Dawginole Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) You increased damage in wz's in 2.0 by 60% and did not reduce stun duration. Ops mainly, and another class or two are stun locking with one stun and burning down players with 30k health before they ever come out of stun. At some point your unbalanced game becomes unenjoyable for even the most hardcore of us to keep queuing. You're teaching how to min/max a marauder, yet you can't beat a concealment operative? That just doesn't add up. As the above poster said, looks like you need to learn to counter the class. Obviously you've never even died once in wz's and your breakers are always off CD. So I wasn't referencing the BAMF WZ Achievement winners like yourself. It's really weird, I think it's glitched somehow. On my operative, sometimes I can stunlock people with knockdown + stun, then burn them down to 30% hp, other times, can't stunlock them at all. This is including when they break cc the first time. On the receiving end, on my operative, I can usually break free, instantly stand up without issue. On my sniper/gunslinger, for some reason no matter when I break cc, the animation of me standing up is still playing before I regain control to do anything. Never been burned down from 100-0% hp during a stunlock though. Though, I've done it to others, before 2.0, likely people in recruit gear, since they only had 13k hp. Had one really Really hilarious experience a long time ago. I was in voidstar, stealthed up to the first door as attackers, saw 1 jugg guarding (14k hp), then saw a sin stealthed next to him. I quickly opened up on the jugg, finished him before he could stand up, saw the sin sorta flinch/move slightly, then target me, but I just stealthed out normally before he even attacked. Then I opened up on him, killed him, then planted. good times. Haven't had that easy of a job since 2.0 though, since now all the health pools are like 25-45k hp. Hey, look! A rational, thoughtful post! Thank you for that! Edited May 11, 2013 by Dawginole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankqull Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) learn your enemys, no class is able to kill you within one stun. none! both stealther need under best circumstances 6-8 GCD to take someone down = 9-12 sec you´ll need to use several stuns to cover that time. if you are unable to use your stunbreaker in that time you are either out of luck as it is on cooldown, your enemy shows his skill by choosing the right target, or you are not as skilled as you think ´cause you didnt find your stun breaker. /thread Edited May 11, 2013 by Tankqull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 You're teaching how to min/max a marauder, yet you can't beat a concealment operative? That just doesn't add up. As the above poster said, looks like you need to learn to counter the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarimath Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 You're teaching how to min/max a marauder, yet you can't beat a concealment operative? That just doesn't add up. As the above poster said, looks like you need to learn to counter the class. This one, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacito Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 You increased damage in wz's in 2.0 by 60% and did not reduce stun duration. Ops mainly, and another class or two are stun locking with one stun and burning down players with 30k health before they ever come out of stun. At some point your unbalanced game becomes unenjoyable for even the most hardcore of us to keep queuing. Okay, let's first state your main complains: Operative is using one stunWithin the duration of that one stun, they subtract 30k health from your character, thus killing you Now we're of course not talking about undergeared and soft targets, so the operative has 60% damage increase and his target (you) has 37.5% damage decrease. Since the operative can't even hope to deal 30k damage without Hidden Strike, let's also assume that he's using both the knockdown stun and his regular stun on you, for a total stun duration of 5.5 seconds. Now, let's first calculate your damage reduction against his damage increase. 1.6 * 0.625 = 1 So your damage reduction effectively cancels his damage increase, and he deals as much damage to you as if neither of you had any expertise. Effective health before any class effects is thus still 30k. Now let's look at the time. 5.5 seconds of you being stunned, starting with a Hidden Strike/Acid Blade combo. To keep you stunned continously, he needs to immediately follow up on that with Debilitate. Basically neglectable damage, a base GCD of 1.5 seconds, 2.5 seconds of stun remaining. Those 2.5 seconds are enough for 2 abilites, neither of which can be another Hidden Strike, due to cooldown. All in all, to burst you down within those 5.5 seconds, with Hidden Strike/Acid Blade, Debilitate, Explosive Probe and Backstab (highest possible damage abilities within the time), he needs to deal 30k damage. This is... unlikely. To say the least. Basically, he needs to crit for around 9k with every ability, with Acid Blade dealing the remaining damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillun Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) You increased damage in wz's in 2.0 by 60% and did not reduce stun duration. Ops mainly, and another class or two are stun locking with one stun and burning down players with 30k health before they ever come out of stun. At some point your unbalanced game becomes unenjoyable for even the most hardcore of us to keep queuing. You play a Mara and you are complaining about operatives? <delete> Edited May 11, 2013 by CommunityDroidDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 i've still to get killed by an op/scoundrel burst from full health..another thing is if they catch you wounded or with stun breaker on cd..if you pop it when you are not at full resolve or on flash grenade(which breaks on damage) you deserve to die.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soapland Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 You increased damage in wz's in 2.0 by 60% and did not reduce stun duration. Ops mainly, and another class or two are stun locking with one stun and burning down players with 30k health before they ever come out of stun. At some point your unbalanced game becomes unenjoyable for even the most hardcore of us to keep queuing. Yes ops and sins can be devastating to classes like sorcs/sages. But please stop talking about this 60% damage increase in wzs as if it's a problem. Damage reduction was increased to match damage boost, so this is a non-issue, wear your pvp gear to pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seireeni Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 I did this with my scrapper scoundrel before 2.0 if I was lucky and do it in 2.0 if I am lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeJagoff Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 You increased damage in wz's in 2.0 by 60% and did not reduce stun duration. Ops mainly, and another class or two are stun locking with one stun and burning down players with 30k health before they ever come out of stun. At some point your unbalanced game becomes unenjoyable for even the most hardcore of us to keep queuing. It's really weird, I think it's glitched somehow. On my operative, sometimes I can stunlock people with knockdown + stun, then burn them down to 30% hp, other times, can't stunlock them at all. This is including when they break cc the first time. On the receiving end, on my operative, I can usually break free, instantly stand up without issue. On my sniper/gunslinger, for some reason no matter when I break cc, the animation of me standing up is still playing before I regain control to do anything. Never been burned down from 100-0% hp during a stunlock though. Though, I've done it to others, before 2.0, likely people in recruit gear, since they only had 13k hp. Had one really Really hilarious experience a long time ago. I was in voidstar, stealthed up to the first door as attackers, saw 1 jugg guarding (14k hp), then saw a sin stealthed next to him. I quickly opened up on the jugg, finished him before he could stand up, saw the sin sorta flinch/move slightly, then target me, but I just stealthed out normally before he even attacked. Then I opened up on him, killed him, then planted. good times. Haven't had that easy of a job since 2.0 though, since now all the health pools are like 25-45k hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsakenKing Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 yay! we are back to the "nerf oprative" threads lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobyDigital Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 you increased damage in wz's in 2.0 by 60% and did not reduce stun duration. Ops mainly, and another class or two are stun locking with one stun and burning down players with 30k health before they ever come out of stun. At some point your unbalanced game becomes unenjoyable for even the most hardcore of us to keep queuing. bad pvpers thats that **** i don like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alundo Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 "I can't kill this one because im bad, nerf!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 You're teaching how to min/max a marauder, yet you can't beat a concealment operative? That just doesn't add up. As the above poster said, looks like you need to learn to counter the class. Good post, did chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 learn your enemys, no class is able to kill you within one stun. none! both stealther need under best circumstances 6-8 GCD to take someone down = 9-12 sec you´ll need to use several stuns to cover that time. if you are unable to use your stunbreaker in that time you are either out of luck as it is on cooldown, your enemy shows his skill by choosing the right target, or you are not as skilled as you think ´cause you didnt find your stun breaker. /threadAnd just how do you tell if a person's stunbreaker is on CD, oh wise one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaingSkiratapwns Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Shadow maybe, but if you are having problems with an operative....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveSirRobin Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 The only thing I can think of is that he didn't follow his advice and is rolling around in wzs in full lvl 20 greens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 And just how do you tell if a person's stunbreaker is on CD, oh wise one? are you asking from the perspective of an operative, or the victim? the victim need's not worry about anything, only frolicking in the flowers and grass waiting to be ambushed. This would be you. As an operative, you don't need to stunlock people, you should be fine enough interrupting and LoSing with roll for ranged and kiting melee down w/ sever tendon and snipe and your ability to roll to cover (That is, the take cover ability). An operative in the hands of a skilled player is a real big monster. Then again, I guess every class is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 You increased damage in wz's in 2.0 by 60% and did not reduce stun duration. Ops mainly, and another class or two are stun locking with one stun and burning down players with 30k health before they ever come out of stun. You're talking about the 60% from expertise ? You know that the defensive part of Expertise is here so that you don't feel any difference from the case none of you have Expertise ? If not, now you do. And so I hope you understand that as defensive and offensive part grow simultaneously, all changes done to Expertise about maximum percentage of offensive part will imply a change the defensive part altogether, and will never change anything in PvPgeared vs PvPgeared people, and so it will never require any change of stun duration... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Feed me moar of your tears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidsyrup Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 This is such an L2P issue for the OP. Operatives/Scoundrels have a 4 second CC like most classes, AKA the one you don't use your breaker on, and they have a 8 second like most classes, AKA the one you do break. Just because they go Concealment/Scrapper and have a 100% chance to knock you flat on your face for 1.5 seconds does not mean they have more CC's or that they need nerfed. And I have never had an Op/Scoundrel take me down to 30% HP in 4 seconds. And the moment they hit you while on the 8 second stun you're out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODTONE Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) the op is right you have no idea... do the math you want, live its annoying as hell.. depends on the class but some classes a scoundrel/ ops can kill you before you even manage to do something, that dumb animation and then run behind you + lag youre basically just trying to get up and then spin around.. the programming is horrible to counter them for some classes classes that depend on hiding and stuns suck anyways and attract those kind of dumb players... stuns need to go so we can pvp not watch shake and bake lag stun freaks.. scoundrel / ops cloakers have been the most annoying thing since beta for some classes. the only people who care for their crappy stuff are players who use it and cant play without fighting in pvp alone against a player, who always need an advantage cause they suck, if you want to stun lock go play a game thats single player.. and let "player" back into pvp Edited May 12, 2013 by ODTONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_ruiz Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) yay! we are back to the "nerf oprative" threads lol Too lazy to read through all the pages... I did however read the OP. Why does this seem like a post that was made in the first week of launch? Remember when we could SF twice and still stun once after that? Point is... We've already been nerfed. Edited May 12, 2013 by mr_ruiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrekxxx Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 You increased damage in wz's in 2.0 by 60% and did not reduce stun duration. Ops mainly, and another class or two are stun locking with one stun and burning down players with 30k health before they ever come out of stun. At some point your unbalanced game becomes unenjoyable for even the most hardcore of us to keep queuing. Obviously you've never even died once in wz's and your breakers are always off CD. So I wasn't referencing the BAMF WZ Achievement winners like yourself. Hey, look! A rational, thoughtful post! Thank you for that! l2p issue ... all classes have some form of stuns ... just live with it ... i would like to see game without stuns also, but they have to revamp all classes to remove some stuns and make game more enjoyable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawginole Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) LOL at all the "l2p" noobs. The game is paper, rock, scissors right now. Operative is the rock to Sentinels scissors. If an Op comes out of stealth and knocks me down and has taken 50% of my life by the time I stand up at which point the Op does the back stab stun and then proceeds to knock the other 50% off and I'm dead, EXACTLY WHAT WAS I SUPPOSED TO DO IN YOUR LEARN TO PLAY SCENARIO? Of course you're going to say stun break. But the other 15 noobs in this thread already stated that you don't stun break until your resolve bar is full. i.e. All of you saying this doesn't happen are full of crap. Edited May 12, 2013 by Dawginole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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