What I'm really gearing towards is the city and fleet arguments, where all parties involved are clearly just sitting around, not in battle, and trying to argue about the effectiveness of a Sorcerer, or something of that nature.

 

 

 

Whether or not I am an "Elite College Grad" or whether or not I work at Starbucks is not the issue. If "nobody" cared then the argument would not exist. I wouldn't see it every day. I wouldn't be annotating research studies about the effect of texting and computer literacy on academic literacy (there are thousands).

 

I'm simply saying that if someone uses poor grammar than there is a strong likelihood that they did not or have not been in a situation that has asked them to do so. If you're suggesting by your highly antagonistic statement that you did not go to college or are not asked in your daily life to use proper grammar, then your very post supports the previous statement.

 

If you -have- gone to college and -are- asked to type professionally on a daily basis, my question is why wouldn't you, especially in a forum where you clearly have enough time to formulate an opinion.

 

Neither event is an attack on you or anyone else

it appears that comprehension or critical thinking doesn't apply that much in english classes. you should have taken philosophy instead. yes, i went to college, which is why i think your ideas are hilarious. take this paragraph i'm writing right now, for instance. if i were to have written this statement in a word processor, the type one uses when writing formally for a paper, my sentences and the pronoun "i" would be automatically capitalized. however, because this is the internet, along with the fact that i honestly do not care for such formalities in casual communication, preferring to harbor intelligent ideas within my walls of text instead of a blind adherence to The Rules, i find myself and many others writing in this casual manner.

while we all want to get our points across using our language, there are limits in protocol that are socially acceptable in The Real World. you are basically "that guy" who thinks too highly of himself, and would be caught wearing a suit in a fast food establishment (your eventual place of work).

this amazing realization is what you have failed to grasp in your pretentious drivel. grammar isn't as important as syntax. your claim would have more merit if it regarded the structure of one's sentences, and not the petty details that a teacher's assistant worries about.

more concisely, and as stated previously: you are a nerfherder.

*cough* It's actually TL;DR *cough*

You were saying?

OP, you are a nerfherder who thinks his college education is actually of importance. maybe when you get out of school and enter the real world, you'll realize the cold hard truth: nobody cares, especially on The Internet.

 

since you sound like a stuffy english major, i'll help you out here: i'd like a grande mocha, with a twist of soy milk. thanks.

 

edit: i'd like a bit of foam on top, as well. thanks again!

Awesome post!

As for the OP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect.

True intelligence is the ability to communicate on a multitude of levels adapting to find solutions.. but have fun with your manuals.

Its just a game people play to relax and even to get a bit stupid from time to time.

Its funny because most of the brilliant and successful people i know write like if they are still in the sixth grade, this is why they have secretaries or somebody and even a team sometimes that handles all the public or professional documentation.

People are shallow. Beside I have fat fingers a bumb leg and a hairlip, I'm also a dwarf.

And I really didn't understand the question! Dee Dee Dee!

(Hobbles off to eat pig jowels and punch babies)

If you -have- gone to college and -are- asked to type professionally on a daily basis, my question is why wouldn't you, especially in a forum where you clearly have enough time to formulate an opinion.

I'll field this one.

I've been to college, spent 8 years in college, beginning over 20 years ago, and for what they're worth, I hold advanced degrees in mathematics, computers, psychology, and more recently business management.

Through the years after college, I have written research papers, articles for technical journals, engineering documents, instruction manuals, and probably more reports and papers than I care to recount.

Among the things I've learned through those years, is that most of my college professors existed safely ensconced within their towers of academia, spouting reams of self-aggrandizing propaganda, and then unleashing into the world their annual torrents of adoring sycophants, who've each spent the last several years hanging upon their every word in wide-eyed astonishment of every syllable their professors have uttered - and then we hire one of them and I have to spend the next 6 to 8 months of my life de-programming and educating them on how the actual world operates.

That is one of the things I've learned.

Another is that there are multiple dialects of language, and it's always best and proper to speak to your audience, and neither to speak over, or under, that audience if you want to find acceptance. Certainly, I can spout technical jargon, or I can create a post that would both take 20 minutes to read, and bore senseless every reader; but that is not my audience.

I will give you some advice, Mr. College Senior and academic, learn your audience, and speak to them on their terms and their ground, in a manner which is accepted and colloquial to that audience - and leave academia and the grammar thereof, to those ivory halls from whence it pontificates.

it appears that comprehension or critical thinking doesn't apply that much in english classes. you should have taken philosophy instead. yes, i went to college, which is why i think your ideas are hilarious. take this paragraph i'm writing right now, for instance. if i were to have written this statement in a word processor, the type one uses when writing formally for a paper, my sentences and the pronoun "i" would be automatically capitalized. however, because this is the internet, along with the fact that i honestly do not care for such formalities, preferring to harbor intelligent ideas within my walls of text instead of a blind adherence to The Rules, i find myself and many others writing in this casual manner.

So you expect everything to be done for you. You have a developed a habit of expecting word processors to automatically cross your "t"s and dot your "i"s as it were. You do not have a habit of doing so on your own.

If this were your interpretation of "Real World" you would not be typing on the internet, you would be talking to me vocally, and most likely using proper grammar. If this were the "Real World" the email to your boss, the resume and cover letter you submitted, the parking ticket appeal, is likely to use proper typing.

Well this is the "Real World" the "Real World" consists of the internet, and the people on it. Everything you do or say or type is your brains response to a stimuli. That response is based on your past experiences in life.

Since you, for example, do not have a habit of capitalizing your "I"s, you do not do so here. You are doing what you know.

I'm not advocating blind adherence to "The Rules". I'm not advocating anything really. What I'm asking is if you follow specific rules in most aspects of your life, why not everywhere else too?

Wearing a tie all day is one thing, but we are talking about something that is becoming increasingly second nature, like tying shoes. Language is a constant mental process, not something that you put on in the morning, constricts you all day, and you can't wait to take it off.

Keep in mind I never personally brought intelligence into the matter, and if I did I did so in personal error. I made several suppositions about possible age ranges and expectations that person faces in their day to day life. I said that any one of those, not all, and not inclusive, -could- possibly be true. I said that as a means to highlight why people get berated for lack of what we are calling "grammar"

Being younger than 15 or not being asked to write papers or professionally does not equate intelligence or lack thereof, and I never brought this point to bear.

In fact most of what I said relates only to an individual's time or experience at a computer and the habits developed from such.

OP, you are in for a rude awakening in due time. one thing to consider is that you cannot re-roll in the real world. when people think you're a nerfherder, that's what they will think, forever.

and i hardly read what you just wrote. i think it concerns habituation. try to take this little theory of yours and apply it to your own notions, in both why you hold them, and in the manner you express them.

lolololol

I'll field this one.

 

I've been to college, spent 8 years in college, beginning over 20 years ago, and for what they're worth, I hold advanced degrees in mathematics, computers, psychology, and more recently business management.

 

Through the years after college, I have written research papers, articles for technical journals, engineering documents, instruction manuals, and probably more reports and papers than I care to recount.

 

Among the things I've learned through those years, is that most of my college professors existed safely ensconced within their towers of academia, spouting reams of self-aggrandizing propaganda, and then unleashing into the world their annual torrents of adoring sycophants, who've each spent the last several years hanging upon their every word in wide-eyed astonishment of every syllable their professors have uttered - and then we hire one of them and I have to spend the next 6 to 8 months of my life de-programming and educating them on how the actual world operates.

 

That is one of the things I've learned.

 

Another is that there are multiple dialects of language, and it's always best and proper to speak to your audience, and neither to speak over, or under, that audience if you want to find acceptance. Certainly, I can spout technical jargon, or I can create a post that would both take 20 minutes to read, and bore senseless every reader; but that is not my audience.

 

I will give you some advice, Mr. College Senior and academic, learn your audience, and speak to them on their terms and their ground, in a manner which is accepted and colloquial to that audience - and leave academia and the grammar thereof, to those ivory halls from whence it pontificates.

Have I used any impossibly large words? Have I advocated dictionary study? I have either advocated basic adherence to common practice, or asked the question as to why someone who has a habit of doing so chooses and in some cases forces themselves not to in one specific situation. I have seen the elites of many communities slash down others as being "noobs" "prepubescents" or "12" because of the way in which they typed. And I've seen 14 year-olds passing as 30 and getting away with it simply because they use periods.

I also see that in post histories of a lot of individuals, including some who have posted here that they do use perfect grammar and punctuation when they want to be taken seriously, or when they feel that their idea is important. Hardly a frivolous venture, and it takes less than a minute to confirm.

Have I used any impossibly large words? Have I advocated dictionary study? I have either advocated basic adherence to common practice, or asked the question as to why someone who has a habit of doing so chooses and in some cases forces themselves not to in one specific situation. I have seen the elites of many communities slash down others as being "noobs" "prepubescents" or "12" because of the way in which they typed. And I've seen 14 year-olds passing as 30 and getting away with it simply because they use periods.

 

I also see that in post histories of a lot of individuals, including some who have posted here that they do use perfect grammar and punctuation when they want to be taken seriously, or when they feel that their idea is important. Hardly a frivolous venture, and it takes less than a minute to confirm.

Do you dress formally all the time?

Have I used any impossibly large words? Have I advocated dictionary study? I have either advocated basic adherence to common practice, or asked the question as to why someone who has a habit of doing so chooses and in some cases forces themselves not to in one specific situation. I have seen the elites of many communities slash down others as being "noobs" "prepubescents" or "12" because of the way in which they typed. And I've seen 14 year-olds passing as 30 and getting away with it simply because they use periods.

 

I also see that in post histories of a lot of individuals, including some who have posted here that they do use perfect grammar and punctuation when they want to be taken seriously, or when they feel that their idea is important. Hardly a frivolous venture, and it takes less than a minute to confirm.

fear, anger, aggression, elitism..... the dark side are these

I don't expect good grammar in chat because chat is often used hurriedly and you can't expect someone to capitalize and punctuate everything in the middle of combat. I specifically avoid capitalizing the beginning of sentences in game chat just to fit in. I still punctuate though and I use proper spelling and avoid acronyms as much as possible.

I do expect good grammar on the forums though, because here you have plenty of time and everyone can use spell checkers and check their grammar before they post. Many are just too lazy to do so.

I skimmed your last reply again. I had a good laugh. You think that because I do not capitalize letters on an internet forum, that the habituation of this process has a direct effect on my neural processes that govern the use of language. As such, I am not totally aware that I am not capitalizing my letters, nor my pronouns, and that this is my shadow self typing to you right now.

Thankfully my shadow self is aware of my faults within grammar, and speaks to my ear when I'm writing emails to clients, or in any setting where some formality is needed.

In-game: No it doesn't matter to me unless it is a guild recruitment message. On-the-fly conversations in-game can often be done whilst doing something else and therefore like texting may require abbreviations and fake words in order to be sent out quickly. Recruitment messages would be my only exception because the message conveys an image of the guild and how it wishes to present itself.

On-forums: Yes it matters to me because people take the time to comment on something and I feel that if they want their opinion to be respected then they should put more care and effort into what they submit for discussion/critique.

The OP said he backspaces and fixes mistakes immediately. I tend to just skim read after finishing and fix any mistakes I come across before submitting. But even then everyone except the most diligent will miss the odd error every now and then so we can't be TOO pedantic or the universe will implode

EDIT TO ADD: I also don't think academics comes into it at all. You don't need a college degree to take pride in how you present yourself online. You also don't need big words. The simplest explanations are often the most successful but can still be presented well via correct spelling and grammar thus showing effort and pride in the message.

Do you dress formally all the time?

I responded to this in an earlier post. I feel putting on something that constricts you and causes you discomfort throughout the day is different from practicing language. Of course you take the tie off, but you do indeed grow used to it, and eventually it is later in the day before you take it off. You grow so used to it that eating, or excitement over a game, or your paycheck, is enough to distract you from it.

Do you stop using the word "my" when you're not at work or school? If your boss or teacher calls you at night would you not call him Mr. Boss or Sir?

I responded to this in an earlier post. I feel putting on something that constricts you and causes you discomfort throughout the day is different from practicing language. Of course you take the tie off, but you do indeed grow used to it, and eventually it is later in the day before you take it off. You grow so used to it that eating, or excitement over a game, or your paycheck, is enough to distract you from it.

 

Do you stop using the word "my" when you're not at work or school? If your boss or teacher calls you at night would you not call him Mr. Boss or Sir?

Do you call your friends Mr or by thier given names?

I have in most of my jobs been on a first name basis with my direct boss.

wut i dnt get doe is y izit a prblm? dang noobs uzn pwnzer speek

Your post is as readable as the OP, which is to say: I could read either post without any difficulty but find myself instantly disinterested based upon obvious visual cues.

But you put less effort into writing yours, so I guess you win.

Congratulations.

Your post is as readable as the OP, which is to say: I could read either post without any difficulty but find myself instantly disinterested based upon obvious visual cues.

 

But you put less effort into writing yours, so I guess you win.

 

Congratulations.

If I wrote a post like the one you quoted it would require more effort for me than if I wrote the OP. lol.

I struggled to read the post you quoted.

Your post is as readable as the OP, which is to say: I could read either post without any difficulty but find myself instantly disinterested based upon obvious visual cues.

 

But you put less effort into writing yours, so I guess you win.

 

Congratulations.

woot!! I won the internets *toothy grin*

Love you guys, for real:D even the OP we need people like him;)

For clarification the post with silliness was a joke.

I don't expect good grammar in chat because chat is often used hurriedly and you can't expect someone to capitalize and punctuate everything in the middle of combat. I specifically avoid capitalizing the beginning of sentences in game chat just to fit in. I still punctuate though and I use proper spelling and avoid acronyms as much as possible.

 

I do expect good grammar on the forums though, because here you have plenty of time and everyone can use spell checkers and check their grammar before they post. Many are just too lazy to do so.

 

It is very interesting to me that you avoid capitalization just to fit in while doing everything else. Personally my habits have my pinky hovering over the shift key usually, so why not use it?

In-game: No it doesn't matter to me unless it is a guild recruitment message. On-the-fly conversations in-game can often be done whilst doing something else and therefore like texting may require abbreviations and fake words in order to be sent out quickly. Recruitment messages would be my only exception because the message conveys an image of the guild and how it wishes to present itself.

 

On-forums: Yes it matters to me because people take the time to comment on something and I feel that if they want their opinion to be respected then they should put more care and effort into what they submit for discussion/critique.

 

The OP said he backspaces and fixes mistakes immediately. I tend to just skim read after finishing and fix any mistakes I come across before submitting. But even then everyone except the most diligent will miss the odd error every now and then so we can't be TOO pedantic or the universe will implode

 

EDIT TO ADD: I also don't think academics comes into it at all. You don't need a college degree to take pride in how you present yourself online. You also don't need big words. The simplest explanations are often the most successful.

So you expect leaders in game to present themselves professionally, that is people advertising for guild recruitment, but not the every-day player? Is this not implying the same Boss/Worker Leader/Follower relationship that is expected in normal Work or School? Where the boss or teacher is expected to be a picture of professionalism or "right"?

Do you call your friends Mr or by thier given names?

If I am in a habit of calling a friend something, I will always call them that. This is interesting though. Because in some workplaces you are expected to call your friend something else. Is this the exception or the rule? For example; Your high school friend is Jimmy. You went to college together and now work together, you even live together why not. You call him Jimmy at home because that's what you've always called him. At work you are expected to call him Mr. Blank.

Here's the inverse. You have a beloved school teacher. Mrs. Frank. You go to college and end up working at the school. It is common practice in school to call colleagues Mr or Mrs. Assuming she's still there, would she not be in the habit of calling you Jimmy and you calling her Mrs. Frank, even in social non-work situations?

Edit to add:

This quickly divorced itself from game concepts, which is not a problem. I never really attacked anyone or any class or supposed an intelligence level. The focus in proving me wrong is futile because I asked to be proven wrong, so It's not like I'm going to go away. The beauty of a forum is you choose to read it or not read it and leave. By reading it you will see things that I have covered and realize that a lot of comments do not relate to my OP at all. I did say I expected flamers, so don't expect to "win" with a one liner or a jab about Starbucks. .-.

So you expect leaders in game to present themselves professionally, that is people advertising for guild recruitment, but not the every-day player? Is this not implying the same Boss/Worker Leader/Follower relationship that is expected in normal Work or School? Where the boss or teacher is expected to be a picture of professionalism or "right"?

Only when posting a recruitment message. At any other time a leader (or whoever posts recruitment messages) is just like any other player. I mentioned a specific time (when recruiting) not a specific person (leader) so am not sure why boss/leader/teacher were brought up in reply to my post.

If you want to add a secular spin to in-game recruitment messages then it would be like an employer posting a job advertisement. I personally would not even consider applying for a job if the advertisement was full of spelling and grammar errors.

Ideally I would love if everyone took the time to write everything correctly. Game chatter/text messages/emails/forum posts etc. Personally I don't mind taking the time to quickly check what I have written before sending it. And I don't abbreviate my text messages. But I also don't expect everyone to be the same as me in this matter (also not implying that is what you are suggesting).

Only when posting a recruitment message. At any other time a leader (or whoever posts recruitment messages) is just like any other player. I mentioned a specific time (when recruiting) not a specific person (leader) so am not sure why boss/leader/teacher were brought up in reply to my post.

 

If you want to add a secular spin to in-game recruitment messages then it would be like an employer posting a job advertisement. I personally would not even consider applying for a job if the advertisement was full of spelling and grammar errors.

 

Ideally I would love if everyone took the time to write everything correctly. Game chatter/text messages/emails/forum posts etc. Personally I don't mind taking the time to quickly check what I have written before sending it. And I don't abbreviate my text messages. But I also don't expect everyone to be the same as me in this matter (also not implying that is what you are suggesting).

So my question to you is when you see someone who doesn't take the time to check, or a guild recruiter who doesn't take the time to properly format. How would that make you feel about the person if say in the same hour they started an argument with you on......inventory spaces. Or anything of that nature. Would you view yourself in a superior position at that point?

I overestimated your original comment by supposing that guild recruiters = leaders and you expected them to be eloquent.

Edit:

Or for that matter. Do you make assumptions on age or level of education when you see sloppy messages? Especially guild recruitment ones.