To be realistic it probably needs to borrrow from a wide variety of sources, from martial arts, kendo, fencing, and historical recreations where swords are used slightly differently.

I Agree - I also think that if they are going for Lightsaber forms that they should actually make them a bit more distinctively recognisable from each other.....

For Example Dooku's Makashi borrowed heavily from European fencing so this made it stand out.

Maul's Juyo seemed to be pretty heavily Wushu based which again made it stand out as something a bit different

Yoda's computer generated Ataru with its spins and flips was again something uniquely recognisable...... However everyone else's style looked somewhat Generic despite what form they were supposed to be using....

Perhaps they need to put a bit more Emphasis on crafting the Various forms -

For Example lets take Soresu (III) and Djem So (V) - Soresu formed the Basis of Djem So -

In this Case I would Make the Base style of Both of these Kendo - but for Soresu I would probably expand it with more circular/defensive Tai Chi Style movements and for Djem So I would add in European Broadsword and Longsword techniques to emphasise the more aggressive powerful strikes......

This is a basic example but i think you will get what I mean from it.

But Yes, I am definitely interested in Seeing what they do with the Lightsaber sequences in the New Movies.

I don't think it would make any difference at all for a few reasons.

1.) 99.9999% of the viewing population would not know the difference anyway.

2.) 99.9999% of the viewing population does not know or even care that there are supposed to be different forms of lightsaber fighting styles.

3.) Most of the real world sword fighting techniques are created via necessity. The biggest contributing factor being Armor. Different Armors are the main reason that different swords, sword shapes and fighting techniques were brought into being to begin with.

Very little of the reasons for different sword fighting techniques exist in the star wars universe because, we are dealing with... well plasma or laser swords. Because we are dealing with weapons with no appreciable weight or blade shape differences to take into account, or much in the way of armor to deal with, which in the real world affects the type of material or blade shape, the biggest, and only practical contributors in the initial reason to develop a "style" to begin with, the only real reason to develop different lightsaber forms would be to accommodate users of more exotic type weapons, such as Mauls Double bladed lightsaber or for dual wielding.

So in short I don't think they will be taking lightsaber forms into account when making the movie. I do however think that fans will assign forms to what they see on the screen after the fact, even though the fight choreographers would have had nothing more in mind than.... will that cool cool on the big screen.

I don't think it would make any difference at all for a few reasons.

1.) 99.9999% of the viewing population would not know the difference anyway.

2.) 99.9999% of the viewing population does not know or even care that there are supposed to be different forms of lightsaber fighting styles.

3.) Most of the real world sword fighting techniques are created via necessity. The biggest contributing factor being Armor. Different Armors are the main reason that different swords, sword shapes and fighting techniques were brought into being to begin with.

Very little of the reasons for different sword fighting techniques exist in the star wars universe because, we are dealing with... well plasma or laser swords. Because we are dealing with weapons with no appreciable weight or blade shape differences to take into account, or much in the way of armor to deal with, which in the real world affects the type of material or blade shape, the biggest, and only practical contributors in the initial reason to develop a "style" to begin with, the only real reason to develop different lightsaber forms would be to accommodate users of more exotic type weapons, such as Mauls Double bladed lightsaber or for dual wielding.

So in short I don't think they will be taking lightsaber forms into account when making the movie. I do however think that fans will assign forms to what they see on the screen after the fact, even though the fight choreographers would have had nothing more in mind than.... will that cool cool on the big screen.

You are quite right on that, but some of us found the swordplay interesting.

My favorite was between Mace and Palpatine. It certainly wasn't flashy, but the precision strikes did catch my eye. Especially when, near the end, they would do the single swipe passes. I noticed Mace and Palpatine use an overhand and both tried the use the initial as a feint and slip their blade to the under arm to cut the Brachial Artery (?) and both sacrificed the cut to avoid they themselves being cut.

It was cool.

That's funny...ericsbane brings up something that I've been pondering recently. Realistically, what should lightsaber fighting look like? As he/she said, the blade has no appreciable weight, there's no edge to consider, and there's no need for strength and momentum, as the blade instantly cuts through whatever it touches. Under those constraints, the closest real-world parallel I can think of is epee or foil fencing -- which, oddly enough, no fight choreography that we've seen in Star Wars really looks like. Not cinematic enough, I guess.

I just hope that the choreography is less lazy that Episode 2 or 3; I think George Lucas took the "it just has to look cool, the audience will never notice" thing a little too far. I mean, what's up with that part in Ep 3 where Obi-Wan and Anakin are standing about three feet apart, swinging their blades like crazy, and not making any contact. That's just...ugh.

The choreography in Episode 1 was pretty brilliant. It was both functional and stylish, looked great and not over the top.

As long as it's nothing like the ridiculous ballet crap in 2 and 3, I'll be pleased.

I'm not sure really. I agree with the above poster that the lightsaber combat in Episode 1 was awesome, and went down in 2 & 3. Except the Yoda vs Dooku fight, that was quality. What happened is they got a too bogged down in eye candy and really good moments where drowned out by 'twirly twirly'.

I don't know if any of you watch the TCW but I'd like to see lightsaber combat something akin to that. Its not too flashy, you get a real sense of emotion in the fighting, and it looks realistic. I think this could easily be applied the new films, Lucasfilm seem to have perfected the whole lightsaber combat thing and as their co-producing with Bad Robot (which has no experience in lightsaber choreography) they will likely be heavily involved in that area. Here's an

Fights like that in Episode 1 would do be fine though, just rewatched the duel with Maul and its awesome. Absolutely perfect.

I mean, what's up with that part in Ep 3 where Obi-Wan and Anakin are standing about three feet apart, swinging their blades like crazy, and not making any contact. That's just...ugh.

For that bit, its because Anakin and Obi-Wan were so in-sync and knew eachother so well that they were anticipating every attack knowing where to block, hence why they were swinging cause nether of them was able to find an opening. Or at least that is what I remember reading.

For that bit, its because Anakin and Obi-Wan were so in-sync and knew eachother so well that they were anticipating every attack knowing where to block, hence why they were swinging cause nether of them was able to find an opening. Or at least that is what I remember reading.

I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for it -- maybe they were seeing the future in the Force, and were racing to "out-see" the other person, or that were trapped in some sort of loop of feints and counter-feints. But if you compare that to the final duel of Episode 1 (which, I would argue, is the best-choreographed duel of the entire saga), it just looks silly. In that fight, every blow was an attempt to cut the other person.

It may just be that what they were trying to convey did not translate to the screen (for me, at least). I can sort of get my head around "I went to make a move, but he moved to block it, so I adjusted to another move, and he adjusted to my adjustment..." ad nauseum, but it doesn't map to my knowledge of how swordfights work. Or, more to the point, processing and anticipating at that level doesn't jibe with every other swordfight in the saga.

Or maybe it's just me.

I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for it -- maybe they were seeing the future in the Force, and were racing to "out-see" the other person, or that were trapped in some sort of loop of feints and counter-feints. But if you compare that to the final duel of Episode 1 (which, I would argue, is the best-choreographed duel of the entire saga), it just looks silly. In that fight, every blow was an attempt to cut the other person.

 

It may just be that what they were trying to convey did not translate to the screen (for me, at least). I can sort of get my head around "I went to make a move, but he moved to block it, so I adjusted to another move, and he adjusted to my adjustment..." ad nauseum, but it doesn't map to my knowledge of how swordfights work. Or, more to the point, processing and anticipating at that level doesn't jibe with every other swordfight in the saga.

 

Or maybe it's just me.

Well you kinda do need to suspend some disbelief in movies, so that you can enjoy them. Trying to throw in RL logic, usually just makes the viewing bad.

Well you kinda do need to suspend some disbelief in movies, so that you can enjoy them. Trying to throw in RL logic, usually just makes the viewing bad.

If a movie depends on the viewer throwing away logic and reason to stand on its own two feet, it is not a good movie. Suspension of disbelief =/= suspension of common sense.

If a movie depends on the viewer throwing away logic and reason to stand on its own two feet, it is not a good movie. Suspension of disbelief =/= suspension of common sense.

Well then trying to apply RL fighting against guys that can do crap with their minds, heightened their senses and bodies to the extreme your gonna look at it in a bad way, am just using the universe's logic in explaining the whole spin thing with Anakin and Obi-Wan.

...and there's no need for strength and momentum, as the blade instantly cuts through whatever it touches.

Not true actually, theres resistance whenever the blade touches or cuts though something. For example, in episode 1 when Qui-gon is cutting through the blast doors on the sep ship, he is visibly putting all of his strength into it.

Well then trying to apply RL fighting against guys that can do crap with their minds, heightened their senses and bodies to the extreme your gonna look at it in a bad way, am just using the universe's logic in explaining the whole spin thing with Anakin and Obi-Wan.

You tried to, anyway, and failed. There is no logical reason in-universe or otherwise for them to stand a foot apart and spin their lightsabers around uselessly. It's pointless eye candy.

The over-choreographing completely ruined the Obi/Ani duel. What a travesty.

You tried to, anyway, and failed. There is no logical reason in-universe or otherwise for them to stand a foot apart and spin their lightsabers around uselessly. It's pointless eye candy.

 

The over-choreographing completely ruined the Obi/Ani duel. What a travesty.

No there was a reason and I gave it your just not wanting to accept it.

the blade has no appreciable weight, there's no edge to consider, and there's no need for strength and momentum, as the blade instantly cuts through whatever it touches. Under those constraints, the closest real-world parallel I can think of is epee or foil fencing

As an epeeist I'd have to disagree with you there. Out of the 3 weapons, I'd say sabre is the closest by a long stretch - if I could kill someone just by touching them with a lightsabre I'd be slashing, not stabbing. Obviously you'd have to remove the right of way rules, which is why only force users could realistically fight with them. Any other two people would almost certainly just instantly kill each other.

You tried to, anyway, and failed. There is no logical reason in-universe or otherwise for them to stand a foot apart and spin their lightsabers around uselessly. It's pointless eye candy.

 

The over-choreographing completely ruined the Obi/Ani duel. What a travesty.

And there's absolutely no reason for Jedi to start a lightsaber fight with their style's distinct move, yet they still do. For example, Dooku and Obi Wan does it in the movies.

Obi Wan also uses soresu form which relies on keeping the blade moving and using the momentum to strike. It's a defensive style which relies on parrying and waiting for openings to attack. This would explain why he was spinning his saber around like that, he was keeping up his momentum and waiting to counter an attack from Anakin, but Anakin didn't attack right away, and thus all that blade spinning.

Anakin uses djem so which combines the defensiveness of soresu with the more aggressiveness of makashi. This would explain why he spun the blade around like that too, he was waiting for an opportunity to strike as well.

The producers should aim higher with their fight choreography. Every time I watch an East Asian action flick with elaborate swordplay I'm amazed at how tame and amateurish the duels in SW look by comparison.

Many of the actors in these Asian flicks are not highly trained martial artists so ability cap ceiling is not a valid excuse. I appreciate what folks like Nick Gillard and Bob Anderson did in the past but the SW folks really should look around the world and get the best trainers/coreographer talent into the movie.

The producers should aim higher with their fight choreography. Every time I watch an East Asian action flick with elaborate swordplay I'm amazed at how tame and amateurish the duels in SW look by comparison.

 

Many of the actors in these Asian flicks are not highly trained martial artists so ability cap ceiling is not a valid excuse. I appreciate what folks like Nick Gillard and Bob Anderson did in the past but the SW folks really should look around the world and get the best trainers/coreographer talent into the movie.

Actually most of them are familiar with martial arts. It's part of them growing up. Whereas we have PE classes where we learn to play sports, a lot of Asian countries have martial arts type stuff.

No there was a reason and I gave it your just not wanting to accept it.

No, I understand that they had a reason for filming that scene that way, but it didn't translate onto the screen. Th in-universe explanation doesn't justify the terrible choreography nor excuse the terrible idea to begin with.

Actually most of them are familiar with martial arts. It's part of them growing up. Whereas we have PE classes where we learn to play sports, a lot of Asian countries have martial arts type stuff.

They are marginally more familiar with martial arts than kids in other countries but familiarity does not mean highly trained, nor does it suggest a higher proclivity to succeed when undergoing intense training.

My point is that the experts, choreographers and movie combat gurus over there can put this stuff together in a cinematic context better than anyone else and if the Disney folks are smart they will try to find the best talent for each element of these flicks.

On the other hand, if they feel that live action can't match their vision for the fight scenes, they should look at maybe merging live action and computer animation. If you look at the SWTOR trailers like "Return", those fight scenes would be a good starting point. Could that choreography be achieved purely with actors and wire-fu? If so, great. If not, then use computers. Without sounding too machiavellian, the end result should dictate the methods, not vice versa. I doubt your average actor could transition between single to double to twin lightsabers seamlessly and without looking like a flunky in a Youtube lightsaber duel so maybe this is the way to go.