I understand this argument, I just don't understand the impact of it.

I think his point is that nobody would risk getting killed just to work for G0-T0, oh there's that nice shiny other exchange group that isn't being killed by thin air, thanks for the job, but erm Ima go work for him now.

.... and what weaknesses are those......?

 

Force powers are not simply gained on the spot. The entire point of droids is that they can be upgraded. The Force is not an upgrade. Traya doesn't gain powers by leveling up. She isn't a Force goddess that knows all the secrets.

actually the entire premise of TSL is that the leveling up mechanic is a character getting stronger by devouring their strength through the force, which Kreia has done quite a bit. She's also a historian, and it is the historians that often know and learn the deeper, darker mysteries of the force.

also, to quote a famous Sith lord, "The darkside is a pathway to many abilities some would consider... unnatural..."

And it's in a Darkside Nexus. In any Force nexus, your powers are heightened, strengthened, and potentially new possibilities are opened up. The thought bomb comes to mind, and that was not generated inside of a Force nexus.

HK weaknesses:

arrogance

cheap durasteel knockoffs of HK-47

weakness to ion weapons and electricity (force lightning)

a pod of 3 were destroyed by a utility droid. They're not that strong, lol.

No I mean the droids specifically, I am fairly sure only shield generators/cloaking devices sizeable enough for vessels could commit such an advanced stealth field, personal generators cannot, as far as I have seen reading up on them.

Well, I know there's stealth generators such as this:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth_field_generator

And this:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sound_dampening_stealth_unit

Which can be worn by individual people and come with built-in dampening fields that reduce sound and most probably these... um.....oscullions or whatever.

Well, I know there's stealth generators such as this:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth_field_generator

 

And this:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sound_dampening_stealth_unit

 

Which can be worn by individual people and come with built-in dampening fields that reduce sound and most probably these... um.....oscullions or whatever.

darkside nexus = heightened senses = HK-Operative Nerf, lol

Well, I know there's stealth generators such as this:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth_field_generator

 

And this:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sound_dampening_stealth_unit

 

Which can be worn by individual people and come with built-in dampening fields that reduce sound and most probably these... um.....oscullions or whatever.

Ah I am afraid dampening sound and not giving off energy are two very different things, I suspected this was the case.

The Sith don't need to hear or see you, if they can sense your energy trace.

Also, to quote a famous Sith lord, "The darkside is a pathway to many abilities some would consider... unnatural..."

You make a good point. Maybe Traya did learn Force Speed while leveling up in her time with the Exile. Unfortunately, this is pre-KotOR II Traya, so this leveling up has not happened yet, and thus she has not learned it.

And Force speed is not a dark side power.

HK weaknesses:

 

arrogance

cheap durasteel knockoffs of HK-47

weakness to ion weapons and electricity (force lightning)

 

a pod of 3 were destroyed by a utility droid. They're not that strong, lol.

When did I ever disregard those weaknesses...?

Anyways, arrogance never stopped them from being effective assassins. And where is it stated they're made of "cheap durasteel?" If you mean they're worse than HK-47, that's because HK-47 was personally built and upgraded by Revan.

Same as T3. T3 was pretty amazing. He's not a normal droid. He did face the Sith Emporer, after all. Not to mention the fact that the HK-50 droids are meant to kill biologicals, not droids. And they used flamethrowers a lot, which have never been that great against droids.

Ah I am afraid dampening sound and not giving off energy are two very different things, I suspected this was the case.

 

The Sith don't need to hear or see you, if they can sense your energy trace.

Well firstly, what exactly are these things Traya is sensing? Because from the Wikipedia entry all I got is that they're the sounds made by movement, seeing as they're in machines and living things.

And second, if it's energy she's sensing, this would be off-put by the energy made by the storms which frequently have electrical charges such as lightning.

You make a good point. Maybe Traya did learn Force Speed while leveling up in her time with the Exile. Unfortunately, this is pre-KotOR II Traya, so this leveling up has not happened yet, and thus she has not learned it.

 

And Force speed is not a dark side power.

 

 

 

When did I ever disregard those weaknesses...?

 

Anyways, arrogance never stopped them from being effective assassins. And where is it stated they're made of "cheap durasteel?" If you mean they're worse than HK-47, that's because HK-47 was personally built and upgraded by Revan.

 

Same as T3. T3 was pretty amazing. He's not a normal droid. He did face the Sith Emporer, after all. Not to mention the fact that the HK-50 droids are meant to kill biologicals, not droids. And they used flamethrowers a lot, which have never been that great against droids.

Ah, no. Actually, some flamethrowers in Star Wars were hot enough to melt droids, so there is a good chance HK50s' flamethrowers can be effective against droids. Need to find the exact reference, but this is mentioned when Walon Vau (Cuy'val Dar trainer during the Clone Wars) uses a Blaze Trooper's flamethrower (might be a different flamer) to cover his boys' escape after raiding the vaults of Mygeeto.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_blaze_trooper

also, as far as we have seen, HK-50s were only demonstrated to be effective against protocol droids~Harbingers' protocol and utility droids as well as the protocol droid in Vogga's warehouse. Again, you overestimate the strength of HK-50s.

Point being you're wrong.

Force heal is also not a darkside power, but we saw Kreia revive Colonel Tobin after the Battle of Onderon. You don't truly know the extent of Kreia's powers pre-Kotor II. She was stripped of her power and, reasonably so, every power she gained during her travels with the Exile she may have simply regained. IE whatever powers she has post-exile, or was hiding post-exile, she had pre-exile.

I haven't posted in this thread for a long time, but I have been watching.

....Signing off now but one thing I should point out, Force sight - Traya can see through stealth with it, and she can see droids.

Well firstly, what exactly are these things Traya is sensing? Because from the Wikipedia entry all I got is that they're the sounds made by movement, seeing as they're in machines and living things.

 

And second, if it's energy she's sensing, this would be off-put by the energy made by the storms which frequently have electrical charges such as lightning.

She is detecting the oscillations of energy given off by the cluster of droids.

Also, the planet itself didn't receive actual lightning attacks, it was the orbit that was giving off what was basically an ion storm, which crashed the Ebon Hawk, If such oscillations could be so easily drowned out by other forms of energy, the energy given off by the facility itself would have been enough, clearly her technique is more sensitively refined than that.

 

....Signing off now but one thing I should point out, Force sight - Traya can see through stealth with it, and she can see droids.

Why do I forget the smallest but most crucial things.... *Picard facepalm*

Also, as far as we have seen, HK-50s were only demonstrated to be effective against protocol droids~Harbingers' protocol and utility droids as well as the protocol droid in Vogga's warehouse. Again, you overestimate the strength of HK-50s.

Well firstly, the single HK unit did kill very single miner on the Peragus station.

But please, if I am over estimating them, do tell me how effective they are in a not biased manner.

 

....Signing off now but one thing I should point out, Force sight - Traya can see through stealth with it, and she can see droids.

*Sigh* Fine.

I guess they'll just have to drop down and attack Traya directly as a distraction while another HK drops an explosive on them. Still simple.

Well firstly, the single HK unit did kill very single miner on the Peragus station.

 

But please, if I am over estimating them, do tell me how effective they are in a not biased manor.

only if you return the favor.

Remember the miners were stupid and already at eachothers' throats. They were barely under the intelligence of GOTO's exchange goons.

Also, Beni just destroyed any hope of you being able to sneak past her with stealth generators. And again, Destroy Droid, Lightning, Force Sight, buhbye.

*Sigh* Fine.

 

I guess they'll just have to drop down and attack Traya directly as a distraction while another HK drops an explosive on them. Still simple.

If Traya can sense them, she can teach her Sith hosts to do so as well, which means the droids all of a sudden have no way to surprise the Sith, whereas the Sith have the ability to surprise the Hk-50 droids, meaning traps and ambushes, the droids really don't stand a chance against the whole host of the Triumvirate.

If Traya can sense them, she can teach her Sith hosts to do so as well, which means the droids all of a sudden have no way to surprise the Sith, whereas the Sith have the ability to surprise the Hk-50 droids, meaning traps and ambushes, the droids really don't stand a chance against the whole host of the Triumvirate.

don't forget that in order to drop down they'd have to get past a sith fleet. And malachor's atmosphere. And Storm Beasts. And Vet Sith infantry. And Sith Lords.

buhbye.

don't forget that in order to drop down they'd have to get past a sith fleet. And malachor's atmosphere. And Storm Beasts. And Vet Sith infantry. And Sith Lords.

 

buhbye.

My point is that, without the stealth on their side, it's game over pretty much and if the Yacht gets blown up, G0-T0 has no way to control his droids because his Yacht is also his droid command center.

Only if you return the favor.

 

Remember the miners were stupid and only at eachothers' throats.

 

Also, Beni just destroyed any hope of you being able to sneak past her with stealth generators.

*Rubs temples*

I am trying to be pleasant, but you're being awfully abrasive.

I did bring this up early on in this Kaggath, and I suppose I will again. This is the least biased evaluation of the HK unit's power you will ever find. I promise.

---

We can compare the HK-50s to the HK-51s:

"Schematics for HK generation 51: Blaster to accuracy ratio: increased by 21%. Durasteel impact frame resistance: increased. Conclusion: halting production. Units are in standby mode, pending further testing of behavior cores and assassination protocols." ―Log of the HK-51's development status

So the HK-51's were upgraded versions of the HK-50s in accuracy and defense. (Which doesn't mean the HK-50's weren't plenty good in both already.)

So any abilities the HK-51's have in SWTOR can be translated to the HK-50's here, with a debuff to accuracy and a lower armor rating. That's what I got for their combat effectiveness.

If Traya can sense them, she can teach her Sith hosts to do so as well, which means the droids all of a sudden have no way to surprise the Sith, whereas the Sith have the ability to surprise the Hk-50 droids, meaning traps and ambushes, the droids really don't stand a chance against the whole host of the Triumvirate.

As part of your quote you mentioned that the Exile could not grasp Traya's sight. I'm not sure how easy it'll be for her to teach the entire Sith Triumvirate. It takes time to learn Force skills. And Force Sight isn't exactly simple.

My point is that, without the stealth on their side, it's game over pretty much and if the Yacht gets blown up, G0-T0 has no way to control his droids because his Yacht is also his droid command center.

Knowing there is a ship in the area and being able to blow it out of the sky are two totally different things.

As part of your quote you mentioned that the Exile could not grasp Traya's sight. I'm not sure how easy it'll be for her to teach the entire Sith Triumvirate. It takes time to learn Force skills. And Force Sight isn't exactly simple.

I didn't mean she couldn't learn it, only that she didn't share the ability with Traya, it basically says she re-learnt precognition at the time, I don't think Traya ever tried to teach the Exile her very specific 'Sense Energy' if you want to call it that.

I am glad you have decided to join us my old friend, I am also glad that you've joined the right side of the debate. *Palpatine grin*

Well I took a long time to consider everything and all of the points put forth. That and I was on a sort of 'mini vacation' so I was busy.

Knowing there is a ship in the area and being able to blow it out of the sky are two totally different things.

G0-T0's yacht can't escape with the interdictors there and all the Sith need to do is capture an Hk-50 droid and get it to tell them where the yacht is, via torture, they are not totally loyal, they do give up information, case in point:

Once one of the droids do give up it's position or a rendezvous point, the Sith cruisers will turn that glorified pleasure yacht into just another hollow vessel joining the graveyard of Malachor V.

G0-T0's yacht can't escape with the interdictors there and all the Sith need to do is capture an Hk-50 droid and get it to tell them where the yacht is, via torture, they are not totally loyal, they do give up information, case in point:

Once one of the droids do give up it's position or a rendezvous point, the Sith cruisers will turn that glorified pleasure yacht into just another hollow vessel joining the graveyard of Malachor V.

I lol'd at the torture scene, but its also not like they can't dismantle an HK droid either. Though torture should be hilarious.

I understand this argument, I just don't understand the impact of it.

The point is that, how many criminals are going to want to sign up with G0-T0 when they start to see bodies pile up? They will see death as a certainty. Some criminals are brave, but not brave enough to join up with someone when death is almost certain. You may even see Exchange members abandon G0-T0 in the face of this danger. Each member of the Exchange is going to ask themselves one question: Is getting paid by G0-T0 worth the high chance of dying?

Traya's Assassins create paranoia. G0-T0's HKs do not because of the simple fact that Traya's servants are bound to her and consumed by darkness.