Back in the good olds days of paper D&D people were given a basic template and set of rules and used their imagination to create content within that structure.

I don't see why as a community this can't be done within SWTOR without needing an official "mission creator" like has existed in other MMOs.

It's a bit like having to jump and fight your way through hoops to get a reward, and imposing your own limits on what you have to do to get it. Ignore what content Bioware is or isn't releasing, ignore what you agree or don't agree with is on CM and ignore what other players are doing. The power is in your hands to make the game fun and challenging without expecting a skeleton development team to cater to your exact whims.

For example, say you want to unlock having a GTN kiosk on your ship. You could set your own mission objectives that you have to complete to be able to do it. And share that list of objectives with the rest of the community. Find a group of likeminded people and do it together. That way you are being sociable within a sociable environment, enjoying playing a Star Wars themed game, you've got a goal that you want to achieve, there's a carrot waiting for you and you work with other to achieve it and the content is new and tailored towards you.

An example of your own created quest chain could be:

1. Collect 100 of trash item x (from killing certain mobs)

2. Travel to every planet and /salute all of the cantina vendors

3. Kill a world boss with just your fists

4. Achieve legacy level 40 and Valor level 50

5. Complete a level 50 flashpoint killing every single mob

After you've done all these things, meet up at a certain NPC on the fleet and "claim" your reward by purchasing it.

The toolset is there to create our own fun.

For the same reason people rarely go to Outlaw's Den to do OWPVP: because they feel like they need to be rewarded for playing the game.

I'm not against Bioware doing more for PVErs and PVPers, with more rewards and stuff, but I find it funny that people always need to have a reason to do something other than "because it's fun". It seems that gamers today only consider "fun" things that will give them a special title, or a special mount or better gear etc.

Back in the good olds days of paper D&D people were given a basic template and set of rules and used their imagination to create content within that structure.

I think we can safely assume those days are over.

People don't want to work hard anymore and they certainly prefer doing 2-3 ops and 5 WZs again and again to actually using their imagination.

For the same reason people rarely go to Outlaw's Den to do OWPVP: because they feel like they need to be rewarded for playing the game.

 

I'm not against Bioware doing more for PVErs and PVPers, with more rewards and stuff, but I find it funny that people always need to have a reason to do something other than "because it's fun". It seems that gamers today only consider "fun" things that will give them a special title, or a special mount or better gear etc.

 

 

 

I think we can safely assume those days are over.

People don't want to work hard anymore and they certainly prefer doing 2-3 ops and 5 WZs again and again to actually using their imagination.

It's evolved beyond playing the game for a reward over playing the game for fun too. Casuals don't want to have to think about their fun, they want it on a plate for them to enjoy when they wind down at the end of the day. And hardcore players want a unique reward hard-gated by content that only they and a small amount of other people who have large amounts of available playtime can unlock.

it's great in concept..but terrible in practice.

it'll either end up like space missions (worthless with very little to no reward..so rarely done) or if there are rewards people will just find a way to exploit it.

City of Heroes was the perfect example..they introduced their player created mission thing. it was dominated by missions with easy-to-kill but high-exp-gain enemies in droves that everyone grouped up and spammed over and over leveling up in ridiculous speeds.

I was part of that first hand.

So if you give normal rewards...people will exploit it for power leveling...if you reduce the rewards or eliminate them it will only be used by a very small group.

it isn't worth their time and/or effort to do

it's great in concept..but terrible in practice.

 

it'll either end up like space missions (worthless with very little to no reward..so rarely done) or if there are rewards people will just find a way to exploit it.

 

City of Heroes was the perfect example..they introduced their player created mission thing. it was dominated by missions with easy-to-kill but high-exp-gain enemies in droves that everyone grouped up and spammed over and over leveling up in ridiculous speeds.

 

I was part of that first hand.

 

So if you give normal rewards...people will exploit it for power leveling...if you reduce the rewards or eliminate them it will only be used by a very small group.

 

it isn't worth their time and/or effort to do

I don't think you've understood the idea really

It's evolved beyond playing the game for a reward over playing the game for fun too. Casuals don't want to have to think about their fun, they want it on a plate for them to enjoy when they wind down at the end of the day. And hardcore players want a unique reward hard-gated by content that only they and a small amount of other people who have large amounts of available playtime can unlock.

Exactly.

But, tbh, I don't think casual players are the issue in this case. They don't play as much as hardcore players therefore they burn through the existing, Bioware-made content at a much slower pace than hardcore players. I think the problem is with hardcore players who just refuse to use their own imagination when the content runs out or when they're tired of doing the same things over and over again.

Exactly.

But, tbh, I don't think casual players are the issue in this case. They don't play as much as hardcore players therefore they burn through the existing, Bioware-made content at a much slower pace than hardcore players. I think the problem is with hardcore players who just refuse to use their own imagination when the content runs out or when they're tired of doing the same things over and over again.

It's like having a box of lego and a list of 100 things you can do with it. Spending 100 hours building all the different 100 things as fast as possible, then complaining there's nothing left to do with the lego.

Okay...here's my 2 cents. I agree that this is a great idea in principle, but seems doomed to meet exploitation as in City of Heroes. The objection was:

1. If there are rewards, players will simply farm rewards out of the system.

2. If there are NO rewards, players will never bother with it.

My solution: The Mission Creator has to PAY OUT OF POCKET to make his mission rewards available. In other words, if he wishes to award 10,000 experience, he must pay a fee (for example, 50,000 credits). If the reward is an artifact, he must supply the artifact. If the reward is money, it comes out of his own wallet.

This way, player-created missions are too costly to be exploited. But the option to make them is still available to players who have the resources and desire to create them. And there is still a REAL INCENTIVE for completing these missions.

Back in the good olds days of paper D&D people were given a basic template and set of rules and used their imagination to create content within that structure.

 

I don't see why as a community this can't be done within SWTOR without needing an official "mission creator" like has existed in other MMOs.

I remember the good old days. They were good, but now they are old.

1) this isn't the "good old days". Pen and paper D&D, LP records, 8 track tapes... etc etc... progress took them over and replaced them.

2) nothing stops you from running your own pen and paper D&D if that's what you crave. Same goes for collecting LPs.

3) As a community... players inside the game are quite capable of organizing and conducting events, group endeavors, and all manner of non-scripted non-developer driven activities. Thing is... you don't see much if any of it. Conclusion: not important enough to enough players to give a salt.

Play and MMO for what it provides you IMO. If/when it provides you something new, play it, enjoy it. Stop insisting that MMO developers address your every need, want, desire. Play multiple MMOs even.. diversify your needs across those MMOs (or other games, even old school pen and paper) that serve them.

I think TOR doesn't really lend its self to this content maybe this kind of MMO is dead. With the exception of a few guilds no one really talks (Role plays) as their character the only chat is on Vent to talk about mechanics on bosses and opps.

Also if they did do a quest maker the issue would be no voiceovers this is possible what's killed RP. That and scripted conversations with NPCs. One minute the guy is playing a cowardly sith sorcerer then suddenly the scripted conversation comes in and he sounds brave and takes command.

Player created content in TOR would probably be individual players setting their own goals which no one else knew about and I don't see it working for the masses.

Thing is... you don't see much if any of it. Conclusion: not important enough to enough players to give a salt.

 

Play and MMO for what it provides you IMO. If/when it provides you something new, play it, enjoy it. Stop insisting that MMO developers address your every need, want, desire. Play multiple MMOs even.. diversify your needs across those MMOs (or other games, even old school pen and paper) that serve them.

I'm not insisting on anything, so not sure where your last paragraph has come from, feels a bit aggressive

Yes you don't see much of non-scripted sandbox fun, the question is, why. When people moan about lack of content, or that the game is too theme park and not enough sandbox (like the beloved SWG fans banged on about for years) This thread is simply serving as a reminder to people that they have the ability to create their own fun if they want to put the effort in.

Player created content in TOR would probably be individual players setting their own goals which no one else knew about and I don't see it working for the masses.

If the playerbase was willing it could easily become a part of the community. Forum section, separate websites with challenges and trackers, people capturing picture and video evidence etc.

You can get out what you put in, but it does appear that spoonfed is what the masses want these days.

Back in the good olds days of paper D&D people were given a basic template and set of rules and used their imagination to create content within that structure.

 

I don't see why as a community this can't be done within SWTOR without needing an official "mission creator" like has existed in other MMOs.

 

It's a bit like having to jump and fight your way through hoops to get a reward, and imposing your own limits on what you have to do to get it. Ignore what content Bioware is or isn't releasing, ignore what you agree or don't agree with is on CM and ignore what other players are doing. The power is in your hands to make the game fun and challenging without expecting a skeleton development team to cater to your exact whims.

 

For example, say you want to unlock having a GTN kiosk on your ship. You could set your own mission objectives that you have to complete to be able to do it. And share that list of objectives with the rest of the community. Find a group of likeminded people and do it together. That way you are being sociable within a sociable environment, enjoying playing a Star Wars themed game, you've got a goal that you want to achieve, there's a carrot waiting for you and you work with other to achieve it and the content is new and tailored towards you.

 

An example of your own created quest chain could be:

 

1. Collect 100 of trash item x (from killing certain mobs)

2. Travel to every planet and /salute all of the cantina vendors

3. Kill a world boss with just your fists

4. Achieve legacy level 40 and Valor level 50

5. Complete a level 50 flashpoint killing every single mob

 

After you've done all these things, meet up at a certain NPC on the fleet and "claim" your reward by purchasing it.

 

The toolset is there to create our own fun.

My two cents. Although your intentions are noble you failed to mentioned an important issue. Policing. It is one thing to call for player generated content but how would Bioware monitor? How would they make sure the content doesn't include hacks? I forsee that being the major issue.

My two cents. Although your intentions are noble you failed to mentioned an important issue. Policing. It is one thing to call for player generated content but how would Bioware monitor? How would they make sure the content doesn't include hacks? I forsee that being the major issue.

I don't think any of the "quest lines" he suggested would need monitoring from Bioware, though.

I don't think any of the "quest lines" he suggested would need monitoring from Bioware, though.

Indeed.

Have I not worded the OP clearly enough?

I don't think any of the "quest lines" he suggested would need monitoring from Bioware, though.

I would of thought any player generated content would have to approved before use? Or am I missing something?

I would of thought any player generated content would have to approved before use? Or am I missing something?

I'm not on about player generated content in an in game "mission creator" sense.

I'm on about creating your own rules and rewards outside of those coded into the game.

Basically, killing stuff and "pretending" (for want of a better word) to be on a quest.

I'm not on about player generated content in an in game "mission creator" sense.

 

I'm on about creating your own rules and rewards outside of those coded into the game.

 

Basically, killing stuff and "pretending" (for want of a better word) to be on a quest.

ooookay. then what is your point? those interested in this already do it....and it's not something that would catch on outside of RP players....

I assumed you meant a mission creator type thing..because...sorry but..this already exists and is kind of a "no duh" thing to bring up that people can do.

honestly I just don't see your point when people who would be interested in this likely already do it..and there is so small an audience for it anyway

ooookay. then what is your point? those interested in this already do it....and it's not something that would catch on outside of RP players....

 

I assumed you meant a mission creator type thing..because...sorry but..this already exists and is kind of a "no duh" thing to bring up that people can do.

 

honestly I just don't see your point when people who would be interested in this likely already do it..and there is so small an audience for it anyway

But that's the funny thing. There's no reason why people shouldn't want to do it other than laziness and a desire to have content spoonfed to them rather than creating their own fun.

People complain about a lack of content or a lack of sandbox elements a lot (and have done since Beta), yet the possibility is there to create content. It's just not hard coded in to the game with a pop up dialogue box at the end.

It's also a pretty good life skill, setting your own targets and goals to achieve, and then enjoying working towards them and feeling a sense of satisfaction when done.

Back in the good olds days of paper D&D people were given a basic template and set of rules and used their imagination to create content within that structure.

 

I don't see why as a community this can't be done within SWTOR without needing an official "mission creator" like has existed in other MMOs.

 

It's a bit like having to jump and fight your way through hoops to get a reward, and imposing your own limits on what you have to do to get it. Ignore what content Bioware is or isn't releasing, ignore what you agree or don't agree with is on CM and ignore what other players are doing. The power is in your hands to make the game fun and challenging without expecting a skeleton development team to cater to your exact whims.

 

For example, say you want to unlock having a GTN kiosk on your ship. You could set your own mission objectives that you have to complete to be able to do it. And share that list of objectives with the rest of the community. Find a group of likeminded people and do it together. That way you are being sociable within a sociable environment, enjoying playing a Star Wars themed game, you've got a goal that you want to achieve, there's a carrot waiting for you and you work with other to achieve it and the content is new and tailored towards you.

 

An example of your own created quest chain could be:

 

1. Collect 100 of trash item x (from killing certain mobs)

2. Travel to every planet and /salute all of the cantina vendors

3. Kill a world boss with just your fists

4. Achieve legacy level 40 and Valor level 50

5. Complete a level 50 flashpoint killing every single mob

 

After you've done all these things, meet up at a certain NPC on the fleet and "claim" your reward by purchasing it.

 

The toolset is there to create our own fun.

If you had played in any of the games of PnP D&D me and my friends played you would not think this was a good idea.

99% of the time either the country we were playing in was destroyed or plunged into civil war, or the entire world was completely destroyed.

The other 1% of the time, the group was completely and utterly killed. Usually whilst still destroying the world/country.

This is not a good idea.

Basically because letting players contruct actual content (and by that i mean missions or storys, not just housing or cities) will inevitably lead to a horde of horribly constructed crap with maby one or two decent things in the middle of it all.

Just look at Neverwinter Nights (the original) where player created content was common. And usually complete and utter crap.

If you had played in any of the games of PnP D&D me and my friends played you would not think this was a good idea.

99% of the time either the country we were playing in was destroyed or plunged into civil war, or the entire world was completely destroyed.

The other 1% of the time, the group was completely and utterly killed. Usually whilst still destroying the world/country.

 

This is not a good idea.

Basically because letting players contruct actual content (and by that i mean missions or storys, not just housing or cities) will inevitably lead to a horde of horribly constructed crap with maby one or two decent things in the middle of it all.

Just look at Neverwinter Nights (the original) where player created content was common. And usually complete and utter crap.

I'm not talking about creating tangible content.