The whole class is built for kiting. Force speed, sever force, knockback at range in a cone, 4 second stun, force slow, force lift are all aids to kiting.

 

If you are not using them to kite what are you doing? Just standing still? We are not an immobile turret class. Just so happens that our main attacks are channeled and rely on procs. But yes we can kite and I do it all the time.

OK, let's explain this for you. A kiter should have tools to match an anti kiter.

So, carnage marauder.

Gap closer. Not one but two short CD roots, a third root. AoE instant mez, stun, 15% speed buff at all times. Group long duration large speed buff.

Stealth with speed buff. A longer laster snare that also happens to have no CD.

Oh- and, only two abilities that make you stand still to use, both of which also root or stun your target.

Sorcs aren't a kiting class- a kiting class is a frost mage- a real escape that removes CC, fast movement, stealth, ability to constantly apply snares and roots, and top notch damage on top of that as well as defensive abilities.

You cannot call a class a kiting class we they can't even perma snare- especially when almost every 'non-kiting' class in the game can perma snare, and most have baseline roots and baseline gap closers to top it off.

The whole class is built for kiting. Force speed, sever force, knockback at range in a cone, 4 second stun, force slow, force lift are all aids to kiting.

 

If you are not using them to kite what are you doing? Just standing still? We are not an immobile turret class. Just so happens that our main attacks are channeled and rely on procs. But yes we can kite and I do it all the time.

Funny that all our DPS abilities that proc our instant abilites are casted. As a healer I can kite forever unless I get zerged. As DPS, well it's not even worth it anymore. DPS is slow, with little burst, and we get to be the squishiest class.

Post above me sums up the rest of my thoughts.

Survivability isnt an issue but some burst would have been nice. I really hated the changes to our stun range and the knockback but I've gotten used to them. That said, I don't want any other crazy changes, especially if they touch something no one has complained about. I definitely wouldnt want a new ability, I'm already using around 25 on a game to game basis, so every change should be a buff to existing mechanics.

And yes, kiting is passé. It's better to just stand there and take the hits while you stun back to back. That way you might get some procs from FL. If you run you're just going to give away a free leap or get snared.

OK, let's explain this for you. A kiter should have tools to match an anti kiter.

 

So, carnage marauder.

 

Gap closer. Not one but two short CD roots, a third root. AoE instant mez, stun, 15% speed buff at all times. Group long duration large speed buff.

 

Stealth with speed buff. A longer laster snare that also happens to have no CD.

 

Oh- and, only two abilities that make you stand still to use, both of which also root or stun your target.

 

Sorcs aren't a kiting class- a kiting class is a frost mage- a real escape that removes CC, fast movement, stealth, ability to constantly apply snares and roots, and top notch damage on top of that as well as defensive abilities.

 

You cannot call a class a kiting class we they can't even perma snare- especially when almost every 'non-kiting' class in the game can perma snare, and most have baseline roots and baseline gap closers to top it off.

So this is because you cant kite a mara?

That is the meta game, they keep us in melee range we try and keep our distance, we rely on our team mates, we los, we rely on guards and peels, but we have to be able to kite ourselves. If your not able to kite on this class, play a different class, thats why we have the tools we do.

Last time I looked I had a root on low cooldown and a snare.

We are supposed to kite and los to stay alive, hence why we have mobility on 20 seconds, a shield, snares, roots, mezzes and stuns.

A frost mage also had a pet? Do we need one of those to be kiters to? It's not rocket science.

Listen man, I understand your concern but the Sage DPS is very viable. In fact, it can be quite devastating. Today, I did 920k damage (1008 Damage per second) in a warzone, and dwarfed everyone in damage on Voidstar and I am still learning things to make my gear and rotation better. And no, I didn't just spam weaken mind (affliction) all over the place (I actually think that's a very tough way to generate damage).

I'm not saying this to brag (well... kinda I have worked very hard on my sage after all ) but the whole purpose of the sage/ sorc DPS is to exhaust an enemy healer's energy/ force. If they are being pounded on by a melee or two (which they should be), it is very very tough for them to keep their team up with the raw damage of a sage or a sorc bein exerted. I think that it's just how you perceive that class that is creating shortcomings. The sage/sorc is not meant to run up to the front lines and start pounding on the healer. That's a sure way to get yourself killed (which doesn't benefit anyone). Yes, I know melee like to jump on ya at the beginning of a match. Just kind of hang back for a few seconds and let things develop in front of you. You're gonna die a few times every match... Everyone does.

Idk, maybe I'm wrong/ stupid, but the Sage DPS is my main (I've had the game since March), and that's how I perceive class being the most beneficial to a team.

Listen man, I understand your concern but the Sage DPS is very viable. In fact, it can be quite devastating. Today, I did 920k damage (1008 Damage per second) in a warzone, and dwarfed everyone in damage on Voidstar and I am still learning things to make my gear and rotation better. And no, I didn't just spam weaken mind (affliction) all over the place (I actually think that's a very tough way to generate damage).

 

I'm not saying this to brag (well... kinda I have worked very hard on my sage after all ) but the whole purpose of the sage/ sorc DPS is to exhaust an enemy healer's energy/ force. If they are being pounded on by a melee or two (which they should be), it is very very tough for them to keep their team up with the raw damage of a sage or a sorc bein exerted. I think that it's just how you perceive that class that is creating shortcomings. The sage/sorc is not meant to run up to the front lines and start pounding on the healer. That's a sure way to get yourself killed (which doesn't benefit anyone). Yes, I know melee like to jump on ya at the beginning of a match. Just kind of hang back for a few seconds and let things develop in front of you. You're gonna die a few times every match... Everyone does.

 

Idk, maybe I'm wrong/ stupid, but the Sage DPS is my main (I've had the game since March), and that's how I perceive class being the most beneficial to a team.

Whats your stats? Sitting on about 920 bonus damage, 31% crit, 78% surge, 3% alac.Crit 5k once on deathfield, record damage about 760k. But that is when there lots of healers on other team.

Burst is still crap.

So we can kite one target we're just fine in PvP? Lol please kids.

If any 2 targets get on us we're chain rooted/stunned into the ground and usually dropped in about 6 seconds if we can't run.

And wo we kite someone.. we can't do too much dmg while running... And while kiting we're offering no help to a team in PvP.

3 of the most powerful classes in the game, jugg/mara/assasin, have great escape abilities and defensive cooldowns... Sorcs.. the squishiest class has none....

If I outskill my melee opponent in wh gear and kite perfectly it would take me almost a minute to kill them.. whereas them having full melee range uptime on me I'd be killed in about 10 seconds... Sorcs need to be able to put out dangerous amounts of burst when we do get that distance for a short time.

So all u stooges can say we're fine due to our ability to kite ONE PERSON.. but while kiting our dps, heals and overall usefullness to the team disappears..

Sorcs need ranged burst equivolent to snipers

lightning/ tk is the only spec that needs a buff balance/madness is extremely viable you can one on one any class in the game.

when i spec balanced I do at least 100k more dmg

Listen man, I understand your concern but the Sage DPS is very viable. In fact, it can be quite devastating. Today, I did 920k damage (1008 Damage per second) in a warzone, and dwarfed everyone in damage on Voidstar and I am still learning things to make my gear and rotation better. And no, I didn't just spam weaken mind (affliction) all over the place (I actually think that's a very tough way to generate damage).

 

I'm not saying this to brag (well... kinda I have worked very hard on my sage after all ) but the whole purpose of the sage/ sorc DPS is to exhaust an enemy healer's energy/ force. If they are being pounded on by a melee or two (which they should be), it is very very tough for them to keep their team up with the raw damage of a sage or a sorc bein exerted. I think that it's just how you perceive that class that is creating shortcomings. The sage/sorc is not meant to run up to the front lines and start pounding on the healer. That's a sure way to get yourself killed (which doesn't benefit anyone). Yes, I know melee like to jump on ya at the beginning of a match. Just kind of hang back for a few seconds and let things develop in front of you. You're gonna die a few times every match... Everyone does.

 

Idk, maybe I'm wrong/ stupid, but the Sage DPS is my main (I've had the game since March), and that's how I perceive class being the most beneficial to a team.

You really ought not to have posted this. The fact you did large amounts of damage is testament to your failure.

There is something called effective damage, the damage dealt that was not healed. If you killed 20 enemies solo you should have dealt around 400K damage. If you go over that it means your damage was healed and ineffective.

If you are topping the damage charts without the kills to back it up you are a terrible. The person below you sitting at 200-300K damage probably did most of the killing.

The scariest or most skilled sorcerers are the ones ranging anywhere from 250-450K depending on the number of kills that occurred during the match. They don't have a high average damage per second because they've got 20+ seconds of downtime while their enemies respawn.

So this is because you cant kite a mara?

 

That is the meta game, they keep us in melee range we try and keep our distance, we rely on our team mates, we los, we rely on guards and peels, but we have to be able to kite ourselves. If your not able to kite on this class, play a different class, thats why we have the tools we do.

 

Last time I looked I had a root on low cooldown and a snare.

 

We are supposed to kite and los to stay alive, hence why we have mobility on 20 seconds, a shield, snares, roots, mezzes and stuns.

 

A frost mage also had a pet? Do we need one of those to be kiters to? It's not rocket science.

I can jump on any melee class and keep you from kiting me in this game- and easily at that.

You're right, it isn't rocket science- the lack of ability to perma snare and no baseline root. You don't have snares, roots, mezzes and stuns- do you even play this class? You can at most have ONE root, ONE instant snare that is half the duration of its CD, ONE mez that can be made instant- one stun with the potential now of a bubble stun that'll be nerfed. This all puts us below what most classes can do.

The bubble protects from an average of one crit- many crits now can do up to 3-4k damage on top of popping it.

If you compare what we have for kiting versus what other classes have for anti kiting- we come up short.

Our damage is short, we've no defensives, our ability to handle objectives is weak, we have no extra CC avoidance beyond healers getting root protection on their speed. We're losing our group utility when they take away the stun bubble, we have no mobile casting, we're easy to purge and nullify what little damage we can do, we can't pressure healers, we aren't clearing nodes/doors before people respawn.

You seem to think we have something unique and valuable for pvp because we're able to run away and hide behind pillars? You sound like a fantastic player- anyone can hide behind a pillar, I can hide behind a pillar as a marauder- but I can also run into a group of two, kill them without letting them heal, take their node before they respawn and slaughter them as they arrive on speeders back to the node. I can also proc combo a defender in seconds as a PT. I can mez someone and stealth cap, or just kill them outright on a sin, then stealth protect the node for half a minute without even really engaging in combat- giving my team lots of time to back me up.

But you can hide behind a pillar- so, when you get stunned or mezzed back there, and someone starts to cap on the other side of the node- do you ever feel like an idiot for being so far from the objective that you cannot get off an interrupting cast even if you CC break because you'll easily be stunned again? What do you do in the WZ that don't have easy hump pillars near objectives? Do you just not play near the objectives and say 'well I survived, I'm gooood'?

Are you one of those sorcs that plays in the middle of nowhere and runs at the first sign of trouble rather than trying to help your team?

lightning/ tk is the only spec that needs a buff balance/madness is extremely viable you can one on one any class in the game.

 

when i spec balanced I do at least 100k more dmg

So what's your RWZ rating using this wonder spec?

I saw some sorcs do over 1million damage in a WZ, so stop complaining and start learning to play.

 

Most sorcs are just super bad, they sit there and shoot their lightning at the Marauder while face tanking gored ravage and wonder *** just happened....

If that Sorc did a million damage then he was playing against scrubs. Whenever I'm in a WZ I am focused the entire match. The only thing I can do Is hope my stun bubble pops before I die so I can run (and pray that I can get heals). Because I can't stand toe to toe with any class but other Sorc's and under-geared ranged classes.

Whats your stats? Sitting on about 920 bonus damage, 31% crit, 78% surge, 3% alac.Crit 5k once on deathfield, record damage about 760k. But that is when there lots of healers on other team.

 

Burst is still crap.

To the guy who whined about "effective damage."you are bad. The other team had three healers and I had the most kills on the team by far and killing blows. L2P.

Now, to the guy I quoted.. My stats are roughly the same as yours. I use kind of an oddball rotation and switch targets a lot based on which of my teammates need help burning someone down. And in one vs. one, I do quite well. Idk how to explain it. I just play based off the situation. My tele throw hits between 1275 and 1350 on crits. I also have

1300+ Expertise and close to 2000 Willpower. The best thing to do is generate as much dps as possible to ramp up the self healing armor so that when a mara/melee attacks you, you can dispatch them with ease.

Tempted to put this in my sig.

Well its kind of true, Too powerful in beta then just fine at game launch then Nerfed. They were only balanced for about 3 months out of the 2 and a half years this game has been public.

Tempted to put this in my sig.

Lol

So we can kite one target we're just fine in PvP? Lol please kids.

If any 2 targets get on us we're chain rooted/stunned into the ground and usually dropped in about 6 seconds if we can't run.

And wo we kite someone.. we can't do too much dmg while running... And while kiting we're offering no help to a team in PvP.

3 of the most powerful classes in the game, jugg/mara/assasin, have great escape abilities and defensive cooldowns... Sorcs.. the squishiest class has none....

If I outskill my melee opponent in wh gear and kite perfectly it would take me almost a minute to kill them.. whereas them having full melee range uptime on me I'd be killed in about 10 seconds... Sorcs need to be able to put out dangerous amounts of burst when we do get that distance for a short time.

 

So all u stooges can say we're fine due to our ability to kite ONE PERSON.. but while kiting our dps, heals and overall usefullness to the team disappears..

 

Sorcs need ranged burst equivolent to snipers

I have never at any point in this thread said that sages are "fine". All I have said is that we are meant to kite, which we are supposed to and can do. What I did say was our damage is sustained and not bursty enough on fob.

To the guy who whined about "effective damage."you are bad. The other team had three healers and I had the most kills on the team by far and killing blows. L2P.

 

Now, to the guy I quoted.. My stats are roughly the same as yours. I use kind of an oddball rotation and switch targets a lot based on which of my teammates need help burning someone down. And in one vs. one, I do quite well. Idk how to explain it. I just play based off the situation. My tele throw hits between 1275 and 1350 on crits. I also have

1300+ Expertise and close to 2000 Willpower. The best thing to do is generate as much dps as possible to ramp up the self healing armor so that when a mara/melee attacks you, you can dispatch them with ease.

I play the same way in balance - dots and fob to increase the damage, i dot really use project much at all anymore, I find this uses far too much force in this spec where force issues are a problem. Still only managed 760k but again that was when other team had alot of heals.

I can jump on any melee class and keep you from kiting me in this game- and easily at that.

 

You're right, it isn't rocket science- the lack of ability to perma snare and no baseline root. You don't have snares, roots, mezzes and stuns- do you even play this class? You can at most have ONE root, ONE instant snare that is half the duration of its CD, ONE mez that can be made instant- one stun with the potential now of a bubble stun that'll be nerfed. This all puts us below what most classes can do.

 

The bubble protects from an average of one crit- many crits now can do up to 3-4k damage on top of popping it.

 

If you compare what we have for kiting versus what other classes have for anti kiting- we come up short.

 

Our damage is short, we've no defensives, our ability to handle objectives is weak, we have no extra CC avoidance beyond healers getting root protection on their speed. We're losing our group utility when they take away the stun bubble, we have no mobile casting, we're easy to purge and nullify what little damage we can do, we can't pressure healers, we aren't clearing nodes/doors before people respawn.

 

You seem to think we have something unique and valuable for pvp because we're able to run away and hide behind pillars? You sound like a fantastic player- anyone can hide behind a pillar, I can hide behind a pillar as a marauder- but I can also run into a group of two, kill them without letting them heal, take their node before they respawn and slaughter them as they arrive on speeders back to the node. I can also proc combo a defender in seconds as a PT. I can mez someone and stealth cap, or just kill them outright on a sin, then stealth protect the node for half a minute without even really engaging in combat- giving my team lots of time to back me up.

 

But you can hide behind a pillar- so, when you get stunned or mezzed back there, and someone starts to cap on the other side of the node- do you ever feel like an idiot for being so far from the objective that you cannot get off an interrupting cast even if you CC break because you'll easily be stunned again? What do you do in the WZ that don't have easy hump pillars near objectives? Do you just not play near the objectives and say 'well I survived, I'm gooood'?

 

Are you one of those sorcs that plays in the middle of nowhere and runs at the first sign of trouble rather than trying to help your team?

I find your assumptions amusing. Really? This is your argument?

How many mezz, stuns, roots do you need to keep one melee at bay? Jesus.

I find your assumptions amusing. Really? This is your argument?

 

How many mezz, stuns, roots do you need to keep one melee at bay? Jesus.

How many roots, leaps, stuns, mezzes do you need to keep one ranged in melee? Jesus.

Where's your argument exactly?

You guys really need to stop nagging about survivability and lack of defensive CD'es. Do you really want to be stuck with another ability that brings nothing to the team? Because that's probably what it's going to be like. We have to settle with some silly 1 minute defensive CD, despite that we pretty much need it in every encounter (to be able to dps in full, surviving alone is not a problem atm...it's just that running isnt killing anyone) , all while the burst and crappy force management for balance/madness stays the same. They should just give us the pre-1.2 tools, it would have been far from OP in the current enviroment.

Speaking of force management, it makes little to no sense that balance/madness, which are supposed to kite, can't use project/shock on every CD without running out of force in 60 secs.

A fair trade would be to get rid of the bubble stun, when thrown on other people, for a 15-20 % damage buff across the board and the force costs cut in half. The key is to buff existing and passive abilites. We don't need more button mashing.

Oh well, we'll see if they have any surprises in store for 1.6. I can live with "no changes" but if they're getting rid of the bubble stun without any form of compensation they're losing atleast one sub.

his mains are a marauder and powertech LOL

 

yea man im sure u like sorcs just as they are

Lol!

He only have OP pvp classes...And Powertech is stupidly OP, what the hell BW was thinking when made the class ? As a Sorcerer its almost impossible defeat a Powertech..

I dont see it fair what as a light armor DPS class with full warhero gear can be killed with one stun,flsh duration. I have resived over 10k hits from ranged and melee. The greated hit I have been able to do is 3k. Even the sorceres would have 4 cc:more its not balanced. At least TB should do 4-5k with longed cd maybe. I have played almost all the classes and most of them do much better with blue gear. PvP is all about burst damage. Maybe Sorcerer would be better if they would give us the real BG:s like 64 players.

And I dont understand you mainstream wow players who support everything blizz does I think the whole resilience/expertice stat is needed. 10-49 wz is 100 times more fun. And also they should have ranked wz as simply cant join as group.

PS: e.g today I resiver hits from silgle smugler 5k + 4k +4k combo... Thats really fair...