I can take full bm sorc/sage healers from 100-0 in stun locks when their cc breaker is down... if were weak, then what are they?

I don't know what scenario you were in, but that doesn't happen in in our tests with the Sorc just standing there doing nothing for the purpose of the test.

I don't know what scenario you were in

He was in one of his own imaginary scenarios.

I can take full bm sorc/sage healers from 100-0 in stun locks when their cc breaker is down... if were weak, then what are they?

I'm a Sorcerer who's been killed by an Operative in 2 attacks (there was also Acid Blade damage).

I'm not lodging a complaint about Operatives though; I've fought them enough to know better. Just saying that one time, I was gutted like sheep.

Holy cow, is your sig an official quote? That's insanity, a team of anything working together to focus fire a target will do that... unbelievable.

Yah it's official,crazy huh,and if one looks at the timeline of nerfs to the Scrapper/concealement line it fits in with the QQing that went on in the forums,they say it wasnt because of that but the Sorc's had months of double dipping but when Op's/scoundrels could hit hard you bettter believe there was a quick "Fix".

I have spent over two decades listening and reading what poloticians and buisness people say and how they spin,Mr Zoeller spinned a fine tune,but again looking at the timeline it doesnt pass the smell test if anyone looked at it with an ounce of logic.

Holy cow, is your sig an official quote? That's insanity, a team of anything working together to focus fire a target will do that... unbelievable.

Yup, he actually said that. It's great to know that the dev team is on board with the idea of using the least played class in the game as their favorite whipping boys. Right now, DPSing at all on a Scoundrel is absolutely pathetic, and you can forget getting invited to an operation.

But if we could go back in time i kinda get a sense why they nerfed us,please let me explain.

The first nerf or adjustment was very needed,the shootfirst with sucker punch and BB was just too powerful combined with stims etc.

But what got me is the second one,it was 24 hours before the level 50's bracket,i think they shoulda waited personally,but let me go back in time like i said.

People saw what i and a few others were doing in WZ's (I know it was the case on other servers because i saw the youtube vids),there was no 50's bracket and we were melting people in three hits with them on their face too to add insult,it was too much,by about week three after using that tree set up i started seeing something,you guessed it an army of Scoundrels in the teens to mid twentys in WZ's where prior i could count on one hand how many level 50 scoundrels there was and maybe at best 20 or so lower levels but all of a sudden they were everywhere,so i am assuming they wanted to nip that in the bud pronto,maybe im wrong but thats what i saw and kind of believe.

But if we could go back in time i kinda get a sense why they nerfed us,please let me explain.

 

The first nerf or adjustment was very needed,the shootfirst with sucker punch and BB was just too powerful combined with stims etc.

 

But what got me is the second one,it was 24 hours before the level 50's bracket,i think they shoulda waited personally,but let me go back in time like i said.

 

People saw what i and a few others were doing in WZ's (I know it was the case on other servers because i saw the youtube vids),there was no 50's bracket and we were melting people in three hits with them on their face too to add insult,it was too much,by about week three after using that tree set up i started seeing something,you guessed it an army of Scoundrels in the teens to mid twentys in WZ's where prior i could count on one hand how many level 50 scoundrels there was and maybe at best 20 or so lower levels but all of a sudden they were everywhere,so i am assuming they wanted to nip that in the bud pronto,maybe im wrong but thats what i saw and kind of believe.

It was kind of bad. But that was just the nature of buff stacking. Bet if they went with the stim/adrenal nerf first, the first nerf would not have been needed.

But...here we are. And it sounds like the combat team doesn't want to give us anything back.

It was kind of bad. But that was just the nature of buff stacking. Bet if they went with the stim/adrenal nerf first, the first nerf would not have been needed.

 

But...here we are. And it sounds like the combat team doesn't want to give us anything back.

Yah thats why i wish they would of held off on the second nerf after the buff stacking,whats done is done,it sucks because the class was a blast to play,one hit wonders,but you had to think too and like someone else said in this thread or another,that sense of fear is gone now since we are so diluted.

EDIT:They did the first nerf and then the stacking was removed and then the night before the 50's bracket they did the second nerf,why i dont know,atleast that how i recall it.

Yah thats why i wish they would of held off on the second nerf after the buff stacking,whats done is done,it sucks because the class was a blast to play,one hit wonders,but you had to think too and like someone else said in this thread or another,that sense of fear is gone now since we are so diluted.

 

EDIT:They did the first nerf and then the stacking was removed and then the night before the 50's bracket they did the second nerf,why i dont know,atleast that how i recall it.

Yeah. I just opened up on someone in an Civil War, and I was basically laughed at. Our opener just doesn't hit very hard, especially it it fails to crit. Backblast actually tends to be more consistent damage.

The main nerf was the one where Shoot First and Flechette Round damage was reduced by 20%, armor penetration was reduced another 20%, and the stun was reduced by 50%. Overall, I think the Flechette Round nerf hurt the most, since it made tanks much more durable against us.

Then there was the nerf to the buff stacking, which hurt everyone. Then the nerf to the surge rating, which affected us more since Operative/Scoundrel don't have many boosts to overall damage and depend more on the big crit.

I keep hoping we'll see a patch note that boosts scrapper damage, but even the big 1.2 patch notes ended up with a net decrease in damage. It's just....depressing.

What happened in Patch 1.2 that destroyed the Operatives and Scoundrels? Before when it used to be "oh crap an Operative, better be on serious guard"... you know, the way pvp should be, a challenge....

 

To beat down a fully BM geared Scoundrel, oh he's going after the med pack... I'll let him get in, he gets it heals back up to almost full, I /dance with him, he attacks me again, and I rofl stomp him.

 

Then I get jumped by an Operative in a different game, hmm, this is gonna suck I say to myself, except it didn't suck, it I didn't even have to burn any cool downs.

 

These are all the same players, same names that I've encountered dozens of times before... what did patch 1.2 do to screw that class over? (the healer side of the class are doing better though)

atm Concealment Operative are like a dog humping on your leg,anoying,but not lethal

Most went healer because the other two lines are not viable,sure you can stealth around and look for people at half health and lay into them,but the down time for your team isnt worth it,so BW has effectively said reroll or go heal spec.

This is what I've seen too. The players that played these classes that used to be seen in the WZs a lot, are gone, or healers now.

Yah thats why i wish they would of held off on the second nerf after the buff stacking,whats done is done,it sucks because the class was a blast to play,one hit wonders,but you had to think too and like someone else said in this thread or another,that sense of fear is gone now since we are so diluted.

 

EDIT:They did the first nerf and then the stacking was removed and then the night before the 50's bracket they did the second nerf,why i dont know,atleast that how i recall it.

Actually they did the 50s bracket and removal of buff stacking (warzone adrenal + warzone buff) in 1.1.0 first, then within less than 24-48 hours the PTS was updated with the nerfs to Concealment/Scrapper.

If you do a bit of digging, you'll see that 1.1.0 was released on 1/18/12, and people already had the PTS notes for 1.1.1 by 1/20/12.

That's why it was obvious to everyone and their grandma that the metrics were a load of crap, as they announced and updated the PTS with the Op/Scoundrel nerf, which means it had already been developed and gone through QA, before there were any significant metrics at all.

This is what I've seen too. The players that played these classes that used to be seen in the WZs a lot, are gone, or healers now.

That is called Bioware 'balance'.

They nerf sorc healers into the ground and then nerf operative dps viability forcing them into healing roles to replace the void left by sorcs. Heh

Actually they did the 50s bracket and removal of buff stacking (warzone adrenal + warzone buff) in 1.1.0 first, then within less than 24-48 hours the PTS was updated with the nerfs to Concealment/Scrapper.

 

If you do a bit of digging, you'll see that 1.1.0 was released on 1/18/12, and people already had the PTS notes for 1.1.1 by 1/20/12.

 

That's why it was obvious to everyone and their grandma that the metrics were a load of crap, as they announced and updated the PTS with the Op/Scoundrel nerf, which means it had already been developed and gone through QA, before there were any significant metrics at all.

Yeah. That's right. How could they do any metrics on what damage scrappers were dealing after the buff stacking was taken out.

Of course, that patch just made the stun luck worse to some people. The surge nerf hit pretty hard too, and that was only a few weeks later if I remember correctly. I'm still kind of annoyed by that, because stacking surge is basically pointless once you hit about 75%. (800 surge rating = 80%. 600 surge rating - 80%. 200 surge rating = 70%. How is that even balanced to other stats like power with hardly any diminishing returns.)

It's funny that someone upthread mentioned the basic attack during CD periods. I remember getting into a discussion in my guild about rotations and they all thought it was odd that I had the basic attack on my toolbar. At the time I hadn't started any alts and didn't realize that no one else was using basic attacks at all.

I have the basic attack on every char except Sage/Sorc. For trooper/BH/Agent/Smuggler, it's useful when you're managing energy (NOT when you're 'out' - if you regularly run out, you're managing your energy poorly). For Cdo/Merc, your basic attack is integral to your healing spec (though not, perhaps, in PvP). For JK/SW and Assassin/Shadow, it's useful when you're out of energy. For Sage/Sorc? If you've run out of energy, you have no business running into combat and swinging your glowly stat stick.