we have an assassin in our guild that was also able to keep up with what are statistically better classes, and we were all impressed that he was one of the few assassins that were able to pull the numbers he was pulling. when he went onto the pts to test out the new madness build, he was sorely disappointed by the new rotation and the low numbers he was getting. he has vowed to never use his assassin again. it was not because our GM said he couldn't, it was because he would be ashamed of the class he fell in love with.

i can sypathize with this as my favorite character is a scrapper scoundrel, which has the lowest dps in the game right now... however, the guild let me bring it and we were able to clear the content just fine, and i was keeping up with other classes that were statistically better dpsers than my class... and i got stealth rez's for days.

i understand having to replace you if your on the bottom of the charts and the group is hitting enrage... but until that happens, you should not be losing your raid spot.

Grump you are in Torva nex? So wed be on the same server have you noticed this on Jedi Covenant?

I'm on JC and we have one deception assassin. Since the nerf to 16-man Stormcaller and Kephess there aren't any strict dps checks in the game so it doesn't matter a lot. That being said it is preferential to bring pretty much any other dps class on live and it will get worse in 2.0.

- Madness does OK on live but looked terrible on PTS.

- Deception/madness have virtually no aoe dps to speak of. (5 target death field is an improvement I guess)

- Decepetion will be relatively better in 2.0 but has to use force cloak to maximize dps, making one of the better utilities unavailable (out of combat res).

If there are any strict dps checks in 2.0, assassins will be the first to drop. Keep in mind that a very popular dps class (powertech) will not be utterly amazing in 2.0 so there will probably be reasonable competition for raid spots. It doesn't change the fact that marauders are still the best dps class and best dps utility (bloodthirst).

@Grumpy and RLWalker

Okay so i am not the only one who has seen this too. Its a shame as i never played Sin/Shadow til recently i never seemed to put things together. They used to be all around us but now only the really good DPS ones stay (there are always TankSins around so whateve lol). I know TN is a good guild having run with you guys a few times and knowing some of your members and its good to know in general at least there are still some around. Itd be nice to see a resurgence of them in raid groups.

@dipstick

Idk is Scrapped is the worse as im now playing Advanced Prototype which is fun but so far behind my previous usage of Pyro and lower DPS than my Madness and Lethality specs. Also it seems it got a useless nerf inthe 3/14 PTS note. However, like Sins i recognize i only see DPS operatives in PvP.

Anyways thanks for the info all

Make a merc or sniper, thank me later. Every time I see we have weaker heals, ranged dps is safest option to avoid damage and focus on dsping. if you lost your spot because of changes that didn't hit live yet, then i would change that guild.

No one noticed death mark is increased? Yes, energy regen loss is a b***.

 

 

1.Good player that want's to do good raiding will adapt.

2.Don't give me that 'you don't have time to make other chars' as you seem to be hardcore raider (If you lost your spot, you have time to level )

3.wait for it to hit live, if will underperform, I'm sure class will be balanced.

4.any smart leader will take smart player over extra 5% damage.

5.rething your guild. I mean really. If I would hear that from my GL, I would hit /gquit so fast, it would make his head spin. and then again on my other 50's and other alts..

I fully agree. If your guild leader dropped you because they THINK your class possibly may not have as high of a dps percentage as it does now, and thinks that they should bring another member that probably isn't as fully adjusted to the guilds playstyle as you, he is an idiot or it was an excuse to get rid of you nicely because you as a player aren't good enough (not what I am implying btw.) So yea, if he was smart, he would have you reroll since he knows you are a good dedicated raider, if you really are, or he would at least wait till live hits and give you a chance. I have seen plenty of instances in MMOs where a class or a certain spec was theoretically placed at the bottom the dps, but a few select people still had the best dmg IN THE WORLD, with said class or spec. And #4, smart players are better than higher dps from a bad player. Pressing buttons in order is easy, knowing how to improvise the order when completing fight mechanics is harder. With that said, quitting an MMO is never a bad thing lol. This could be your lucky break!

Honestly, my take on this is that the OP is making this up. The day "hard core" marauders are getting outparsed consistently by a madness assassin is the day all marauders delete.

Anyway, call me cynical but I think he posted this just as a premature and exaggerated "nerf whine". Right now if you're in a "hardcore" guild, you've already rerolled marauder or sniper for your DPS raid toon and you're using your sin for tanking and your operative for heals.

2.0 won't change that people who won't settle for 2nd still won't settle for 2nd.

I used to be one of the top dps in my guild. I was taken to almost every HM and NM operation as melee dps. As a madness Assassin I could always out dps marauders on a single target. Then the PTS came out. Assassins got completely screwed up by Bioware. Now my guild's raid leader (and myself) have no idea how madness DPS is going to fair at level 55. Therefore, I have officially lost my raid spot. In order to get my raid spot back again I have to wait and see if the class is even viable anymore at 55 and then prove myself all over again to my guild. All confidence in my class has been shot. I am trying to figure out if I even want to continue playing this game. Thanks Bioware. You really screwed me over this time.

Then your raid leader would not be well informed on the class yes madness rotation changed. Maul is no longer viable in the rotation. Last i saw on pts on MOX parser madness was 2450 dps per sec. while deception was 2650 dps pers sec. That is not bad dps also the top dog on pts already got a nerf before 2.0 goes final. Before they closed the threads on pts there was a post of different parsers and sin was not at the bottom of the list in dps.

I wished BW could be honest about it, Assassins are strictly a PvP class and is not meant to be used in PvE. Every change to the class skills, abilities and mechanics are made with PvP in mind and that is not going to change.

From the looks of it, im not going to be able to use my Deception Assassin in an operation, Madness is out to.

 

Im not in "hardcore" progression guild, but when you know that the only thing you bring to the table is mediocre DPS and absolutley no utility whatsoever, i dont feel its fair to the other members of the group.

If that was true, then their changes makes no sense. Right now, madness is a great spec for pvp. Although not good enough to be granted guaranteed RWZ spots... but if played properly, they provide a ton to their team. In 2.0, all of that disappears. They've been reduced to AoE dotters.

As for deception? Meh. Maybe.

Honestly, my take on this is that the OP is making this up. The day "hard core" marauders are getting outparsed consistently by a madness assassin is the day all marauders delete.

 

Anyway, call me cynical but I think he posted this just as a premature and exaggerated "nerf whine". Right now if you're in a "hardcore" guild, you've already rerolled marauder or sniper for your DPS raid toon and you're using your sin for tanking and your operative for heals.

 

2.0 won't change that people who won't settle for 2nd still won't settle for 2nd.

I wish I could prove it to you but Im not making this up. Madness Assassins, when played well, can put out some good numbers. I am well aware that Marauders have parsed, do parse, and always will parse higher than Assassins. But that did not stop me from doing better single target damage. Im not saying my DPS was higher, but at the end of the boss fights I was usually on top. This is mostly due to the fact that I know how to play my class well. I can preload 1 dot, and DF from range, while Im running to my next target. Believe me or not, it doesnt matter. I just hope that my skill + the nerfed Madness Assassin can keep me in a raid spot after the expansion releases.

I wish I could prove it to you but Im not making this up. Madness Assassins, when played well, can put out some good numbers. I am well aware that Marauders have parsed, do parse, and always will parse higher than Assassins. But that did not stop me from doing better single target damage. Im not saying my DPS was higher, but at the end of the boss fights I was usually on top. This is mostly due to the fact that I know how to play my class well. I can preload 1 dot, and DF from range, while Im running to my next target. Believe me or not, it doesnt matter. I just hope that my skill + the nerfed Madness Assassin can keep me in a raid spot after the expansion releases.

It's funny how people still don't seem to understand this. Pre 2.0, a well played shadow/assassin could keep up with 99% of players in a raid dps situation if not beat them due to raid wide buffs (armor debuff, inspiration etc.) and being able to use fight mechanics to your advantage, ie. ranged pre-dots before a burn phase, spinning strike <30%. Of course on a dummy they didn't keep up because they don't have any of these things available.

Now let's all play 2.0 and test/parse/raid until we find out the real situation of our dps. Whether we are only good below 30% or not, it's probably not going to matter in the long run anyway. (now if only they increased phase walk to unlimited distance! )

I haven't played this game in a while and can't play the DLC til Sunday so I don't know what's going on yet but I will tell you my attitude towards something like this.

Now I currently play WoW and this game, I enjoy both and I have plans to continue playing them. I play a DK and a monk in WoW and to be honest I have to possibly be one of the worst DKs ever to touch the game haha but my guild still accepts me into raids and my other friend's guild usually invites me over to come help them in theirs. I don't know why but their attitude towards this is the same as mine in a sense. I may be doing lowest dps in the entire instance (sometimes I top out but that isn't common). Anyone who is still playing WoW will understand that my average 40k dps is a deserving slap in the face for a frost DK. That's not my point however, the point is we are still downing the bosses, we are still enjoying the game, and we know what we're doing and they will not abandon me regardless of how bad I do. They've improved me in ways i didn't think I could and now I am one of their top dps leads in raids and PvE events (though I can't play a DK in PvP to save my life).

This isn't a "WoW vs SwTOR Comparison" again, no, my point is that you should be enjoying the game as it is whether or not your class got nerfed. Believe me, I have friends who got the worst nerfbat for their class and they are still topping out as lead DPS in certain scenarios because they can adapt to the changes quickly no matter how bad it was hit and come back up if you just learn the new rotations/talents. A nerfbat won't last long and pretty soon, I guarantee people will complain about Assassins doing OMGNERF dps. It's just a matter of adaptation, it's been like that ever since MMOs were released and stuff like this happens all the time. Just relax and be passionate about your class, you stuck with it for so long so you should dedicate yourselves to play it through the rough. I play an Assassin too, and I've played Deception ever since I hit 50 and never switched. I've never been called out for being a terrible DPS when assassins were nerfed way back when and it didn't bother me at all.

He is right about Madness Assassins' DPS potential. I don't think it continued with scaling, but there was a point where madness assassins output more theoretical DPS in sims than any other spec of any class. Stands to reason that, played well, he could put up very high numbers.

TC, here's my advice to you: the enrage timers and mechanics in this game, assuming proper gear (and itemization matters more than gear "level"), are not so tight that, in 2.0 terms, a group without 2 annimaras (highest melee parse), 1 lightning sorc (2nd highest range parse, most range aoe) and 1 arsenal merc (highest range parse, armor debuff) can't complete the content and complete it easily (assuming the players are skilled).

If your guild is actually chucking you over a theoretical class nerf that isn't going to make progression impossible (or even difficult), they've got no attachment to you as a person. Do you really want to spend so much time in any given week with people like that? I wouldn't.

So here's what you do. You reroll a class that interests you in a role you're not used to playing. But not in guild. With that toon, you shop around. Find another progression guild that recruits lowbies. If by the time you hit 55, your current guild still won't give you a shot, you start raiding with the new toon in that one. Don't like them? Drop guild. Advertise on the forums or the fleet as an experienced, but less-than-ideally geared MMO player (mdps 4/4 NiM EC, etc). Or do warzones unguilded. If you're good enough, you'll get noticed. Do test runs with other guilds.

You'll find another progression guild that isn't so quick to disregard a skilled player just because he's of a class that's perceived as sub-optimal. And hey, maybe they will like you instead of being a bunch of ******es who see you as a hamburgering widget instead of a person.

When you find a fit, pull your toons out of your current guild and into the new one and forget about the old people as they forgot about you.

if you were topping the dps charts your other dps we're just bad, cause that shouldn't be possible

Everyone who says this is obviously someone who just went full retard... Hasn't it occurred to you that there are actually amazing players out there who do crazy things? Saying that they're bad isn't an excuse. Mabye the assassin dps is just better than the other dps out there..... Moron.

you loose a spot cause you getting a nerf.

 

nice guild m8, shows they support you alot

if they are a hardcore raiding guild then yea thats how it is! they'll probably lossen up once everything is on farm

Everyone who says this is obviously someone who just went full retard... Hasn't it occurred to you that there are actually amazing players out there who do crazy things? Saying that they're bad isn't an excuse. Mabye the assassin dps is just better than the other dps out there..... Moron.

Clearly, PvP rank doesn't require much game knowledge.

Assassins aren't terribad, but assuming the mara isn't the one going full 'tard, they typically will be at the top in DPS & definitely not under sins. If this guy was at the top of the charts in his 'hardcore' raid guild, then the rest of the dps was pretty sub-par & they're about as hardcore as my 7yo son's leveling guild in WoW. It's not about amazing players doing crazy things (though that certainly helps), it's just the toolset limitations on the class and basic math comprehension.

Sins were never routinely beating maras, hasn't changed since the patch. This guild = baddies being bad imo.