The Jedi aren't above bending or breaking the law to get what needs done, done. Qui-Gon wasn't even above using the Jedi Mind trick to get his way. He used it on the Gungans, tried on Waddo, and one or two other times in Ep1 before he ate a lightsaber.

 

Jedi tend to do what is best in their judgement and often times things like a corrupt law or politician are just something to go around or over, not to let them get in the way.

Actually, the quest he is talking about had some weird mix up on the light/dark choices.

 

The light side choice is to take a fake pile of documents back to her and essentially "lie" to her.

 

The dark side choice is to expose the Senator.

 

Seems completely backwards to me - though I wish I had just refused to steal the documents after all. I was "fine" with "stealing" the documents to expose corruption. Subterfuge and information gathering typically involve "theft" at some point anyway, but to intentionally deceive through false information does not seem to be a "light side" perspective.

 

Within the context of the game, you speak with two NPCs and you are forced to make a

choice on which one of them you actually believe. Weirdly the symbols for lightside and

darkside already tell you what you should pick, if you're playing one of these sides.

 

I too wanted to expose the corrupt Senator but followed the game's choice for LS (there

is some buggy behaviour with Corso affection which gives -30 but in the quest summary

it is revealed to be +30).

 

As an old school D&D player I felt I was railroaded into a Lawful Good choice where

I clearly wanted to be Neutral Good or Chaotic Good.

 

The way to "fix" this quest would be to write in speaking to a third NPC who gives you

more information on which one of the first two NPCs was trustworthy. Alternatively, having

a few quests in the game where there would be LS and DS choices but without those guiding

symbols might make for interesting variation.

 

 

Emshwiller on Red Eclipse

Edited January 2, 2012 by Emshwiller

Later on in the game, you recieve a mail from that man. He tells you how he has moved on and how grateful he is to you. Maybe most men would just get their heart permanently broken, but this man didn't.

 

 

Aka, people are different

 

I guess he found another lady to obsess over. ^^

.. Alternatively, having a few quests in the game where there would be LS and DS choices but without those guiding symbols might make for interesting variation....

 

Just turn "show LS/DS" off in the pref-menu, and you can just go on a guessing spree from 1 to 50.

Just recalled another quest which I couldn't quite follow the logic...

 

As a newbie Imperial Agent on Hutta, you are approached by starving

colonists to get some power units, or they will die. Sure, you say.

 

Then some other npc approaches you saying (basically) if you deliver

that power unit (...) my family will die.

 

Now you have two sob stories and if you choose for the starving

couple you get DS. If you lie to the starving couple and not give

them the power units, they will presumably starve... but you get

lightside points!

 

I'm beginning to notice a pattern within these quests. Whenever you

pick a conversation choice that makes you sound like a bad *** 80s

action hero, you get DS. It is not possible to walk through this game

with a Clint Eastwood attitude and scoop up LS points.

 

"Don't make me come back here." -- BOOM! 50 DS points.

 

 

Emshwiller on Red Eclipse

ps. Yamaqasi: thanks for the tip! Didn't know that.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Emshwiller

On a Side note:

 

Another point of "huh?"

 

is

 

**SPOILER**

 

 

 

On Taris (Consular Chain) you have the option of saving ONE person or the holocrons contain medical information that could be used to save MILLIONS.

 

The LS choice is to PUT THE INDIVIDUAL NEEDS OF ONE PERSON above the needs of many. Funny, even Yoda once said sacrifice is sometimes needed; just I just doomed potentially millions to agonizing death...for one person.

 

 

 

 

My brother justified it to me as "name a jedi that was able to look at an innocent dying and then do something else." I guess it also helps that those holocrons could possibly save millions with nothing concrete, and since we didn't know first hand what was in them, we can't be sure they would have cures for anything. The woman in the fire died, and that was definite. Either way, my character let her die to save more, and doesn't lose any sleep over it.

"The End Justifies the Means" - a very Machiavellian approach to things, and Machiavelli would be oh-so-Dark Side.

 

Also, about sacrifice being needed, that refers to the sacrifice of self, not the sacrifice of others. Choosing to sacrifice others for a "greater good" is back to Machiavelli. The means is just as important as the ends.

"The End Justifies the Means" - a very Machiavellian approach to things, and Machiavelli would be oh-so-Dark Side.

 

Also, about sacrifice being needed, that refers to the sacrifice of self, not the sacrifice of others. Choosing to sacrifice others for a "greater good" is back to Machiavelli. The means is just as important as the ends.

 

And Mace Windu used the dark side, even tho he was considered the most light sided jedi ever. Darth Caedus(Jacen Solo) turned to the darkside so he would have the power to pull the galaxy through to a lighter place, which would be a form of self sacrifice, yet he died a Darth.

 

Some people do believe that the ends justifies the means in a good way, and you have to remember that morality is subjective, and very rarely black and white. That particular philosophy is one of the most grey you can find.

I have a bad feeling my Consular is going to be walking the dark path...these choices are too morally ambiguous for me. D:

I have a bad feeling my Consular is going to be walking the dark path...these choices are too morally ambiguous for me. D:

 

Most of them aren't this ambiguous, there are just a few

I just completed the quest regarding the Senator, and I also have had an awkward feeling about it. Reading your comments, I come to the conclusion that the right choice is really NOT stealing the documents, but I ended up with the unconfortable feeling that through the choices in the dialogue I actually LIED to the questgiver. THAT is what really made me feel unconfortable.

 

The unconfortable feeling also comes from the -30 affection I gained from my companion Qyzen Fess (strange when choosing a LIGHT SIDE option, he being so honorable). As also stated by someone, we really don't know the questgiver from anything. If SHE herself was of the DarkSide, and tried to trick us? My companion Qyzen Fess knew the real truth?

 

My SUGGESTION TO FIX THIS MISSION would be to specify a dialogue option to the questgiver when you deliver the quest STATING THAT YOU STOLE AND GOT THE DOCUMENTS, BUT THAT YOU REALIZED THAT THAT ACTION BY ITSELF was not right for someone fighting for a "true republic". You'd also say that, nevertheless, you would keep an eye on the Senator. This conclusion would be very fair, as the questgiver itself might see their "mistake", and try more "democratic" solutions.

I think this solution would show a true Jedi way ...

 

Qyzen Fess' affection variation should come HERE at the end, giving +15 when you tell the questgiver the truth (you got the document, but thought it over). You'd honor yourself for admitting an almost brief "slip" to the DarkSide, which you corrected.

 

Otherwise, it's really a superb game for the moment. Congratulations! :-)

Actually, the quest he is talking about had some weird mix up on the light/dark choices.

 

The light side choice is to take a fake pile of documents back to her and essentially "lie" to her.

 

The dark side choice is to expose the Senator.

 

Seems completely backwards to me - though I wish I had just refused to steal the documents after all. I was "fine" with "stealing" the documents to expose corruption. Subterfuge and information gathering typically involve "theft" at some point anyway, but to intentionally deceive through false information does not seem to be a "light side" perspective.

 

Actually no.

 

The Lightside Choice is NOT to interfere with free speech, the senator is questionable but not evil, just radical in gis politics....and give the paranoid chick som harmless documents.

 

The Darkside one means to take democracy in its own hands, and mettle in politics.

Hello,

 

For my own part, wandering across some random chick and then robbing a Senator because she says it's a good idea doesn't seem very good to me.

 

It takes a bit more evidence than that to get a 'search warrant.' I imagine once the word gets out that you're willing to steal papers from Senators on the say-so of random strangers, you'll have a busy life of crime ahead of you.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Shaddaq

I have to agree, I don't have a moral alignment because I just can't bring my character do some of the light side or dark side choices.

Actually, the quest he is talking about had some weird mix up on the light/dark choices.

 

The light side choice is to take a fake pile of documents back to her and essentially "lie" to her.

 

The dark side choice is to expose the Senator.

 

Seems completely backwards to me - though I wish I had just refused to steal the documents after all. I was "fine" with "stealing" the documents to expose corruption. Subterfuge and information gathering typically involve "theft" at some point anyway, but to intentionally deceive through false information does not seem to be a "light side" perspective.

 

Agree the light/dark choices are backwards. So I refuse to steal (why exactly? I'm a Jedi not a police officer) and allow a potential threat to the entire Republic proceed unhindered or I steal the package and prevent it. I would think the will of the force (not the law) would be pretty clear given the context.

This may be chalked up to multiple writers with differing moral perspectives, or... possibly, we don't understand how Light and Dark are defined.

 

 

Take KOTOR. In both of them, it was very clear cut. Light Side, you saved people, their cat in the tree, the whole deal. Dark side you slaughtered them all and looted the bodies. Abject good and petty evil. Make no mistake, it -was- petty evil.

 

Now, take TOR. I don't think Light and Dark are being used here as definite "Good" or "Bad", though they both lean in the right ways to include those in their spectrum.

 

The Light Side is the side of empathy, caring, and concrete mercy. You can't see those millions that -could- be saved if you let this one person die, you see the one person in mortal danger. The Light is supposed to embody tranquility, calm and harmonious existence.

 

The Dark Side isn't necessarily evil, but it can be twisted that way. While it embodies passions, it is divorced from empathy. Putting it aside far enough for any act seems to be dark sided - Wether you are murdering people or letting half of them die so you can save more later. Certain passions gone too far, like the example in the OP. The woman was motivated by a national loyalty gone into zealotry, not to mention the self-serving part where you benefit.

 

Another matter is the character perspective. A sith flirting and a jedi flirting are two different things entirely because of their unique perspective and circumstances. The Jedi would need to be abandoning and breaking a great deal in order to act on that impulse. The Sith, not so much. Every action has an intent.

I disagree. The fact that there is a thread debating these choices and whether they are LS or DS proves to me that it is BRILLIANT story writing. It makes us think, it takes us out of our comfortable good/evil niches, and makes the choices stick with us after they are done.

 

The medicine quest on Ord Mantell is another good one for debate. Save the kids or save the soldiers?

 

I agree with the above. The fact that some of the light/dark choices aren't completely reduced down to a simple "good/evil" choice is wonderful. Some of the choices have really made me sit back and go "jeez, what do I actually do here...?" (The final light/dark in the Imperial Agent act-1 mission being the one that stands out the most to me)

 

I tend to create a personality for my characters, though, so it's easy to pick sometimes. My trooper, for instance, of course gave the medicine to the other troopers; they're the ones PROTECTING (at least ideally) the kids, after all. Whereas my smuggler was like "screw those jackbooted soldiers, of course I help the kids".

I wish there were more options for dark/light choices. The corruscant hidden tunnels quest comes to mind...helping the old lady is light...but maybe extorting her could be dark rather than just returning the disc which is neither (the medicine quest probably should be like this).

At the cost of the security of the entire Republic and trillions of lives.

 

Preventing deaths right now is a better light side option then allowing something that may or may not happen.

 

You have two choices, one is to save people who you know will die, vs allowing something to happen that may or may not result in other people being killed.

 

Letting that group of people be killed to stop the agent is a very good example of the ends justifying the means, which is not a light side concept.

Actually, the quest he is talking about had some weird mix up on the light/dark choices.

 

The light side choice is to take a fake pile of documents back to her and essentially "lie" to her.

 

The dark side choice is to expose the Senator.

 

Seems completely backwards to me - though I wish I had just refused to steal the documents after all. I was "fine" with "stealing" the documents to expose corruption. Subterfuge and information gathering typically involve "theft" at some point anyway, but to intentionally deceive through false information does not seem to be a "light side" perspective.

 

It's actually not backwards.

 

Remember, "light" does not mean "good", and "dark" does not mean "evil" in these decisions all the time.

 

The light side choice is to let the lawful, political process run its course. Letting the senator put forth his anti-Republic proposition, because this is what it means to live within a society that is based on laws. The law allows him to do this. If he gets shot down, fine, but lawfully he's entitled to present his case to the senate.

 

The dark side choice is to take that ability away from him. To subvert the entire senatorial process, and as the flunky says to you, turn your back on the laws the republic is based upon. You're imposing your own choice onto the entire governing body.

 

Rephrase the bill he's proposing, and you can see why it's set up the way it is.

 

"The senator is proposing a bill that will grant aid to <Planet>, and their people and ours have never gotten along. I want you to remove this bill, and make him not able to put the bill up to a vote!"

 

Light choice: Let the senator put forth the bill, even if it annoys a few people that he did.

Dark choice: Remove his ability to put forth the bill, to satisfy the people who don't want to see it.

 

Subversion of the democratic process is clearly the dark side choice in this matter.

 

(hee, just realized this was an old(ish) thread that got necro'd up)

Edited February 8, 2012 by LyriaFrost

On Taris (Consular Chain) you have the option of saving ONE person or the holocrons contain medical information that could be used to save MILLIONS.

 

The LS choice is to PUT THE INDIVIDUAL NEEDS OF ONE PERSON above the needs of many. Funny, even Yoda once said sacrifice is sometimes needed; just I just doomed potentially millions to agonizing death...for one person.

 

Key word there is could, you're gambling ones life on a chance.

 

 

And a bit more ontopic to OP,

The reason that is lightside is that the "true republic" people are the corrupted they want to take away a senators right to believe want he wants, and if he was elected which means a majority supported him it would be wrong to try and hard him.

Evil will always defeat good' date=' because good is [i']DUMB.[/i][/b]

 

Lol... so much win.

The light side choice is to take a fake pile of documents back to her and essentially "lie" to her. Light Side is to not try and ruin the politic for his views it is not illegal to support the empire however evil they may be.

 

The dark side choice is to expose the Senator.

Darkside is to take away the senators rights, he has a right to think freely as is republic law so trying to ruin him is darkside.

Sometimes.. doing the wrong thing for the right reasons is right, other times doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is wrong. Simple no?

This may be chalked up to multiple writers with differing moral perspectives, or... possibly, we don't understand how Light and Dark are defined.

 

 

Take KOTOR. In both of them, it was very clear cut. Light Side, you saved people, their cat in the tree, the whole deal. Dark side you slaughtered them all and looted the bodies. Abject good and petty evil. Make no mistake, it -was- petty evil.

 

Now, take TOR. I don't think Light and Dark are being used here as definite "Good" or "Bad", though they both lean in the right ways to include those in their spectrum.

 

The Light Side is the side of empathy, caring, and concrete mercy. You can't see those millions that -could- be saved if you let this one person die, you see the one person in mortal danger. The Light is supposed to embody tranquility, calm and harmonious existence.

 

The Dark Side isn't necessarily evil, but it can be twisted that way. While it embodies passions, it is divorced from empathy. Putting it aside far enough for any act seems to be dark sided - Wether you are murdering people or letting half of them die so you can save more later. Certain passions gone too far, like the example in the OP. The woman was motivated by a national loyalty gone into zealotry, not to mention the self-serving part where you benefit.

 

Another matter is the character perspective. A sith flirting and a jedi flirting are two different things entirely because of their unique perspective and circumstances. The Jedi would need to be abandoning and breaking a great deal in order to act on that impulse. The Sith, not so much. Every action has an intent.

 

doesn't matter. Answer how ya want. Grind fp if you have to take a few answers.

 

You story folks are nuts about the options being colored how you see good and evil.

 

If that was so clear the bible would be 800000000 commendments. We got 10. There is lot of grey in good and evil. So pick in the video game and shut up.

 

No one really cares. I actually find what I see as a lot of sexism more disturbing then the story.