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RIP craft / economy


Voveca

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Well since noone revealed it yet I might as well do it.

 

Cartel Slot Machine ruined all the material hunting bussiness. You can get like 10 Jawa Junk per 50k in like 10 minutes ...

 

That pretty much destroyed whole gathering/crafting economy. I personally lost like 10 millions invested in TH missions unlock, crafting mats for artificier etc ...

 

Just short comparison ... while getting 50 Jawa Junk (cost about 250k) I ve been running nonstop 6 comps on TH (not unlockables) missions, got NOT a single Midlithe from gathering missions.

 

THIS SERIOUSLY NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED ASAP!!!

It COMPLETELY removed the need for having gathering crew skills.

 

Price went from 50k per piece yesterday to 18k today ... and is dropping still. Takes around maybe an hour to hour and half to make aforementioned 50 Jawa Junk which is equivalent of 5 characters from top 10 competing guilds on server winning reward in Conquest ... which is really hard work and lots and lots of hours not to mention if one character was doing it it would take 5 weeks, and of course only if his guild wins and he contributes enough point to get guild reward ... but now ... lets just play slots for an hour instead of 5 week grind ... I think thats slap into face of people doing conquest, people doing crew missions and of course all the crafters, who paid dearly for resources and now their products are selling for less than half of the initial materials purchases.

 

Possible quick fixes - change drop rate from slot machine, increase price of cartel coin, do strong diminishing return for slot player ...

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Lower prices coupled with lower overall credits in the economy does not equal a ruined one.

Margins are going to fall, but the credits going out of the economy is going to lower the inflation and make it healthier.

 

Pretty much this. It's not adding credits to the economy, just redistributing them thanks to greater supply. It amazes me how many people complain about a ruined economy without understanding what's actually going on.

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You don't get the point ... crew skills are killed, you can't compete with gathering missions with this crappy slot mashine ... what 6 man crew skill gather weeks you get in hours just clicking the mashine ... thats not really comparable ...

 

Not to mention that lvl 1 char could get artifact mats grade 11 just like that ... that coupled with some other game features opens WIDE gate for abuse and bot exploiting of market ...

 

Anyways why training TH or UT when u just need to click to get anything for almost free ...

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Since last night I managed to get rid of some high grade mats for acceptable loss (10% loss) and since then I stopped running crew skills and selling mats on GTN, also stopped crafting anything for sale but rather craft only for myself.

 

right now market of mats crafting has crashed beyond measure and even if Bioware remove slot machine it will be weeks before stocks are back to normal.

 

I talked with people last night which invested millions on slot machines and got hoards of jawa junk ready for use.

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Last time I checked you can only used the jawa junk for the basic 186 gear. You can't use them to craft endgame gear. Which btw the 186 gear is already a plethora because of how easy it is to make them. The slit machines will not change that.

 

Also you can easily get more jawa junk for crafting materials just from buying hypercrates at the same pace (if not faster) than the slot machines. And that's been around since jaww junk was introduce with strongholds.

 

Its not that serious and it doesn't need to be fixed

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Last time I checked you can only used the jawa junk for the basic 186 gear. You can't use them to craft endgame gear. Which btw the 186 gear is already a plethora because of how easy it is to make them. The slit machines will not change that.

 

Also you can easily get more jawa junk for crafting materials just from buying hypercrates at the same pace (if not faster) than the slot machines. And that's been around since jaww junk was introduce with strongholds.

 

Its not that serious and it doesn't need to be fixed

 

You can't compare "buying hypercrates" to clicking a button. Hypercrates cost you hundreds of dollars, or millions upon millions of ingame credits. The slot machine is 500 credits per token, is A LOT faster and way more profitable. The drop percentages are ridiculous.

 

Do some reading.

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Mje. This slot machine in addition to the Jawas selling 11 materials is going to be the death of crafting skills.

/Signed

Prices have dropped to half on materials and keep dropping, crafted items have already dropped at least 30% and they also are gonna drop even more and the prices had already balanced after 3.0. I stopped running crew skills, I stopped crafting, I am extremelly frustrated and discouraged. Ppl had already turned to buying CC staff to sell and make ingame money, maybe that is all they are aiming for in the end. BW killed crafting all over again. This is pointless... They should at least be honest about it and totaly remove crafting from the game. Let ppl buy gear and vanity items with CC coins aka real money... Its hypocritical to say the least to pretend this is anything more than that...

Edited by Wriwnas
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Last time I checked you can only used the jawa junk for the basic 186 gear. You can't use them to craft endgame gear. Which btw the 186 gear is already a plethora because of how easy it is to make them. The slit machines will not change that.

 

Also you can easily get more jawa junk for crafting materials just from buying hypercrates at the same pace (if not faster) than the slot machines. And that's been around since jaww junk was introduce with strongholds.

 

Its not that serious and it doesn't need to be fixed

 

Wrong,

you need 11 grade mats for top crafting schems including the ones you RE from ops.

also for augment kits and parts.

 

more then that many dyes and other unique items.

 

Fact is only way to get Jawa junk was conquest (time consuming or crafting which diluted your mats hoard in the process hence balance) or cartel packs (RNG , time consuming as you need in game or RL money in first place).

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Why healthy economics need to be associated with a huge price tag on the items?

Lets build socialism instead!

 

Define "huge" prices mate. The prices were already very affordable by anyone with a small margin for profit for crafters. Augments for example had already dropped to 80-85k and were expected to stabilize around there. From those amounts, crafters already make very little money and now that they dropped even more, its just pointless, plain and simple.

I would suggest to you to put your own credits, ingame time and effort where your mouth is and offer free crafted items to all. Cause that is what is happening atm. Crafters are only loosing money, so dont expect any to keep crafting. They killed the market. Again.

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This is a major blow to high end gathering, nevermind the freshly ability of 10th level bot-farmers idly sitting in a barren stronghold (save a set of slot machines) gathering up mats to sell on the open market.

 

Although I am not a high end mass-crafter ( and never made much money out of it ) this truly sucks and takes any difficulty out of mission based gathering, Which means, even fewer people will invest in crafting, making things even more difficult with the next expansion (if that ever comes around).

 

Also - by now it is freaking easy to gather credits inside the game to buy crafted stuff - unless one is exceptionally lazy.

Edited by achwas
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Why healthy economics need to be associated with a huge price tag on the items?

Lets build socialism instead!

 

usual self entitled person.

 

Have you crafted anything in the game?

have you spent time and in game money to learn advanced schems to craft anything?

why someone which did those things need to hand free items because you are lazy?

 

Slot machine created a situation where mats lost their value and in such ruined crew skills related activities in the game.

 

Imagine they will make a slot machine which grants instead of jawa junk pve titles like ones you get on NiM runs randomly.... same thing.

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Slot machine created a situation where mats lost their value and in such ruined crew skills related activities in the game.

Imagine they will make a slot machine which grants instead of jawa junk pve titles like ones you get on NiM runs randomly.... same thing.

 

Nailed it! :D

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/Signed

Prices have dropped to half on materials and keep dropping, crafted items have already dropped at least 30% and they also are gonna drop even more and the prices had already balanced after 3.0. I stopped running crew skills, I stopped crafting, I am extremelly frustrated and discouraged. Ppl had already turned to buying CC staff to sell and make ingame money, maybe that is all they are aiming for in the end. BW killed crafting all over again. This is pointless... They should at least be honest about it and totaly remove crafting from the game. Let ppl buy gear and vanity items with CC coins aka real money... Its hypocritical to say the least to pretend this is anything more than that...

 

If you want elements of real life in a multiplayer game which is what an mmo does then hello, petroleum prices have been dropping for months. And since there's no petroleum or gas in swtor, have a taste of a similar something. :rak_01:

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If you want elements of real life in a multiplayer game which is what an mmo does then hello, petroleum prices have been dropping for months. And since there's no petroleum or gas in swtor, have a taste of a similar something. :rak_01:

you mean "dropping the bottom out of the market by underselling from competitors" ? Like OPEC does at current ? Oh boy we had that since the very first days of Swtor

Edited by achwas
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. . . you can easily get more jawa junk for crafting materials just from buying hypercrates at the same pace (if not faster) than the slot machines.

 

There are generally only 3 jawa junk per hypercrate and at most 6 whereas I got 34 jawa junk in 40 minutes from the slot machine and given hypercrate costs it would be insane to buy them to get 3-6 junk.

 

Purple mats are used in all tiers of crafting, not just 186 gear. The issue the OP raises affects crafters and gatherers as being able to click up ops gear might affect you as it requires time to learn and run the ops and it spits on your effort and time when an untrained lvl 10 gets many fold times the rewards you worked for just for clicking. It takes considerable time and expense to lvl mission skills and the junk I got in 40 minutes would prob require 40 or more missioning hours to collect after training. It is serious for those of us who craft and does need to be fixed.

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If you want elements of real life in a multiplayer game which is what an mmo does then hello, petroleum prices have been dropping for months. And since there's no petroleum or gas in swtor, have a taste of a similar something. :rak_01:

 

So OPECs problem is being able to create 'oil' out of thin air in less time, with no effort and having the chance to get a gold bar while they are at it? Seems legit, can I get a oil machine like that?

 

Look here is the problem:

- Average crew Skill mission cost: 2500 to 5000 (assume an average of 2 purple mats, that are NOT guaranteed to drop) put into perspective that you can put 6 crew skills for collection, only 2 to 4 missions have a chance to get purple mats (for most skills like Slicing, underworld trading, etc etc) this assumes that you do not use

- 500 credits for 1 token, so you can get between 5 to 10 tokens to win more than 2 purple mats (or items worth more than that, so realistically either the purple junk, few blue / purple rep token or cartel market certificates (Altough I suppose if you look hard enough you can find a random green or blue mat that you might be able to sell for more than what a token cost, which makes it easier to make this even more profitable)

 

- Average Crew skill mission time: 25 minutes to 50 (assume an average of 40)

- Average time to win a pize: 5 to 10 seconds?

 

- Availability: it took me a while to get my Investigation, underworld trading etc, up to 500 (granted going from 450 to 500 doesn't make the gap seem too long but for new characters yeah this takes a while) Not every joe schmoe even bothers to train a crafting skill let alone a non collection based crew skill (by that I mean the usual Scavenger or bioanalysis guy who only really just extracts from dead corpses / droids)

- Every joe schmoe can play the slot machines earning your 500 credit investment back doesn't seem hard.

 

Hey on the plus side as my guilds biggest crafter I can finally get people in BIS 186 Gear, Relics, Augments etc (im not cool enough to have 192 recipes D:

 

On the downside making money as a crafter (especially one who used to get his own mats) is not exactly an ideal situation, while crafting prices might not have dropped as much as the purp prices (obviously, not everyone is a crafter and has the recipes broken) they will over time, making profit margins and GTN competition harder and harder, especially when you have people undercutting with dumb enough margins to where 1 idiot can screw up the whole market.

 

As for the whole "CARTEL PACKS GIVE YOU MORE JAWA JUNK" argument, I say, yeah they would, if I had an unlimited money supply IRL, I dont think the majority of the people in this thread are going to invest the real life money to buy crates JUST FOR the jawa junk. Its extremely inefficient way of doing it when you consider that you could turn your Cartel coins into money by selling unlocks, equipments, crates or even equipment from crates.

Edited by Faardor
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you mean "dropping the bottom out of the market by underselling from competitors" ? Like OPEC does at current ? Oh boy we had that since the very first days of Swtor

 

Apparently, not enough of it ;) However, I tend to agree with another author who made a very valid supposition (which we'll never obviously have confirmed officially) that these slot machines have their purpose to make people focus on mainly buying and selling uncraftable cartel stuff.

Any player can always use crafting skills for augmenting their gear, that hasn't gone anywhere. "Financial" interests of a very small group of top schematics owners, who are already rich enough, can be somewhat not taken into consideration. Apart from that crew skills have never ever been of much use, everybody knows that. So what, maybe it's time already to "let them go"? If 3.0 means so many changes, this might be one of them.

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Lower prices coupled with lower overall credits in the economy does not equal a ruined one.

Margins are going to fall, but the credits going out of the economy is going to lower the inflation and make it healthier.

 

Credits are not going out of the ecomony, they are going into the pockets of the slot machine owners, eg

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=790263 and elsewhere posts stating earnings of 1.6 mill per hour while those who invested time and credits into developing mission skills can produce perhaps 1 purple mat to the slot clickers 40-60 (or more as I clicked up 34 in less time than running 1 mission with a 1 in 5 chance of getting 3 purple mats).

 

Crafting margins are generally very low as is - many are the times I have offered to craft eg augments for free for the mats and when ppl look at mat prices they see I am selling below that, and as are most crafters. Most of us "sell" the mats we produce at lower than market value when we craft them and hope for crits.

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Ok did another test:

 

200 x Contraband Cartel Chip

 

gave me

 

25x Scraps: Scavenged Scraps

27x Scraps: Assorted Droid Parts

29x Scraps: Jawa Junk

+

27x Banned Holovids

18x Prohibited Medical Supplies

12x Confiskated Artwork

2x Cartel Market Certificate

 

Considering some hits just return the chip ... and one use is roughly 6 sec ... it could took like 30 minutes ... thats half of a mission time, which has to actually crit, to give you 3 measly purples (only if its bountiful+). Suppose the crit chance is let's say 10% (really no idea here) and u go 6 chars at a time ... it would take crew skill missions approximately so you have about 47% chance that during one hour you hit 3 purple mats ... so lets say average 1 and half purple mat / hour ... costing you about 30k (20k per piece)

 

versus the slot mashine

 

where you get around 60 mats / hour ... costing you exactly 100k (1,6k per piece)

 

So using slot mashine is 40 times faster way to obtain the mats and it's 12.5 times cheaper (also u re getting universal ones and of course not crew skill dependent, also no need to train or develop anything...)

 

Seems hardly fair to me ...

 

Can we perhaps get an official statement about the matter if its intended or what?!

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Crafting margins are generally very low as is - many are the times I have offered to craft eg augments for free for the mats and when ppl look at mat prices they see I am selling below that, and as are most crafters. Most of us "sell" the mats we produce at lower than market value when we craft them and hope for crits.

Most crafters I know really live "off" the crits their crafters git, selling off the extras as "the margin".

 

And High end equip will remain in the hand of the Crafters since right now (and there likely never will be) a way to get mass tranmogrificators (?) or mass manipulators (or exonium etc. ) except by raiding/flashpointing. But few people will actually have the money too finance the crafting/reverse engineering off relics from temple etc.

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Lower prices coupled with lower overall credits in the economy does not equal a ruined one.

Margins are going to fall, but the credits going out of the economy is going to lower the inflation and make it healthier.

I agree :)

 

In addition I'd just like to point out that from my experience, profit margins (not listing prices) have always been much much higher on blue grade crafted pieces. I regularly get in the range of 60%-80% margin on this stuff. Volume is what makes big cred balances, not individual highly priced purple items.

 

If anything, when the economy rebalances, I think the effect of easier to obtain rare mats will 'democratise' the market somewhat. No longer will people with multiple gathering alts doing the 'relog dance' have such a monopoly on creds. Instead, those who can adapt and switch around thier markets will continue to make good creds, and the overall benefits of lower prices will be to spread sales more widely among the general player base.

 

When the dust settles, I suspect that there will be fewer 'utra rich' players, but more 'comfortably off' ones, a higher number of 'middle income' ones, and a smaller number of 'utterly skint' ones! :D

 

Overall, this slot machine along with the Jawa Junk vendors, may very well be a very good thing for the vast majority of players. The only casualties will be those at the very top of the mats/crafting income bracket, who will now have to be a bit faster and more flexible to continue making the kind of creds they've become accustomed to.

 

Thanks for reading

:)

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