

Anyone who dont understand these things and talk about them just embarrass them self.

What some of you ignoramus stupidious lolslore forums heroes need to understand it that nothing

is canon until it is in the A movies B animated series C novels.

For jedi knight story to be canon a autor must give them character a gender,aligment as was that character

a lightside/darkside jedi.What he/she did outside of the story that takes place in this game,were is this character

from,name etc etc etc.

Same thig happen to Revan as a character,Revan became male, lightside , had a child etc etc after

Drew wrote Revan the novel.Up until that point it was all lore and game mecanics.

What some of you ignoramus stupidious lolslore forums heroes need to understand it that nothing

is canon until it is in the a movies b animated series c novels.

 

For jedi knight story to be canon a autor must give them character a gender,aligment as was that character

a lightside/darkside jedi.What he/she did outside of the story that takes place in this game,were is this character

from,name etc etc etc.

 

Same thig happen to Revan as a character,Revan became male, lightside , had a child etc etc after

Drew wrote Revan the novel.Up until that point it was all lore and game mecanics.

It must be terrible being you. I's sorry for you.

No,but seriously? You *are* trolling right ?Noone is THAT ignorant/s*upid.

The father was stronger then both of them, right? Mortis Trilogy is just an attempt to explain the "balance in the Force" ideology originally proposed by GL and it is still confusing.

 

My point is that extremely powerful Sith Lords can disturb the balance of the Force until destroyed. Sith Lords, in general, do not adhere to the will of the Force, they rather misuse it. Several Sith Lords have attempted to harm the Force itself; Traya; Nihilus; Tenebrae. Also, the path of dark side can lead to unlimited power (godlike capabilities). You do the math now.

In the end, the most powerful dark side power can be absorbed by a powerful enough Jedi. Even a Force storm could be dispelled by the power of the light side, the fact that the combined efforts of Luke and Leia used the light to do this shows it is possible if you are strong enough. Essentially the light can simply shine out the dark.

And with the Force potential of the Chosen One, Luke Skywalker likely achieved enough power to sever Sidious from the Force without the aid of his sister. I mean, we have to remember what George Lucas said on the matter:

"However, after all of his limbs were severed and he was extremely burned on Mustafar he lost much of his Force potential. As Darth Vader, Skywalker was believed to have had roughly 80% of the strength of the Emperor. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar he would have been twice as powerful."

Given that Luke is said to have achieved the potential of the Chosen One, he is twice as powerful as Sidious pre-Dark Empire and unless Sidious doubled in strength (which is very unlikely) at the pinnacle of Luke's power was likely more powerful than even post-Endor Sidious.

Now yes, Luke was put into a comatose by the spirit of Exar Kun, but let's not forget that Exar Kun was a very powerful Sith Lord and as a Force ghost he may have even become more powerful. He also combined that power with the incredible Force ability of Kyp Durron. But even then it was not enough to kill Luke, who managed to subdue Exar Kun with the help of others while still in spirit form. And even then he had yet to reach his full potential.

Not necessarily. Some examples:-

 

1. Luke had no answer to the power that Exar Kun unleashed upon him.

2. Tutaminis abilities didn't work against Tenebrae's "swirling storm of pure dark side energies" type lightning and this is not his most potent power either.

 

I can offer more examples...

Remember I'm not arguing that Light > Dark always, but that they are equal, and a light sider and dark sider of completely equal strength will be completely equal. And that there is no dark side power that cannot be countered by a light sider of sufficient strength. The examples you gave involved light siders who lacked such strength.

You should focus on available evidence. Their is no need for a consensus; different people have different views and many do not understand "ground realities" of the Star Wars (canonical evidence is your best ally). You can dig more on this if you want to and we can discuss it. Of-course, if somebody wishes to get involved in this debate, he or she will do so.

 

I reiterate that Sidious and Tenebrae should occupy 1st or 1st and 2nd spots respectively. No Jedi had reached their level of power.

Why not? You think that the Sith Empire constituted by Tenebrae was predominantly inhabited by mooks? It has witnessed rise and fall of many prodigiously talented Sith Lords in history.

 

And this is your assumption or you have any poof?

 

Also, canonically being a "master of the dark side" and being formidable enough to rout whole armies singlehandedly does not seems like big deal to you? I am surprised honestly. Few Sith Lords in history have comparable accolades. Limited information does not suggests that a character is weak or something in the grand scheme of things.

And don't have say that, if we take that literally, there's no post-ROTJ EU, no new movies. So, G-canon can be used unquestionably to provide facts, but never to compare characters, especially of distant eras.

 

Proof is that, even you Beni, a fierce defender of G-canon, begins to wonder about Luke being more powerful than Sidious (for me, obviously he isn't).

Basically, G-Canon still stands and until its done away with I'm not going to disregard it. We don't know what Disney are going to do so its impossible to speculate. The movies don't exist yet so debating whether they are canon or not is pointless. We are in the here and now, and in the here and now G-Canon is absolute.

Remember this is the 'REAL' most powerful Force users - so it has to act in accordance with canon.

It must be terrible being you. I's sorry for you.

 

No,but seriously? You *are* trolling right ?Noone is THAT ignorant/s*upid.

How can i say this in a nice way hmmmmmm

if you go to force.net etc sites were the top dogs when it comes to lore, canon etc hangs out and you talk like you do

here not only will they close your threads they will call you out as a idiot and ignore you

When someone claim game mecanics is canon stories do you understand what a complete retard that

person sound like .

Let me invalidate this Reason why Vitiate is not canon is because the jedi knight in this game kills Vitiate.

He defeat him fair and sqare, and jedi knight in this game is not canon, dont even exist on written word anywere, its a

class in a game. For even the story line to be canon they have to do what Drew did to Revan in Revan novel, and they

have not done that.So by this fact the jedi knight in this game is on that list, but of course he/she is not because that storyline is not canon AND never happen.See were i'm going with this ??

The Sith Emperor is also canon, EVERYONE who appears in SWTOR is C-Canon.

The Hero of Tython (yes that's his name) is canon. He is mentioned in the SWTOR Encyclopedia as an in-universe character. He is canon.

 

The Sith Emperor is also canon, EVERYONE who appears in SWTOR is C-Canon.

So your saying his parents gave him/her the name hero of tython. Are you really this dumb ?????

You know i give up on you guys. Guess there is a reason why certain gamers is not the smartest people out there.

Quote Adam Sandler from SNL .... I HAVE STUPID IN STEREO.

So your saying his parents gave him/her the name hero of tython. Are you really this dumb ?????

 

You know i give up on you guys. Guess there is a reason why certain gamers is not the smartest people out there.

Quote Adam Sandler from SNL .... I HAVE STUPID IN STEREO.

No because it has no story.

 

C-Canon encompasses games as well as comics and books, SWTOR is a game, the story in SWTOR is therefore C-Canon. It is part of the Expanded Universe.

 

And please, stop swearing. Its just immature.

 

EDIT:

 

C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be;[7] they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports.

 

Everything written in Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia is also canon. The Hero of Tython and the Sith Emperor appears in this book. In fact, in the Book of Sith Sidious complies several Sith texts - one of these is a journal of Darth Malgus. And in Darth Plagueis (an EU novel) Plagueis makes note that the Sith Emperor was the only one to achieve immortality - further solidifying his position in canon.

 

Furthermore, the Revan novel makes reference to the Hero of Tython - Scourge sees him in a vision.

 

To refute these events as non-canon I'm afraid is invalid. They are part of the Expanded Universe.

 

Anyway don't bother replying. I've already made a mental note to ignore your future replies in this thread and any other threads in the future. And I'm sure everyone else will adopt a similar policy. Good day.

that last bit I would like to say easy beni on while he may be wrong in this case we are all human and we all make mistakes he has the ability to learn from these mistakes and become better for it as we all do every one has the capacity for betterment and to slight some one for a simple rage and mistake for the rest of their days is far to harsh they can still become better for it. This is why I came to these forums to both learn about this fictional universe that I love as well as bring my own knowledge and information and view point to the debates allowing others to learn as I learn. We can all still better ourselves lets not shut ourselves off from him he may still learn.

above, according to G-Canon are the most powerful Jedi and Sith respectively and Luke Skywalker the most powerful Force user who has himself defeated Darth Sidious at the pinnacle of his power in post-ROTJ.

Lucas says he is the most powerful Jedi Knight.

Being a force user is not the same as being a Jedi/Sith

What exactly are we ranking?

Midichloran Count?

Actual achievements?

Force skills (if so which force skills rank higher?)

Who could beat who?

Force potential?

Lightsabre Prowess?

Force Knowledge?

Naturally attained power or power through ritual?

Most of the discussions in this topic bring forward different levels of appreciation in each of the above.

To me the most powerfull Force user (not sith or jedi) Is Vitate.

While hed probably lose to Yoda. Luke and Sideous etc in single combat.

His Rituals gave him the potential to be the strongest force being ever.

However these rituals were learned and are not inherent strenght. So others will probably disagree.

Whatever people find the most important factor in combination with percieved strenght and weaknesses will make this topic highly debatble.

Id propose you first set outlines of what you want to define, followed by decisive factors.

Lucas says he is the most powerful Jedi Knight.

Being a force user is not the same as being a Jedi/Sith

What exactly are we ranking?

 

Midichloran Count?

Actual achievements?

Force skills (if so which force skills rank higher?)

Who could beat who?

Force potential?

Lightsabre Prowess?

Force Knowledge?

Naturally attained power or power through ritual?

 

Most of the discussions in this topic bring forward different levels of appreciation in each of the above.

To me the most powerfull Force user (not sith or jedi) Is Vitate.

While hed probably lose to Yoda. Luke and Sideous etc in single combat.

His Rituals gave him the potential to be the strongest force being ever.

However these rituals were learned and are not inherent strenght. So others will probably disagree.

 

Whatever people find the most important factor in combination with percieved strenght and weaknesses will make this topic highly debatble.

Id propose you first set outlines of what you want to define, followed by decisive factors.

According to Lucas Luke Skywalker is greatest Jedi Master ever (as grandmaster of the new order), Darth Sidious (Emperor Palpatine) is greatest Sith Ever, also Luke is more powerful and more skilled in the Force than Sidious. In this Lucas's opinion is still the deciding factor, so unless a stronger non-Jedi non-sith force user turns up, then Luke is strongest force user ever.

For actual achievements Luke learned every lightside technique available while rebuilding the Jedi order, he also learned numerous darkside techniques during "Dark Empire" novels. He inherited his fathers potential, and unlike Vader he actual fulfilled it, becoming immensely powerful. During the events of several novels, he displayed complete mastery of the lightsaber, even weilding it in area's with no force present (due to tree parasites that pushed away the force(read Thrawn series)), like Sidious he learned every lightsaber style possible as well, and perfected those styles.

Sidious learned every Darkside Technique available, which was probably all darkside techniques ever (Plageus novel), also learned every lightsaber style/technique. From the novels he was also immensely powerful, but in various novels we know that if Anakin/Vader had fulfilled his potential he would have been stronger than Sidious (Luke did fulfil same potential). Sidious demonstrates in the books numerous force abilities, including battle meditation (Luke only used this a few times, while the real Jedi master of the Technique is Leia (who is officially recognised as a Jedi by Luke's pupils)), force lightning, mind reading, and prophecy.

I'm avoiding "who could beat who" and "natural strength in the force versus force ritual", as these complicate matters, and are usually down to relative strengths at some point in time, which needlessly complicate matters.

that last bit I would like to say easy beni on while he may be wrong in this case we are all human and we all make mistakes he has the ability to learn from these mistakes and become better for it as we all do every one has the capacity for betterment and to slight some one for a simple rage and mistake for the rest of their days is far to harsh they can still become better for it. This is why I came to these forums to both learn about this fictional universe that I love as well as bring my own knowledge and information and view point to the debates allowing others to learn as I learn. We can all still better ourselves lets not shut ourselves off from him he may still learn.

No excuse for the insulting language, but you have to love someone calling people stupid when he can't comprehend noun/verb agreement.

Beni, Aurbere... Wondering if you guys have contemplated Jaina Solo in these rankings. She's getting pretty powerful based on her exploits in the novels.

 

Anyway don't bother replying. I've already made a mental note to ignore your future replies in this thread and any other threads in the future. And I'm sure everyone else will adopt a similar policy. Good day.[/color]

Cry me a river ignorant fool. Maybe tetris lore is more for you, Tell you what, why dont you show up

on a star wars convention and talk about these things so people can laugh straight in your face

I never ever try to reason with a fool who clearly dont understand basic logic withing a universe were lucasfilm

have laid dow the law, only to have some forum nobody like you try and make up canon.

Your a fool and a dumb one. Report me all you like, you will still be dumb and clueless on star wars facts

when it comes to lore and canon, to put it this way, when no brainers on a gaming forum actually goes against the word of george lucas himself in various topics that just prove how beyond braindead some of you are.

This mean these people are so retarded they would tell george lucas to his face-

*No what your saying is wrong George, Vitiate is more powerful because i think he is George, and everyone

around looks upon you as a complete moron smiles and goes away leaving the braindead moron alone*

Beni, Aurbere... Wondering if you guys have contemplated Jaina Solo in these rankings. She's getting pretty powerful based on her exploits in the novels.

I'm also aware that in her duel with Caedus, Luke was aiding her by distracting him.

But again, I'm no expert on post-ROTJ so you'll have to enlighten me.

I don't understand why no one is talking about Revan. He is one of the greates Jedi ever. I really don't understand why people hs this absurd notion that everybody from Rise of the Empire era and beyond, is extremely more powerful than people from the Old Republic Era.

You say you are taking Wookieepedia as the base for the arguments, so let's see what it says about Revan:

"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force."

At the height of his powers after he had recovered his lost memories, Revan was able to channel both the light and dark sides simultaneously, and as a result Revan could unleash the Force in its purest form by opening himself to both sides of the Force in battle.

Revan was capable of absorbing and redirecting energy, as he did when he absorbed Darth Nyriss's storm of Force lightning with his bare hands and channeled it through his own body before redirecting it against her and burning her to ash.

Despite the immense strength of the Sith Emperor's will, Revan and Malak's own mental strength enabled them to partially free themselves from his mental control, and Revan spent several centuries influencing the Emperor and pacifying his desire to attack the Republic.

I don't understand why no one is talking about Revan. He is one of the greates Jedi ever. I really don't understand why people hs this absurd notion that everybody from Rise of the Empire era and beyond, is extremely more powerful than people from the Old Republic Era.

 

You say you are taking Wookieepedia as the base for the arguments, so let's see what it says about Revan:

 

Kreia, talking to Meetra Surik about Revan's power

("Save you some time and Stress.......Any Quote by Kreia regarding Revan is ignored by the Revan Hate Group , only Quotes Kreia said about Meetra are taken serious by them")

We know that Revan is defensively powerful explained in the Revan Novel but to date there is no list of skills and powers he has mastered .

Heck to date Revan is a Orphan Baby as well as it was made clear no one had a clue where he was born and it was suspected from the Outer Rim .

(Sourced KotoR I and II)

So its not a insult not to add Revan to the list , we can all admit he's powerful but to place him on this list might be a insult to him or the other characters who are shown by skill and power .

I know people on here are discounting Jaina but she is by Luke's own wording going to rival him in power and skill .

Revan is definitely on the cards and could definitely be a contender for No. 7 However I wouldn't place him much higher that that which is why he hasn't got a mention until now.

We do know a fair bit about Revan's abilities though mefit:

He uncovered the ritual of the Thought bomb indicating a great understanding of the dark side.

He defeated Darth Malak who was being powered by the Star Forge.

He easily absorb the full power of Nyriss' lightning and incinerate here. Doing what the combined efforts of Meeta and Scourge could not.

He challenged the Emperor, deflecting his lightining and absorb the full might of his power for a short period of time - he made the Emperor fear for his life to such a level he created a Voice to protect him.

He has shown extensive ability with telkinesis by throwing large projectiles through the air.

He has achieved Oneness with the Force.

Now in general its difficult to gauge Revan's abilities for various reasons, but we can compare them with other candidates for No. 7 who IMO would be:

Darth Plagueis

Darth Vader

Cade Skywalker

Kyp Durron

Jaina Solo

Thon

Getherizon

Nomi Sunrider

Mace Windu

Darth Malgus

Quite a few. But perhaps we should begin by ranking this list as best we can.

Revan is definitely on the cards and could definitely be a contender for No. 7 However I wouldn't place him much higher that that which is why he hasn't got a mention until now.

 

We do know a fair bit about Revan's abilities though mefit:

 

He uncovered the ritual of the Thought bomb indicating a great understanding of the dark side.

He defeated Darth Malak who was being powered by the Star Forge.

He easily absorb the full power of Nyriss' lightning and incinerate here. Doing what the combined efforts of Meeta and Scourge could not.

He challenged the Emperor, deflecting his lightining and absorb the full might of his power for a short period of time - he made the Emperor fear for his life to such a level he created a Voice to protect him.

He has shown extensive ability with telkinesis by throwing large projectiles through the air.

He has achieved Oneness with the Force.

 

Now in general its difficult to gauge Revan's abilities for various reasons, but we can compare them with other candidates for No. 7 who IMO would be:

 

Darth Plagueis

Darth Vader

Cade Skywalker

Kyp Durron

Jaina Solo

Thon

Getherizon

Nomi Sunrider

Mace Windu

Darth Malgus

 

Quite a few. But perhaps we should begin by ranking this list as best we can.

Without getting into names , but I think those who oppose Revan as anything more than a Average Jedi Knight are waiting for a list of skills and powers he has mastered and not achievements that should be equally taken into account .

As for Number 7 .

It is hard

Vader

Darth Plagueis

Cade Skywalker

Jaina Solo

^ These would be my pics !

As for Malgus , I do not want to get into a Vader vs Malgus debate , as usually reality seems to bend out of shape whenever I pick a side .

*Cade Skywalker is almost the Luke Skywalker of his time , without the God like powers part . Not to mention cunning on how he killed a Sithlord who refused to die and was pretty much immortal. As for power , I do not know If I can recall anything note worthy at the moment but I can be wrong.

*Vader choked people from reaches that no one else could or atleast hes the only one I can remember doing so at the moment .

*Darth Plagueis was feared enough by Sidious that he had to get him drunk and wait till he pasted out to kill him . It also began Sidious theory to not sleep ........but other than being able to will others back to life there is not much known on Plagueis force powers.

* Jaina Solo , the twin sister of Jacen Solo . Usually in SW the twins are thought to be on the same level in power .

Jacen only was outshadowed by Luke Skywalker in power .

A lot of people think Leia was very powerful in the force , being Luke's twin . Luke himself said Jaina is very powerful , so I guess we have to wait and see.

Without getting into names , but I think those who oppose Revan as anything more than a Average Jedi Knight are waiting for a list of skills and powers he has mastered and not achievements that should be equally taken into account .

 

As for Number 7 .

It is hard

Vader

Darth Plagueis

Cade Skywalker

Jaina Solo

^ These would be my pics !

As for Malgus , I do not want to get into a Vader vs Malgus debate , as usually reality seems to bend out of shape whenever I pick a side .

 

*Cade Skywalker is almost the Luke Skywalker of his time , without the God like powers part . Not to mention cunning on how he killed a Sithlord who refused to die and was pretty much immortal. As for power , I do not know If I can recall anything note worthy at the moment but I can be wrong.

*Vader choked people from reaches that no one else could or atleast hes the only one I can remember doing so at the moment .

*Darth Plagueis was feared enough by Sidious that he had to get him drunk and wait till he pasted out to kill him . It also began Sidious theory to not sleep ........but other than being able to will others back to life there is not much known on Plagueis force powers.

* Jaina Solo , the twin sister of Jacen Solo . Usually in SW the twins are thought to be on the same level in power .

Jacen only was outshadowed by Luke Skywalker in power .

A lot of people think Leia was very powerful in the force , being Luke's twin . Luke himself said Jaina is very powerful , so I guess we have to wait and see.

I mean, Plagueis could rival Sidious' power but I doubt he could best him, him being Sidious an all. So I'd give him a good 90% - however this was before Sidious achieved his full potential. I think that over the next 20 years Sidious probably increased in power by about 50%.

Given that (and I know applying maths to such things is a bit dubious but Lucas does it so what the hell) Plagueis would therefore possesses a generous 70% of Sidious' power. That's 10% below Vader. And even if Sidious did not improve by half, he must have improved by a considerable amount so I'd say that Vader is at least that bit more powerful.

However I think Vader would surpass even Cade. I mean, Sidious being the most powerful dark sider ever is effectively dark side perfection. The perfect grade if you like. If you got 80% in an exam you'd be pretty please no? I mean that is pretty damn good, that's at least an A if not an A*. So 80% of the perfect Sith is very impressive.

That said, Cade is a Skywalker and unlike Vader not hindered in anyway - so I can't be sure on that one.