I've (whilst) leveling ran into quite a bit of situation where I wonder if I should remove someone from the group or not... Just wondered where other people draw the line. And when is behaviour so 'harmful' it deserves a report according to you? Do you ignore people easily just to avoid teaming with them again? Ever. At level 55 it's often so harmful someone else has pressed vote to kick way before I made up my mind. But needing only 2 votes to kick in a 4-man group makes me very wary of initiating one.

Wrongly specced (or wrong stance + refusing to change it, changing it back etc.)

Say someone queue'd as both DPS and Tank/Healer (something I often do thanks to free respec + field respec) but isn't able or simply isn't fulfilling his role. Especially while leveling and very rare times in 50/55s I came around DPS specced as healer or the other way around. Do you replace them so they (hopefully) won't do it again? Do you simply tell them and hope they won't do it again? Do you wait to see if they attempt to atleast fulfill their role? If so do you kick them when they obviously can't manage? And those in tanking stance? Who refuse to change when you ask? Do you ever compensate for it and play the role you didn't initially queue'd for, but are able to fill?

I'm always a bit torn on this aspect. The trees clearly state what you are, it's behind the trees name in brackets... There is this thing called field respec (200k is reasonably affordable if it's not your first character) so people are definitly in the wrong and in some cases they won't be able to complete the flashpoint due to them wanting a faster queue. So what do you do?

Ninja's

Oh my biggest bane and yet something I NEVER did something about, coming to regret it big-time yesterday. The need and greed system is very clear imo. If not you can always ask in chat if say need is also for a companion or just your character and greed speaks for itself, you're greedy and want to sell it to a vendor. But still I feel bad kicking them, do you kick ninja's? Ignore them? Report them? What do you do with them? Especially in end-game you know they're stealing a piece of gear that they often can't even use on a companion to vendor is for 12k, where-as some people would pay 200k + materials just to get something similar crafted...

Rude behaviour

Say people are being a bit too aggressive when they ask people to skip conversation (aka call them names) or insult other people because they are not exactly what he expects (or wants) from them. Obviously non-contructive and mean critisim, not helpful hints and tips or even tactics. Or DPS's that run to aggro the next mob whilst at ~50% health and with 3 mobs still to kill from the last pull etc. Or even just DPS's (or healers or whatever) pulling after being asked not to?

And ofcourse the toughest one...

The weakest link

Say you've been trying to tackle a flashpoint or GF-operation but your team simply can't pull through... Do you give up as a team or do you kick say that one weak DPS on enrage timers or the tank/healer when you see they simply aren't pulling their own weight or doing their job? Or that one person not doing needed tactics even after explaining them more than once?

I really hope your replies will help me decide where to draw the line in the future. Because I've noticed that often people that don't deserve it become the victim, like that tank that got kicked by both DPS simply because he said in a polite way that they should spec DPS if they also queue as DPS (they were specced as healer and tank, but came in a DPS and there's free field respec (200k once but w/e for crying out loud.) Or one of the many Ninja victims.

Wrongly specced (or wrong stance + refusing to change it, changing it back etc.)

Has both specs(with gear included where necessary) but entered FP while in other spec than his random role, that's fine, even when he has to go to fleet and respec. No problem.

Unless he's queued into wrong role, and refuses to do his job. Then by all means it's fine to kick him, altough deciding factor is how he behaves and if group can manage despite that setback.

Ninja's

Ninja happens. Sometimes it's "I saw everyone greeding this and my companion could really use some help" and sometimes it's "I need because FU". No need for kicks when you can resolve situation by talking. But if you can't, kick is way to go.

Rude behaviour

For "spacebar spacebar spacebar you idiots", best punishment is ignore + sit back and enoy your cutscenes.. For people ignoring requests to calm down or don't pull/knockback/something, kicking is best solution

The weakest link

At begining check for gear etc, if at least in theory he has chance to pull his weight. If you have to kick anyone for it, do it now.

If later it appears that your overall healing/dps is not enough, try some more, try to pull out more power, do what he's lacking. SM ops are not tighly balanced and one undergeared player shouldn't be a problem, so it's not only him. In FP it tends to be more severe, and there is no lockout, so it's not that big thing if you get kicked (unless it's bonus boss, then just skip it). Politely explain that your group can't complete it because he's clearly not good enough for it(or put it some other way ) and that's it.

Unless it's someone with serious issues with mechanics and it's simply not possible to cover for him (mostly on puzzle bosses). No point in wiping constantly hoping he'll finally understand what he's supposed to do.

Wrongly specced (or wrong stance + refusing to change it, changing it back etc.)

 

Ninja's

 

 

Rude behaviour

 

 

The weakest link

.

I will submit a vote kick for any of these in a PUG, especially the first two - if they're a combination of the last one and its clear they're the weakest link (wearing willpower gear as a Marauder), then I'll be like "cmon... get that right."

I mainly run group finder with my guild, which prevents me from crossing the PUGs of SWTOR, but I know just how bad one person can be, I had someone tell me in HM BT that they were the tank, and we went at their pace (3/4 group was 55), tank stopped after every pull for 2-3 minutes, so I threw on my tank stance and tanked the rest of the way through.

Wrongly specced (or wrong stance + refusing to change it, changing it back etc.)

I know this example isn't from "while leveling".... but it's indicative of things I see across the board.

On monday I joined a pug group on my Vanguard tank for an 8-man SM S&V (GF)... I know pugging on a Monday night is always scary, but I'd had a busy RL week, and I still hadn't done it yet, so I was taking the last chance I'd get. We couldn't find a 4th dps, but we had our other 7 members, so we hit the GF for the last DPS, which was an insta-pop.

It was.... a DPS Shadow (using Shadow Technique).... Now, I know that HP isn't the perfect indicator of someone's gear, because more isn't always better, BUT it is a quick/easy way to see if someone is remotely close to what they should be..... Fully buffed, he had just over 21k HP. Now, the other 3 dps in the group, were geared appropriately for SM S&V, but nowhere NEAR being overgeared, so straight up carrying a DPS wasn't really going to be an option.

So I inspect the guy's gear, and his achievements, and noted 3 things:

1- Not a single piece of 63, 66 or 69 gear... Not a single augment. He was in a mix of leveling gear (green 51-53s/etc) 58s and a few 61s.

2- His achievements: Not a single one for ANY operation.

3- He was using a shield offhand.

I could have dealt with him not knowing the operation... I'll explain the fights everytime if people need to learn since it's their first time. I could even deal with his lack of gear, IF we had better geared other DPS, and maybe the chance that the character was an alt and he was a good player, just skipping other content (which the achievements kind of proved otherwise)....

I actually questioned him in chat about the shield issue, because I was curious "Hey, how come you're wearing a shield as a DPS shadow?"

His answer: "It's best in slot for me. Helps my dps, and boost my ability to survive. How do you know what's best for my class?"

The general consensus from the rest of the group that was talking on Vent... was that we needed a better geared DPS. So I very politely told the guy in chat, that I would recommend, that before queueing again for Scum and Villainy/Terror From Beyond, he do Eternity Vault/Karagga's Palace to get some Hazmat at least, and them maybe run some 55 HM Flashpoints and gear up a little bit, but that our group, wouldn't be able to carry him in this op.

All he said was "It'll be fine, stop telling me what to do, and let's do this thing."

-------> Initiate Vote Kick <-----------

HE WENT BALLISTIC!!!!

"[expletive] you guys! You [expletive]'ing mother[expletive]ers. I can't believe you would vote kick me, and tell me how to play my [expletive]'ing class!!! You [expletive]'s made me look stupid in front of everyone.."

There may have been more, I am not sure.... because at that point, he had made 7 people's ignore list.

All of that said...... I will tolerate a lot of nonsense in the Group Finder for Flashpoints (at level and hard mode) and Operations, at least when it comes to gear, or knowledge of the fights, or even knowledge of a person's class. (I have a Sentinel, Vanguard, Mercenary and Sage at 55, all Arkanian minimum geared, and I am about to have an end-game Assassin tank.... I don't know ALL the classes, but I know enough about a lot of them to give people pointers and advice if they are obviously struggling or underperforming.)

What I can't tolerate... leveling OR endgame: People who are undergeared, inexperienced, incapable of accepting advice AND/OR plain old stupid. I can usually deal with one of those conditions, but when all of them exist at one time?

------> Initiate Vote Kick <---------

I have initiated a vote kick twice in any group content in this game, once kicked a very talented tank in HM D7 and the other time was a decent dps in HM FE. Both kicks were for the same reason, if someone is abusing and belittling another player I will initiate a vote kick. So that is my line.

All the rest I will vote for a kick, only if the person refuses to explain their actions or refuses to listen to the group, but usually this will not make me initiate a kick unless they get abusive instead of accepting friendly valid advice.

Disclaimer: I have been playing since launch, mainly a healer in group content and PUGs. I have voted to voice kick someone a total of 4 times. 3 times for abusing, belittling another player and once for a ninja. I have never been kicked, but then again I have done my best to always respect the group, always been geared appropriately, never q as anything but my proper role and always tried to be fair with gear and tried my best to be understanding of different players abilities and knowledge of the game and instances (I fail at this sometimes, but I fail in private at this).

Well last night I was playing my 17 Jug tank and I was kicked from a group in SM Hammer Station because I rolled need for an Orange set of medium armor strength based legs (Mara was in the group) that first of all was an upgrade over what I had (green medium armor legs from Korriban) and additionally I intended to rip the mods and put them into either heavy armor or adaptable legs. Needless to say I was surprised at first but I don't know maybe things have changed. Again it was a straight upgrade and would be a further upgrade if i ripped and put into heavy or adaptable armor. Wanted to get peoples opinions on this because I was surprised.

To the OP, in this same group I had two healing classes, a sorc and merc, and neither healed at all and I did not initiate a vote kick. I sucked it up and died at least 6-7 times and never said anything mainly because at level 17 I expect this kind of behavior and sadly accept it as part of the group finder. On a side note I was happy I was kicked because I just reqeued and got another group as a tank immediately and clear without any more wipes lol.

Well last night I was playing my 17 Jug tank and I was kicked from a group in SM Hammer Station because I rolled need for an Orange set of medium armor strength based legs (Mara was in the group) that first of all was an upgrade over what I had (green medium armor legs from Korriban) and additionally I intended to rip the mods and put them into either heavy armor or adaptable legs. Needless to say I was surprised at first but I don't know maybe things have changed. Again it was a straight upgrade and would be a further upgrade if i ripped and put into heavy or adaptable armor. Wanted to get peoples opinions on this because I was surprised.

No way I would have kicked a level 17 tank over that.

Why?

Well..... anyone who has ever leveled a tank of ANY class... know that "tank" gear doesn't start showing up until well into your late 20s or so. And even then, it's rare to come across it. SO... leveling tanks, end up using armorings/mods/enhancements from anything that drops that has their mainstat.

Sadly, you got the short end of the stick because you are a Jugg....

Assassin/Shadow: All willpower gear, low level, will be applicable to you, because it's all LIGHT armor. The fact that it won't have mitigative stats on it, and will have Crit or Power/etc., is a non-issue, because tanking stuff doesn't really exist much (if at all honestly) at that level.... People probably wouldn't think twice about a tank needing on a piece like that....

Powertech/Vanguard: All Aim gear... applicable to you, because it's HEAVY armor. Same applies from above with regard to the secondary stats issue at that level.

Juggernaut/Guardian: Well... you are kinda screwed. Because while a medium armor peice might drop that is an upgrade for you, JUST because you use Heavy instead of Medium, the broad ideal is that "It's NOT for your class, it's for Marauders and Sentinels, and you are a douchenozzle if you NEED on it."

Would I get pissed at a Jugg/Guardian TANK or DPS in an at-level/storymode Flashpoint who rolled NEED on a medium armor piece or a dps piece of any kind, provided it was a Strength mainstat item????

Absolutely NOT.

Would I get pissed at a Jugg/Guardian DPS in a HM FP or Operation who rolled NEED on a Foestopper piece? (or vice versa)

Nope.

Would I get pissed at a Jugg/Guardian TANK in a HM FP or Operation who rolled NEED on a Foestopper piece?

Yes.

I have initiated a vote kick twice in any group content in this game, once kicked a very talented tank in HM D7 and the other time was a decent dps in HM FE. Both kicks were for the same reason, if someone is abusing and belittling another player I will initiate a vote kick. So that is my line.

 

All the rest I will vote for a kick, only if the person refuses to explain their actions or refuses to listen to the group, but usually this will not make me initiate a kick unless they get abusive instead of accepting friendly valid advice.

 

Disclaimer: I have been playing since launch, mainly a healer in group content and PUGs. I have voted to voice kick someone a total of 4 times. 3 times for abusing, belittling another player and once for a ninja. I have never been kicked, but then again I have done my best to always respect the group, always been geared appropriately, never q as anything but my proper role and always tried to be fair with gear and tried my best to be understanding of different players abilities and knowledge of the game and instances (I fail at this sometimes, but I fail in private at this).

It's almost like hearing myself talk. I've always acted like that and haven't as of yet initiated a vote kick (hence this thread really) because I'd feel bad for the person and I try to talk to them, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I've only been kicked once and that was initiated by a tank that got upset I 'also' scavenged 1 droid or so per group leaving plenty for him simply to speed it up (he let us wait 5 minutes before joining, then about 1 minute per group to scavenge every single droid, hence I wanted to clear half of them up after about 10 groups.) He didn't like that it didn't all go to him I guess.

How-ever past few weeks I've very often come to regret not kicking Ninja's because they steal not just my gear, but also from people who might not have a cybertech sitting back in case of bad luck, or Ninja's. And also people queueing wrong, someone says something about it politely and they got kicked, or without saying anything got kicked if they didn't want to respec to the role they didn't queue for just so he/she could play it. (Luckily those teams were rare and I feel I might have encountered the same friends a few times, thank you ignore.) All those times I felt SO horrible I saw the 'mistakes' and didn't kick them to just have 'another' victim.

Thank you all for the replies btw I appreciate it!

I'd never consider anyone needing on their main-stat gear in low-level flashpoints a Ninja. If everyone greeded it and I know they have a companion with that stat I'd also keep quit. Though asking if you can need on something is ofcourse always preferred in that case. Rest just... urgh ^^

I'm pretty easy going and I don't care to heal a godawful tank who is polite, or the DPS who wanders off the wrong direction, or anyone who is badly specced or even rolls on the wrong gear as long as they're apologetic and willing to correct the mistake.

For me to votekick it has to be a mix of rude behavior or ninja looting with something else. If you're awful and ninja loot, gone. A jerk and you queued as a tank but are neither specced for it nor know what you're doing, gone. I've only initiated once and voted Yes to someone else's vote once that I recall.

That's about it really. Learning/sucking is OK in my book as long as you're decent company. I'm still learning myself so would be rather hypocritical if I kicked for that, eh?

For me if a player is being abusive to another one I'll vote kick. If some on is unfairly kicked, I'll drop group. For inapropriately geared or under skilled players, I'll leave it to the discretion of the person who will have to pick up the other's slack. For instance, if one DPS is undergeared I'll leave it to the other to decide since they're the ones who will have to meet enrage timers. If it's a super soft tank the healer can decide if they're able to keep them up.

Now a couple months ago I was on my healer and phased into Cademimu. First couple pulls were aweful, the tank would crumble in half a second, but I saw him using slow time so it took me a bit to check his gear (my bad, I know). When I did I saw that he was all in DPS gear with a shield generator (with DPS mods) equipped. I asked him if he had any DPS gear thinking that this was a pvp set, and he said that he didn't since he was just trying out kinetic spec. I was slightly over geared by this point, on my main, and it was 2 in the morning and figured that waiting for another tank would be futile so we decide to take it careful by ccing, waiting for cool downs etc.

We did fairly well, though with no mitigation the tank could only hold one or two enemies while I face tanked the rest. We got up to the bonus boss, downed him with no problems, but a nice DPS piece dropped which he needed on and won. That piece was a good upgrade for one of our teammates that qued and waited in que as a DPS. He refused to trade the piece since DPS was his main spec. No ****.

That was the last straw. It was too inconsiderate. We were carrying him through that instance, and going extremely slow for him. Even if tank wasn't his main spec, he qued as one (probably for shorter ques) and should have only needed on that if nobody else did. *Shrug* Bowdar tanked the rest of it, and we tried to have the DPS kite the final boss, but Risha was pretty lousy at removing shackles. Lucky a real tank joined in for the last boss.

Did an Eternity Vault SM once, and one of our DPS, a Vanguard, came specced in Tank stance. This wasnt really much of a problem until we got to the 4th boss (the Dread Council), and the guy couldnt DPS his one down fast enough. We asked him to respec to DPS for this fight, and he and his friend (another DPS), both starting raging at the rest of the group for trying to tell them how to play there classes.

We kicked them both, got two decent replacements, last two bosses when down easily.

For my low level alts:

In the Hammer, Athiss, Mando, Cad flashpoints I had a trend when I was healing that every time I queued I'd find myself with a DPS that thought they could tank. I usually got lucky if I healed when I was at the bare minimum level and gear to get a good tank, but when I got these fake tanks I usually was geared well enough to scrape by if I wanted the challenge. That being said I'd try to strike up a conversation with the various tanks.

"Do you have your tank stance/cell?"

"I'm getting hit by these mobs a lot, could you guard me?"

"Could you please attack more then one mob?"

and lastly one of these

"Do you speak English" or "Do you read chat"

If I didn't get a response at all I started a vote kick. Any snide-remark I'd get, or other remark that conveyed a sense of entitlement and I'd vote kick. If I could heal it and they fessed up I'd just let them have their fun and enjoy a bit of a challenge. The same applied when a tank couldn't keep aggro well, or lost it to a DPS, if someone made me think they weren't entitled or and didn't try the 'I'm right, you're wrong, deal with it' stance I'd just ignore it. At those levels there's a lot of leeway and not much cost to a death so most groups seem to just ignore it.

Ninja looting usually gets a vote kick, seen more then a few get vote kicked between final boss and the actual mission complete flag. When people actually try to defend that it's their right to get every piece of loot and they did nothing but DPS the whole run it's annoying to say the least.

For my Endgame Characters:

If you aren't the right role you're as good as dead usually, so vote kick comes quick and hard, and sometimes before I even see if a DPS can tank, or heal, the latter being far more uncommon to actually see a single heal where there are tanks who can make due in nearly every fight when they're a dps in some way or form.

Ninja-looting gets you out and on my ignore list. Being a semi-fail to full fail player and winning all the loot in a run might get you kicked, but that one's more a personal issue given in early game I'll laugh it off with everyone else if it's an honest mistake. Obviously that one varies from role to role, player case to player case.

Wrongly specced (or wrong stance + refusing to change it, changing it back etc.)

I'll politely tell them, and see if they respec. If they respec, I leave them in. If they dont, votekick.

Ninja's

Instant votekick. I never accept anyone ninjalooting, period. If someone needs something that isnt for their class / advanced class (example, marauder needing on jugg armor (not moddable)), ****. This is something that annoys me to such an extent that if the rest of the group doesnt votekick, I leave the group and let them find a new tank or healer.

Rude behaviour

Rude people are really annoying. I never votekick them tho. If they ask 'SPACEBAR PLZ', I usually tell them they are derps, then /ignore.

The weakest link

I never votekick the weakest link. Ever. Unless he falls under the first point (wrong spec). Everyone has been there. Most people just need some help. This is what group finder is for.

I'd be willing to kick people in all 4 cases u mentioned, just in the first case, I wouldn't probably even notice wrong spec if it wasn't some obvious major problem causing multiple wipes.

But I have 2 principles that I follow - I always give people second chance and I always ask them to leave on their own before kicking them.

I'd be willing to kick people in all 4 cases u mentioned, just in the first case, I wouldn't probably even notice wrong spec if it wasn't some obvious major problem causing multiple wipes.

 

But I have 2 principles that I follow - I always give people second chance and I always ask them to leave on their own before kicking them.

i use kicks even in those cases when we agree that we are not going to clear the content..so the guy can queue immediatly.

for wrong spec/gear/stance i always ask if they can respec or switch..i usually don't mind if we have to skip bonus boss in 55hm and the rest of the content is doable easily with a tank geared guy..just switch stance/cell

ninja

no mercy, 100% of the times i've seen people asking if they could need for comp/alts they had affirmative answers so if you ignore decence you deserve your kick, or not responding to chat.

about rude people they usually rage quit..

Wrongly specced

if it do not lead to wipe - it's their problem

but i rather give an advice if i see that case

if we wipe because of that - tell them once, tell them twice

then replace

Ninja's

the most irritating

ask if it may be a fat fingers or just a mistake

if not - kick them right to the moon!

Rude behaviour

same here - you should behave yourself

The weakest link

never kick

except people refuse to learn

I Was que'd into an "Already in Progress" HM Hammer Station the other day with my commando healer and as soon as I entered, I get a tell from one of the dps "good luck with this tank" I notice the tank fully buffed sitting at 22k hp... So I inspected the tank as any one else with that kind of tell would do...

Now before I go on, the tank was a guardian tank. I am in a full white Gree set with full 69 mods.

Earpeice, Implants, Wrist, & Relics were Strength based DPS.

Head, chest, waist, gloves, legs, boots ... ... Willpower based tanking

The first thing that came out was "I am not moving to heal you till you can answer me a couple questions"

1. Why are you using a shadow tanking set? - no response
   
2. Have you tanked these before? - no response
   
3. Can you see what I am typing in chat? - no response
   

Must have spent the last 10 minutes typing those type of questions and sending tells to one of the other dps in the group which happened to be in the same guild as the tank asking if they could see what i was typing. I get a tell from the dps saying they can not see anything in chat from someone they do not know.

5 more minutes go on and a message comes from the tank in an emote type saying "Some people should stop trying to tell others what they should do or how to play and just because they are wearing a full Gree set does not make their gear any better than anybody else".

I was in the process of setting to kick the tank when the tank decided to leave and the dps which was in the same guild followed shortly after. I ended up asking the other dps in the group and guildies that were on what does wearing a full gree set have anything to do with knowing what your main stat is and how to gear your character at lvl 55?

Someone from above must have been looking down at us that day because as soon as we qued up for replacements, they showed up within 10 seconds and had no issues after that.

That reminds me of the pug sorcerer healer I had in a HM Eternity Vault one day, who had more HP than our tank, thanks to his full set of Fortitude Augments, not to mention his 2x Survivor Implants, Survivor Earpiece, full set of Force Wielder armorings/hilt..... and a slew of DEFENSE mods. When the tank in our group questioned him on his choice of gearing, he got quite upset and told the tank to mind his own business and to go do his job. Needless to say, he died on the last set of platform jumps, and instead of rezzing him, I just solo-healed the rest of the fight.

As a result of this player... it is commonplace in our guild nowadays for people to yell out at the beginning of a fight "GO SORC TANK GO!!!!!!!"

(It's our own little version of Leroy Jenkins.)

The only time I've initiated a vote-kick was in Cademinu HM. Started the run with two other guild members and just pugging a dps. Everything went fine until we got to the bonus boss. Then, for no discernible reason, the pug (a sorc dps) starts spamming dark heal and consumption repeatedly, not casting any attacks. At this point, our healer gets annoyed and asks what he's doing and telling him to dps. Instead, he continues to use dark heal and consumption (and at used Force Barrier for the full duration).

I voted to get rid of him as soon as the fight ended, still no idea why he opted to do that.

That reminds me of the pug sorcerer healer I had in a HM Eternity Vault one day, who had more HP than our tank ... As a result of this player... it is commonplace in our guild nowadays for people to yell out at the beginning of a fight "GO SORC TANK GO!!!!!!!"

 

(It's our own little version of Leroy Jenkins.)

Brilliant! This and some other funny stories here should totally go in the "The weird people you meet in group finder" thread.

To stay on topic:

Wrongly specc'd: It annoys me but I will only initiate or vote to kick if the flashpoint is impossible to do with them. As in, either they re-pec and we still wipe, or they refuse to re-spec or change stance.

Ninjas: it personally only matters to me in Endgame content when I need the gear- it's harder to come by than lowbie stuff (I have Cybertech and hoard Planetary Comms). If it happens then and they don't give a good reason why and don't make it right, I will leave or vote to kick. I won't give them another chance.

Rude behaviour: My biggest peeve. If it's one member, I will vote to kick them. If it's two or the whole group I'll leave but not before I've put them on /ignore.

Usually if the whole group's rude it's an indicator that you may be the problem, but I have had it happen to me once before in a lowbie flashpoint- the DPS would jump into the fray straight away without ever healing themselves or letting me get my Force back (I was healing). After I asked them to, they TOLD me it was my JOB to keep them healed. I tried pointing out that it's possible in end game, but not with a level 22 Seer. They laughed me off so I waited until they had pulled the first boss to /ignore and leave.

The weakest link: I love to teach and help others so I won't initiate a vote. If they're a reasonable person and we really can't finish with them, they'll usually leave anyway. I'll always try to help first as long as they're willing to try.

I actually questioned him in chat about the shield issue, because I was curious "Hey, how come you're wearing a shield as a DPS shadow?"

 

His answer: "It's best in slot for me. Helps my dps, and boost my ability to survive. How do you know what's best for my class?"

Personally, I don't quite understand what's so bad about using a Shield ?

It mitigates the damage the DD receives, thus makes the Healing Job easier ...

If I didn't get a response at all I started a vote kick.

You don't know what Sociophobia is ? Right ...

What actually disturbs me more and more, is this self-righeous behaviour that appears to be common more and more within certain circles (usually among Veterans ).

I see more and more people trying to ENFORCE Trinity-tactics

a) without ANY creativity AT ALL - just "by the book"

b) forcing EVERYONE to stick to Trinity as well

c) enforcing Trinity even for level 8 characters (on starter planet H2s & H4s, and yes, I've read about this, it actually exists !)

d) forcing ANYONE of ALL SWTOR players to use Trinity - perhaps even in solo misions !

If this was enforcing a rule that was against "freedom of speech", then people would become upset.

But this is now "only" something against

- creativity

- freedom of tactics

- freedom of play (general play, in the *whole* SWTOr game !).

When I read threads like this one, I get the impression as if there was forming a sort of an "Trinity Police" (similar to the "Grammar Nazi") consisting of people who want to kick everyone whi is not behaving according to their rules.

And this is something that disturbs me quite a lot.

I kicked a dps once who insisted we kill everything.

I would get it, if he was well geared crazy dps guy, but I think my tank had better dps then him.

Well, insisted is a wrong word, he pulled, so we have to attack so we won't die.

We asked him to stop, we let him die and then kill trash our selves.

after 3/4 of a run I got fed up and insisted a vote kick. no objections. fell bad for him a bit, but if you can't co-op...

other then that, I rarely pull 'the trigger', dealth with non-healing spec and stance on L50 hm, (I wasn't the tank, so I didn't care as we did clear it), dealt with tank having L42 dps greens (my healer was on the spot while 2 dps were vastly over geared- plus, I give him credit for trying hard - he wasn't aware of rakata grade gear for planetary comms and apologised), dealth with tank on LI HM not moving from any aoe (not to mention incinerate) on my healer. (lorric was a pain with this tank, but I'm one of those people who know about 'cleanse' button)..

on the contrary, a healer tried to kick me once, I had 31k hp on Hammer station, and he was crying on ops chat that I'm squishy 'lol you are undegeared, who has just 31k hp, tank should have 40k'. Told him, 'sorry, my gear is made for tank stats, not max endurance'. wiped on droid boss twice as he did not cleanse me, and started raging that he never had to do it, that he healed TFB HM, hardcore raider etc. his replacment came and whole run was smooth from there.

other day I entered FP50 with my strongly over geared dps, and got kicked on the spot after a tell 'sorry, my friend qued as tank so we get faster que an we need to kick you to get tank as replacment' - don't know how that worked for them, but really ruined my day.. another 34 minutes in a que that night...

Personally, I don't quite understand what's so bad about using a Shield ?

It mitigates the damage the DD receives, thus makes the Healing Job easier ...

With a shield, assuming it has DPS mods, you'll gain the ability to shield 5% of the undefended hits for absorbing 20% of the damage, meaning 1% damage mitigation (on those able to be shielded)

The trade-off is the the loss of attached techno or force power, counting for maybe 1% of your overall DPS.

It's not significant in most case, but it's not necessary; DPS aren't supposed to take damages but to cause them.

I see more and more people trying to ENFORCE Trinity-tactics

i usually solo and if i go HM as a support class - i see this as a mean to train my group skills for raids

and so i do want to do it by book

and when such "free-minded" and "creative" go wild - it disturbs me and irritates

even if you are overgeared or very selfconfident - there are other people who need work on their skills

and when people ignore trinity through all the game - we get a bunch of irrogant wierds in GF who knows nothing about mechanics, tactics, their class and role in group

just because they do not see the opportunity to learn and train it all earlier

the game is made so that the most effiency can be get with trinity-tactics

you can do it in other way if you are overgeared - sometimes healer can tank or dps or tank can heal out themselfes

but that will not be the proper and efficient way

Personally, I don't quite understand what's so bad about using a Shield ?

 

It mitigates the damage the DD receives, thus makes the Healing Job easier ...

To not quote all of this text, and I speak as dedicated healer: what helps me most are people who kill stuff. Fast. The faster, the better.

Actually I would not kick a DD with a shield equiped, but I know from experience, that this buddy will not perform. He or she, despite shield, is no tank and a subpar damage dealer. Thus, will not make my day.