Muram your response was ignorant of this thread. Its fine but it is.

 

My point was that many of us talking on this thread want a matchmaking system.

 

There is major MAJOR contention between the current system and a solo q only / group q only system.

 

There is less fighting when it comes to making a matchmaking system.

 

I don't want the system to stay as is. I want a simple matchmaking system that tries to match premades for a few minutes and also allows for mixed faction teams (would help premade matching and would help stop people from gaming the system).

 

My goal is to get people asking for a solo only q to realize the futility of their attempts and to realize that even a simple matchmaking system including mixed faction teams would make thier pvp experience much much better.

 

If many of us can get behind one idea then maybe the devs will maybe notice us. However, arguing as we are there really isn't anything the devs would do even if they were watching this thread (not holding my breath lol).

Well calling people ignorant doesn't really help your "lets not fight guys" agenda. Just sayin',

By the way I disagree, no new people are coming into PVP and queue's will only get longer. It's a shame since F2P is happening, this was the time to lure in new people and get them interested but hey they get to play against premades with no chance to win. Matchmaking is just more of the same, only reworded, I'm glad you are sold on that term though if that makes you think things will change.

pvp is a joke here and its due to one reson pve skills with no thinking about how they would play out in pvp

zap zap stun stun slow slow

The thing is, we have evidence PVP is dieing due to the clear lack and struggle(you admit to having as well) to gather a ranked pvp match. Ranked pvp been around for quite a bit now, nothing has changed...actually I take that back, it's gotten worse. You are offering a solution that changes nothing but label it as "matchmaking" when it's really just Premade vs Pug v2.

 

I'm sorry I had to open your mind to that fact but I felt it needed to be said before you kept repeating a bad suggestion.

 

Solo queue bracket will bring more people into PVP thus more potential competition to group pvp. Current system doesn't welcome new people to PVP at all, so you are stuck with the same groups, whom will probably get bored and leave. It's just glaringly obvious how much this would work, but I admit would only truly work with cross server queue's in place.

As I said before, -we- do not know why PvP is suffering. It could be from the Gear gap, the time to grind, premade vs. PuG, bad players, a failure to understand MMO pvp, lack of warzones, lack of class balance, or maybe the great Daddy in the Sky just wants to smite Swtor. The proposed split queue system only addresses one possible issue, and it causes as much if not more harm then good.

As for why ranked is dead/dying, I'd say in my opinion, it's the entry level requirement to Play it. Something I find people have trouble getting through their skulls is the difference between the requirements to Play, and the requirements to Win.

Non-ranked has low entry requirements: Hit 50, Queue up.

Non-Ranked has a slightly higher requirement to win (most of the time): Hit 50, Find 1-3 friends, gear up to atleast BM, try and get a decent team composition.

Yet ranked (the dead queue) is different because...

Ranked entry requirement: Hit 50, Find exactly 7 other people.

Ranked requirement to win (most of the time): Hit 50, find 7 other people, gear up to mostly WH, get a decent team composition.

Well calling people ignorant doesn't really help your "lets not fight guys" agenda. Just sayin',

 

By the way I disagree, no new people are coming into PVP and queue's will only get longer. It's a shame since F2P is happening, this was the time to lure in new people and get them interested but hey they get to play against premades with no chance to win. Matchmaking is just more of the same, only reworded, I'm glad you are sold on that term though if that makes you think things will change.

Any decent F2P will (one, buy a wz pass and thus not be f2p) take the steps neccessary to have a "chance to win." The rest, we're probably better without. No offense, but I hate playing with whiners and people who act like their sitll in their early tweens.

PvP is dying mostly because it isn't fun. Even when I join my guild's premades and rock and roll over the nubs and bads, I get bored easily. If i was the guy getting facerolled I'd be even less interested. There's no semblance of balance and no point in doing it except gear that makes me look like everyone else.

World PVP may change things but i'm pretty sure Bioware said screw it, lets just make more ops and warzones and be just like world of pandacraft.

The way I used ignorant it was not an insult. I am ignorant of many things as is everyone. He didn't read my other posts.

A decent matchmaking system is nothing like this. Especially if they allow diff faction teams.

Solo only Q would actually be easeir to game than matching.

I HATE PUGSTOMPING. I want premades to fight premades and pugs to fight pugs.

THEY WILL NOT DO SOLO ONLY Q WITHOUT CROSS SERVER AND CROSS SERVER IS NOT HAPPENING ANYTIME SOON.

As soon as you realize this we can work together and pester the devs to fix pvp.

Also, remember with mixed faction teams then if 2 imp premades q and 0 pub ones q then the imp premades will fight eachother while the pugs will be on both sides.

The way I used ignorant it was not an insult. I am ignorant of many things as is everyone. He didn't read my other posts..

Yep I am ignorant because I read one of your posts and called you on it /shrug whatever. It desn't matter if you write 100 posts and then on the 101st you write something that's off and you get called on it get over it.

Hard facts and statistics rule the day.

Fact: Most people that play are PUGers

Fact: Only so many people actually come to the forums and post so what you see on the forums VS what is in game... are different.

Fact: From what I have read cross server ques... not going to happen.

Possible: From what I have read on all the forums, and my own experiences each server is heavy one side or the other in terms of Empire VS Republic. Example: Premade teams are on the Pubs side so people from the Empire re-roll to the pubs so they don't get noobstomped making the gap/ques worse.

Fact: The gear gap in PVP is horrible. The saying the rich get richer and the poor stay poor holds true. The elites group up, no one wants the lessers because it means a possible chance to lose rather then a full group of elites.

Fact: You piss off the bulk of the player base (PUGers, getting ROFLStomped) and they either stop stop PVPing or quite the game all together. This means guess what the ques get much longer and premades fight premades.

As it stands less PUGrs will que, less f2p people will stay because of the PVP. Eventually it will take more time to que a game and when you do it will be premade against premade with a couple of PUGers that havent been chased away. You add a solo/2 person que and a group one and the Que will get a little longer (mostly for the premades as there aren't as many of them) allow same sides to fight it out (pub vs pub, emp vs emp) and I doubt it will go up as much as everyone believes. Or there can be an elaberate match making system which will increase the que. Because if you just have it look for premade vs premade and it can't find it said fact number 4 will happen. all the premades will be on one side (pub or emp) and the same thing we have right now will happen.

Sorry to say there is no magic silver bullet for this and people have some good ideas some not so much. The problem is no matter what you do someone will lose out. So what hapens? You find the path that the least amount of people getting screwed hard and you learn that whatever side you are on you will lose some points in some areas and win some in others. Either really really long ques for 90% of your matches being even or getting ROFLstomped if you don't turn into an elitist or the ques get a little longer and PUG's play PUG's and Premades play Premades.

devs simple fix

people who group play with other groups

people who solo play with solo

the end

devs simple fix

 

people who group play with other groups

 

people who solo play with solo

 

 

the end

They did this in WoW and it worked great. Groups of 4 or more had to go I to the premade queue because premade offers significant advantages over pug.

devs simple fix

 

people who group play with other groups

 

people who solo play with solo

 

 

the end

The noobstompers don't want that to happen though, takes away their farming even though they keep saying "It sucks and is boring" that's not what they really think, because they are very vocal on saying "L2P" when they know that isn't the issue.

The noobstompers don't want that to happen though, takes away their farming even though they keep saying "It sucks and is boring" that's not what they really think, because they are very vocal on saying "L2P" when they know that isn't the issue.

Ain't that the truth. They think because they got into pvp before the server merges and joined with an experience pvp guild that ensures they get carried through matches while collecting the max number of medals they are somehow entitled.

You know you are playing them when they do stuff like overlap heals (something solos would struggle to organize) or protect their snipers from any possible harm. When I play my sniper nobody even bothers to heal let alone have a line of protection so that little miss sniper can get her power shots off.

Wake up Devs, Please allow for Solo's to play with Solo's groups to play with groups.

You know you are playing them when they do stuff like overlap heals (something solos would struggle to organize) or protect their snipers from any possible harm. When I play my sniper nobody even bothers to heal let alone have a line of protection so that little miss sniper can get her power shots off.

Take a step back an listen to yourself. You are complaining about people being -good.-

A healers actually healing? *Mind boggled.*

Ranged dps getting a hand? *mind boggled.*

Teamwork is OP! Dev's please nerf it for those of us who can't bother to do that.

-.- I left a few weeks before 1.3. When I came back a little after 1.4 my server had been merged, my guild was gone/dead. Most of the people I knew before had drifted or I couldn't find them. I even rolled on the opposite side of my 3 50's (who were all a mix of champ and BM, so they lost most of their "good" pvp gear.)

She hit 50 about 1-2 weeks before Mk-2 (ya, got screwed on that one too). I met some nice people along the way to 50, got in a half decent guild, and had a good 8-10 people on my friendslist. I did the grind to0, a mix of Solo and Group play. I learned my class, I learned other classes, and I learned what others would do on my team (If I see a certian Smuggler in my guild hanging out near a door, I know he's waiting for me to distract the guard.). I did the grind from recruit to BM, and BM to WH while working a full time job with other commitments and a second game on the side.

The -only- difference between me and you (solo-centric people) is I choose to play the better way, and you choose to cry about it.

You know you are playing them when they do stuff like overlap heals (something solos would struggle to organize) or protect their snipers from any possible harm. When I play my sniper nobody even bothers to heal let alone have a line of protection so that little miss sniper can get her power shots off.

What you have just described is the biggest problem with solo queuing. It isn't the premades, its the solo queuers that only look after themselves, their kill count, healing done, and highest damage.

If you solo queue and get stuck on a bad team, is that the other team's fault?

No, it isn't and even if there was a solo vs solo and group vs group queue you, more than likely, will still find yourself in the same situation that you just described.

I solo queue most of the time when I PvP, though I do group up with guildies occasionally, and the endless frustration I feel when I get stuck on a team of bad PuGs is amazing. Especially when I run into a well organized premade and my team mates can't even find it in themselves to call out incs. Which, incidentally, makes the premade look even more organized.

However, I don't blame the other team for it, "I" chose to solo queue knowing what the consequences might be just as I choose to play a gunny commando in PvP.

Once again, it isn't the premades that are ruining PvP it's the solo queuers that do it and refuse to acknowledge that by joining a WZ they have now become part of a team and that they need to shoulder some responsibility to insure that their team is victorious.

As I said before, -we- do not know why PvP is suffering. It could be from the Gear gap, the time to grind, premade vs. PuG, bad players, a failure to understand MMO pvp, lack of warzones, lack of class balance, or maybe the great Daddy in the Sky just wants to smite Swtor. The proposed split queue system only addresses one possible issue, and it causes as much if not more harm then good.

 

As for why ranked is dead/dying, I'd say in my opinion, it's the entry level requirement to Play it. Something I find people have trouble getting through their skulls is the difference between the requirements to Play, and the requirements to Win.

 

Non-ranked has low entry requirements: Hit 50, Queue up.

Non-Ranked has a slightly higher requirement to win (most of the time): Hit 50, Find 1-3 friends, gear up to atleast BM, try and get a decent team composition.

 

Yet ranked (the dead queue) is different because...

 

Ranked entry requirement: Hit 50, Find exactly 7 other people.

Ranked requirement to win (most of the time): Hit 50, find 7 other people, gear up to mostly WH, get a decent team composition.

No one said that Pug vs Premade were the only problems but if you examine split queues and how they would affect other issues, you'd notice the following things:

1. Gear gap would still exist but would be less of an issue because (hopefully) well-geared people would be distributed evenly.

2. Time to grind comes directly from gear gap. The better your gear, the faster you get more gear. No.1 would help this.

3. Premades vs PuGs. Hopefully it would solve this problem entirely.

4. Bad Players. Just like good ones (hopefully) they would be distributed relatively evenly and wouldn't hinder just 1 team.

5. Failure to understand MMO PvP. I think it's the same as "bad players" See No.4.

6. Lack of warzones. Most people don't care which warzone they play as long as they're having fun.

7. Class imbalance. This happens anyway everywhere.

8. Great Daddy in the Sky wants to smite SWTOR. If by that you mean EA, I'm pretty sure they are not deliberately sabotaging their own game. It's just SWTOR is becoming a low-priority game for them because it doesn't bring the most profit. Why? Because people don't stick around and leave (partly) due to a very bad PvP system.

So I never said that split queues were ideal. They are far from ideal. However, it's better than to just sit back, debate on the forums and slowly watch PvP die in this game. I wonder how all those pugstomping premades will feel when they have successfully driven everyone away and they're left to rule one big desert.

So like 90% of the time i solo que, as dps I end up having to stealth guard nodes,because:

1 - There WAS a recruit Sorc spamhealing himself for medals

2 - Incompetent tank Juggy who chases people

Also you dont know if the guarder can even write.

"why didnt you call?" "I was stunned"

YEH S0L0 QU3 FTW PLZPREMADES STACHP BEIGN NAPS END G0 R4NK3D FFS

Stop complaining, there has always been premades and there will always be

No one said that Pug vs Premade were the only problems but if you examine split queues and how they would affect other issues, you'd notice the following things:

 

1. Gear gap would still exist but would be less of an issue because (hopefully) well-geared people would be distributed evenly.

2. Time to grind comes directly from gear gap. The better your gear, the faster you get more gear. No.1 would help this.

3. Premades vs PuGs. Hopefully it would solve this problem entirely.

4. Bad Players. Just like good ones (hopefully) they would be distributed relatively evenly and wouldn't hinder just 1 team.

5. Failure to understand MMO PvP. I think it's the same as "bad players" See No.4.

6. Lack of warzones. Most people don't care which warzone they play as long as they're having fun.

7. Class imbalance. This happens anyway everywhere.

8. Great Daddy in the Sky wants to smite SWTOR. If by that you mean EA, I'm pretty sure they are not deliberately sabotaging their own game. It's just SWTOR is becoming a low-priority game for them because it doesn't bring the most profit. Why? Because people don't stick around and leave (partly) due to a very bad PvP system.

 

So I never said that split queues were ideal. They are far from ideal. However, it's better than to just sit back, debate on the forums and slowly watch PvP die in this game. I wonder how all those pugstomping premades will feel when they have successfully driven everyone away and they're left to rule one big desert.

1. If there was one faction, this would be valid. However, gear gap won't distribute if the 4-5 well geared people are on imp or pub side. It still isn't solving the direct issue, nor will it solve people blaming gear for losing.

2. Problem is it still doesn't solve the direct issue, it just sorta hopes for the best.

3. Yes... as long as there isn't a way to exploit the queue system. Then the complain will move into "Why don't we have some sort of skill ranking to even out teams?"

4. See both example one, and no matter what, bad players will always complain.

5. Actually refered to people who don't understand MMO-PvP (specifically progression based) isn't fair on the encounter level, it's more about choices you've made up to the encounter.

6. If the lack of Warzones is a problem effecting PvP interest, then split queue's did nothing to help it, which is exactly as I'm arguing. We don't know the exact reasons pvp is suffering.

7. See 6. If that's the real reason PvP is suffering then we've wasted dev time on a system that won't help the problem, and could hurt more.

8. Was actually a reference to the mythical being most call "God."

Yes, your haven't said your system is ideal. Yet two options have been tossed around (3 if you count doing nothing). One is a split queue system, the other is a proper matchmaking system. I've tried to stress/explain the difference between inclusive and exclusive.

Option one is exclusive, hard, firm, unbending. Not enough Premades, no match. Not enough PuG's, no match. Smaller pools, more likely-hood of running into the same teams... etc... and it creates one queue with less skill/prep required, and one with a higher skill/prep required (yet same rewards.)

Option two is inclusive, compromising, fluid. Tries to match premade to premade only, pug to pug, but mixes them as needed. Fills pug's into 2-3 man groups, backfills if premades lose a player (d/c happens). Has one queue with an average level of skill/prep required, so no one can ***** about those less skilled getting same rewards etc...

Stop complaining, there has always been premades and there will always be

There is nothing eternal in this world, dude

There is nothing eternal in this world, dude

No, but working systems (good or bad) stick around for awhile. Ya know... Democracy, Tyranny, Post Office, Speed dating... etc...

So like 90% of the time i solo que, as dps I end up having to stealth guard nodes,because:

 

1 - There WAS a recruit Sorc spamhealing himself for medals

2 - Incompetent tank Juggy who chases people

 

Also you dont know if the guarder can even write.

"why didnt you call?" "I was stunned"

 

YEH S0L0 QU3 FTW PLZPREMADES STACHP BEIGN NAPS END G0 R4NK3D FFS

 

Stop complaining, there has always been premades and there will always be

If you que solo like 90% people then 50% of the time you have a premade on your team. If you fail to win with a premade maby its time to rethink your skills? I mean your argument is basically this : "stupid guard didnt call incs - its a premade fault he was stupid!".

Option one is exclusive, hard, firm, unbending. Not enough Premades, no match. Not enough PuG's, no match. Smaller pools, more likely-hood of running into the same teams... etc... and it creates one queue with less skill/prep required, and one with a higher skill/prep required (yet same rewards.)

 

Option two is inclusive, compromising, fluid. Tries to match premade to premade only, pug to pug, but mixes them as needed. Fills pug's into 2-3 man groups, backfills if premades lose a player (d/c happens). Has one queue with an average level of skill/prep required, so no one can ***** about those less skilled getting same rewards etc...

And just how long do you think it will take to develop, refine, test and implement option two? Maybe by patch 2.8.3 we'll have the super-balanced, super-fun match making system that everyone seems to want? Awesome! But how many players will be around by then let me ask?

Option two is a great idea...

...on paper because it is unrealistic at the present. It will take an insane amount of money and time to develop and implement. By which time pretty much all PuGs, F2P and casual subbers will have already left the game. We won't be needing a match making system by then because there won't be people around to PvP. We really should poll the new/returning players how much fun they have in PvP and if they plan to stick around or even do the unthinkable and sub.

Then what will all the war hero premades that laugh hysterically with frothing mouths and madly flashing eyes and feel a sudden rush of adulation and exultation for successfully killing someone who had 6 or 7k less HP anyway in two shots do when they suddenly run out of PuGs, casuals and F2P to slaughter? Some will stay and play against other premades in rateds, most will leave because they don't like even competition. That will be the sad but not surprising end of SWTOR PVP.

So, we can sit back, debate all day about a perfect match making system whose release will coincide with Mitt Romney's 2016 presidential inauguration, grab some popcorn and watch SWTOR PVP wither and die. Because I can guarantee you that system we want is so complex that it's impossible to implement in the near future.

The developers need to do something RIGHT NOW and ASAP if they are serious about making new and returning players actually want to play pvp. I see absolutely no reason why we couldn't try split queues for a short time. Or even allow people to optionally turn premades off (hint hint at a certain game), so whoever wants to play against premades while solo queuing (guess how many will) will be allowed to do so. It doesn't have to be permanent, just to see if it would alleviate some of the burden that is already weighing down new people so much.

You say if a man is in critical condition and you administer the wrong procedure he could die? True. The difference is: if you administer the wrong treatment he COULD die. If you don't do anything he WILL die. (And the kind of match making we all want is tantamount to doing nothing because it is unfathomably far in the future.)

MMOs are always developing and evolving. I'm sure all the reasonable premaders (who want more than fast and easy comms and kills) and solo players would be interested in a short experiment. (We could also try experimenting with gear and a Recruit bracket.) It's just those abovementioned premades that complain who suddenly feel naked when they enter a warzone, where they cant kill everyone in 3 GCDs.

And just how long do you think it will take to develop, refine, test and implement option two? Maybe by patch 2.8.3 we'll have the super-balanced, super-fun match making system that everyone seems to want? Awesome! But how many players will be around by then let me ask?

 

Option two is a great idea...

 

...on paper because it is unrealistic at the present. It will take an insane amount of money and time to develop and implement. By which time pretty much all PuGs, F2P and casual subbers will have already left the game. We won't be needing a match making system by then because there won't be people around to PvP. We really should poll the new/returning players how much fun they have in PvP and if they plan to stick around or even do the unthinkable and sub.

 

Then what will all the war hero premades that laugh hysterically with frothing mouths and madly flashing eyes and feel a sudden rush of adulation and exultation for successfully killing someone who had 6 or 7k less HP anyway in two shots do when they suddenly run out of PuGs, casuals and F2P to slaughter? Some will stay and play against other premades in rateds, most will leave because they don't like even competition. That will be the sad but not surprising end of SWTOR PVP.

 

So, we can sit back, debate all day about a perfect match making system whose release will coincide with Mitt Romney's 2016 presidential inauguration, grab some popcorn and watch SWTOR PVP wither and die. Because I can guarantee you that system we want is so complex that it's impossible to implement in the near future.

 

The developers need to do something RIGHT NOW and ASAP if they are serious about making new and returning players actually want to play pvp. I see absolutely no reason why we couldn't try split queues for a short time. Or even allow people to optionally turn premades off (hint hint at a certain game), so whoever wants to play against premades while solo queuing (guess how many will) will be allowed to do so. It doesn't have to be permanent, just to see if it would alleviate some of the burden that is already weighing down new people so much.

 

You say if a man is in critical condition and you administer the wrong procedure he could die? True. The difference is: if you administer the wrong treatment he COULD die. If you don't do anything he WILL die. (And the kind of match making we all want is tantamount to doing nothing because it is unfathomably far in the future.)

 

MMOs are always developing and evolving. I'm sure all the reasonable premaders (who want more than fast and easy comms and kills) and solo players would be interested in a short experiment. (We could also try experimenting with gear and a Recruit bracket.) It's just those abovementioned premades that complain who suddenly feel naked when they enter a warzone, where they cant kill everyone in 3 GCDs.

Are you a programmer? Have you ever programmed a matching algorithm? Do you know how many Programmers Bioware has? Do you know how to split queue's?

I'm going to guess no to pretty much all of that. Simply put, you (and I) do not know how long it would take Bioware to do either option. As stated before, I do not believe bioware has the luxury to make another stupid hasty fix. We need a "real" solution to the "correct" problem.

Fyi. No one likes being lab rats. Should see how many people complained about ToR being incomplete, and essentially Paying to Beta Test in the first 6 months of this game.

They did this in WoW and it worked great. Groups of 4 or more had to go I to the premade queue because premade offers significant advantages over pug.

I'm starting to notice on both faction sides of my server that there are pvp'ers you never see on your team. You only ever see them on the opposite (usually winning) team. This indicates to me that what the queue matching system tends to do is match the larger groups to fight a teams consisting of solos. You would think it would want to match with equal sized groups but that doesn't seem to be the case.

So the larger your group the chances of playing teams consisting of solo pvp'ers in increases. And I think the more experienced guilds have figured this out.

meaning: If two groups of four queue together it will be highly probable that 4 out of 5 of their matches will be against solos (let the pugstomping begin). Because the system doesn't try to MATCH a large group with large group, INSTEAD it fills solo players and groups of two around the largest group.

The rationale behind this came from solo pvp'ing over a span of two months.

http://gyazo.com/a8f1728d7973ff2f00eeb0f59ab711cb.png

and i only have recruit gear....and im a bloody lighting sorcerer...

Not sure if premade or just SUCK

http://gyazo.com/a8f1728d7973ff2f00eeb0f59ab711cb.png

and i only have recruit gear....and im a bloody lighting sorcerer...

 

Not sure if premade or just SUCK

Looks like you ran into one of the "you have all been randomly selected" to be on this team and you got stuck on a team with no DPS. No DPS means you can't keep up with the other teams heals which means you lose. I wasn't there so I don't know if you fought a premade or not. But that was def 1 sided and a good example of needing a new system to match people.

I'm starting to notice on both faction sides of my server that there are pvp'ers you never see on your team. You only ever see them on the opposite (usually winning) team. This indicates to me that what the queue matching system tends to do is match the larger groups to fight a teams consisting of solos. You would think it would want to match with equal sized groups but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

So the larger your group the chances of playing teams consisting of solo pvp'ers in increases. And I think the more experienced guilds have figured this out.

 

meaning: If two groups of four queue together it will be highly probable that 4 out of 5 of their matches will be against solos (let the pugstomping begin). Because the system doesn't try to MATCH a large group with large group, INSTEAD it fills solo players and groups of two around the largest group.

 

The rationale behind this came from solo pvp'ing over a span of two months.

I've noticed that too. The system algorithm often places groups together and fills the opposite team with pugs. Now, I'm going to make the broad assumption this happens because its easy to do. Finish team A, now finish B. n

Launch WZ.

It will change eventually. It didn't last in wow and it won't last here.