The idea is good, but as I said, at leat change the name of it, since the REAL Most Powerful is Beni's series name. Also, I think it would be much cooler if we did one list at a time, and in the end, incorporated all of them to this index. It would give a lot more credibility then a bunch of separate threads runing along.

 

Well I guess i could change the thread name, but need a mod for that? And well I wanted to do two at once so it would be so focused in on one. Plus some people may not like snub fighters but love capital ships and vice versa.

 

Once we get one of those done, top 10 transports will be on the list.

I say we also do other lists aside from Sith/Jedi. Like...the most powerful Super Weapons, or the best Organizations(Fighting/Economic/Political) or best Star Fighters, or something of that nature.

definitely. Need more what people think are the best. Hell about to start one on my own.

If others which to make there own series, a different index thread would be best. As my series is strictly concerning Force users. I feel other categories go to deeply into the realm of opinion.

 

And I can't pretend I have much interest in them.

If others which to make there own series, a different index thread would be best. As my series is strictly concerning Force users. I feel other categories go to deeply into the realm of opinion.

 

And I can't pretend I have much interest in them.

 

Actually I think along with saber duelist some one mentioned something that I think we should do and that is Greatest Force using Pilots. Do you think that would fall under this category?

Actually I think along with saber duelist some one mentioned something that I think we should do and that is Greatest Force using Pilots. Do you think that would fall under this category?

Pilots is something of a biased category, as in reality it only really applies to the PT Jedi Order and perhaps the NJO Order. The Sith and any other Jedi Order's become redundant. The former because they did not favour it and the latter because of lack of information/established abilities.

 

I also don't want to do too many, else the integrity of it all becomes diluted. Already the forums are becoming a little 'clogged' shall we say.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Beniboybling

Pilots is something of a biased category, as in reality it only really applies to the PT Jedi Order and perhaps the NJO Order. The Sith and any other Jedi Order's become redundant. The former because they did not favour it and the latter because of lack of information/established abilities.

 

I also don't want to do too many, else the integrity of it all becomes diluted. Already the forums are becoming a little 'clogged' shall we say.

 

fair enough

Now that all lists are complete, we should resolve some ties that were left behind for the sake of the threads. I'll try to remember all of them, if I forget any, just remind us. (this list is not of claims I did, just to be clear)

 

The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

 

- Darth Caedus vs. Sith Emperor for #4.

- Jaina Solo vs. Darth Vader for #9.

- Should Mace Windu get a spot on the list? If yes, which place he should occupy? Why?

 

The REAL Most Powerful Jedi

 

- Jaina Solo vs. Mace Windu for #4

- Saba Sebatyne vs. Satele Shan for #9.

- Should Saba Sebatyne be removed from the list? If yes, who should replace her? Why?

 

The REAL Most Powerful Sith

 

- Darth Caedus vs. Sith Emperor for #2.

 

EDIT: forgot about one claim regarding the Jedi list: should Galen Marek be considered a Jedi?

Edited July 30, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

I think before we do that though, we should sort out the Sith thread on its actual thread. Then do this. But thanks for cataloging all the issues.

Now that all lists are complete, we should resolve some ties that were left behind for the sake of the threads. I'll try to remember all of them, if I forget any, just remind us. (this list is not of claims I did, just to be clear)

 

The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

 

- Darth Caedus vs. Sith Emperor for #4.

- Jaina Solo vs. Darth Vader for #9.

- Should Mace Windu get a spot on the list? If yes, which place he should occupy? Why?

 

The REAL Most Powerful Jedi

 

- Jaina Solo vs. Mace Windu for #4

- Saba Sebatyne vs. Satele Shan for #9.

- Should Saba Sebatyne be removed from the list? If yes, who should replace her? Why?

 

The REAL Most Powerful Sith

 

- Darth Caedus vs. Sith Emperor for #2.

 

to me so far the awnser is No to all. I think we have sufficient information to put all of them where they stood.

I think before we do that though, we should sort out the Sith thread on its actual thread. Then do this. But thanks for cataloging all the issues.

 

Fine, so let's head back there.

Fine, so let's head back there.

OK see you there *starts walking*

Beni! I say we have a list for the Top 10 Superweapons! Or well...however many we can get, because why not? Edited July 30, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Beni! I say we have a list for the Top 10 Superweapons! Or well...however many we can get, because why not?

 

The Omega Frost! Love that thing.

Well I am currently working on the Best capital ship and best star fighter. need to bring them back in and finish them, just had a lot of real life things crop up lately and haven't had a chance to stay ontop of it. Edited July 30, 2013 by TalonVII

Ok, first off I just want to say that the argument I'm about to provide is not in favor for Nihilus to be considered for the Most Powerful Sith list, but rather that if Nihilus cannot even be considered for that list, then Meetra Surik should not be on the Jedi list. (Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, I'm just surprised no one has given this argument and wanted to state it for myself).

 

Both Nihilus and Surik were wounds in the force, and that is where their power stemmed from. The reason Surik was able to become so powerful was because she was feeding off the death that she was causing during her journey (in KotoR 2) much like Nihilus. (This was stated by the Jedi council when she gathered them on Dantooine, and I think Kreia may have mentioned it, too). Her wound was also the reason that she could learn new abilities so quickly during her journey, like force sight, moving meditation, etc.

 

So sorry if this argument makes someone angry (Since beni said that Nihilus was out of the question) But I'm just curious as to why no one has mentioned this.

 

Edit: Ok, moment of ignorance, I should have read of this thread before saying this, I meant it was surprising not to see this argument in the Most Powerful Sith thread.

 

However my argument still stands. Surik gaining her powers was much like Nihilus since she fed off the death that she was causing.

 

And where is it saifd that Nihilus would lose all his power if the wound closed up? Beni, if you think Meetra would still have her powers if her wound closed up, then Nihilus likely would too. If he was able to become a wound in the force, he would have likely been force sensitive even before he became a wound

Edited July 31, 2013 by Darth_Omega

Nihilus and Meetra are quite different cases:

 

Nihilus is a wound in the Force, the man he once was has been utterly consumed by the wound to the point that he no longer exists, his entire body has been destroyed. And not only does this list not permit non-corporeal entities but Nihilus is effectively a natural phenomena, a wound with a bit of sentience. We cant even begin to gauge that.

 

Meetra was attached to a wound, but it didn't consume her. She merely used it to regain her connection to the Force - and perhaps increase her Force affinity. But that power became a part of her and if the wound had closed (which it probably did) she would have retained those powers. If Nihilus' wound had closed, he would have ceased to exist.

 

Simply put in the case of Nihilus the line between man and wound is far to blurred, and that makes his actual power impossible to judge, he's basically just a big black hole.

Nihilus and Meetra are quite different cases:

 

Nihilus is a wound in the Force, the man he once was has been utterly consumed by the wound to the point that he no longer exists, his entire body has been destroyed. And not only does this list not permit non-corporeal entities but Nihilus is effectively a natural phenomena, a wound with a bit of sentience. We cant even begin to gauge that.

 

Meetra was attached to a wound, but it didn't consume her. She merely used it to regain her connection to the Force - and perhaps increase her Force affinity. But that power became a part of her and if the wound had closed (which it probably did) she would have retained those powers. If Nihilus' wound had closed, he would have ceased to exist.

 

Simply put in the case of Nihilus the line between man and wound is far to blurred, and that makes his actual power impossible to judge, he's basically just a big black hole.

 

Meetra was still amped pretty heavily by her wound, whether she was consumed by it or not.

Meetra was still amped pretty heavily by her wound, whether she was consumed by it or not.

 

If she had been, she'd of been like Nihalus.

Meetra was still amped pretty heavily by her wound, whether she was consumed by it or not.

 

She created her own Wound...

It's like someone sacrificing a planet to gain power... It wasn't originally their power but they earned it fair and square...

If she had been, she'd of been like Nihalus.

 

Nihilus was consumed vy his wound because the wound took the form of the emptiness inside of him, which was caused by him loosing everything he loved in the Mando wars.

She created her own Wound...

It's like someone sacrificing a planet to gain power... It wasn't originally their power but they earned it fair and square...

 

She did it unwillingly, and through her wound she fed off others power (like Nihilus)

Meetra was still amped pretty heavily by her wound, whether she was consumed by it or not.

She used it to increase her Force affinity, Nihilus became it.

 

We should also remember that all Darth Nihilus' feats have been via Force drain. How do we compare this with others? We aren't comparing Nihilus here, we are comparing his wound. How can we stack up Force users with a wound in the Force? It would be like comparing Sidious with Malachor V. Meetra's abilities were achieved through her Force affinity, albeit indirectly through her wound. But she was still drawing on her Force power/energy. Nihilus didn't draw on the Force to exert his power, he just let his wound gobble everything up.

 

So you only have grounds for saying that Meetra's ability in Force drain should be discounted, because she was amped by her wound. But you can't deny that her wound made her strong in the Force whereas Nihilus' wound didn't make him strong in the Force, he was his wound.

 

I'm trying to make this distinction as clear as possible, so forgive me if none of this makes sense.

Now that all lists are complete, we should resolve some ties that were left behind for the sake of the threads. I'll try to remember all of them, if I forget any, just remind us. (this list is not of claims I did, just to be clear)

 

The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

 

- Darth Caedus vs. Sith Emperor for #4.

- Jaina Solo vs. Darth Vader for #9.

- Should Mace Windu get a spot on the list? If yes, which place he should occupy? Why?

 

The REAL Most Powerful Jedi

 

- Jaina Solo vs. Mace Windu for #4

- Saba Sebatyne vs. Satele Shan for #9.

- Should Saba Sebatyne be removed from the list? If yes, who should replace her? Why?

 

The REAL Most Powerful Sith

 

- Darth Caedus vs. Sith Emperor for #2.

 

EDIT: forgot about one claim regarding the Jedi list: should Galen Marek be considered a Jedi?

OK how about we do this item by item as best we can.

 

First item on the agenda, Jaina Solo vs Darth Vader. Currently we have Jaina Solo above Vader at #9 and Vader as #10. There is also the question of Mace Windu, who is one rung below Jaina on the Jedi list.

 

Personally I'm for keeping the status quo. Luke Skywalker before reaching his prime matched Vader's power, Vader threw everything he could at him and it wasn't enough to break him. Noting that Vader's attacks are heavily augmented by the Force and as the inferior lightsaber duelist the only possible way Luke could have held his own is such a manner is my being an equal Force user. And I feel quite confidently that Jaina in her prime surpassed Luke well before he reached his. I also don't think Mace should be above Vader, the latter's telekinetic feats are superior and really there are other contenders i.e. Krayt and Kun, for that spot.

She used it to increase her Force affinity, Nihilus became it.

 

We should also remember that all Darth Nihilus' feats have been via Force drain. How do we compare this with others? We aren't comparing Nihilus here, we are comparing his wound. How can we stack up Force users with a wound in the Force? It would be like comparing Sidious with Malachor V. Meetra's abilities were achieved through her Force affinity, albeit indirectly through her wound. But she was still drawing on her Force power/energy. Nihilus didn't draw on the Force to exert his power, he just let his wound gobble everything up.

 

So you only have grounds for saying that Meetra's ability in Force drain should be discounted, because she was amped by her wound. But you can't deny that her wound made her strong in the Force whereas Nihilus' wound didn't make him strong in the Force, he was his wound.

 

I'm trying to make this distinction as clear as possible, so forgive me if none of this makes sense.

 

I can see what you are saying. You are saying that Nihilus draws his power from his wound and not the force at all. I'm sorry sir but I must disagree here. (This argument is gonna be long...)

 

The only reason Nihilus and Surik's wounds were different was this:

 

Nihilus' wound took the form of the emptiness inside of him, the emptiness was caused by him losing his family, friends, and his will to live during the Mandalorian Wars. This caused to to lash out the force to absorb another person's essence to appease his "hunger" and his painful memories.

 

Nihilus was not "completely a wound in the force" as you say. Kreia simply states that his hunger has turned in into a being of pure intent, that intent being to satisfy his hunger. Here, it will be easier for me to explain what I want to say in story form:

 

Imagine that one day, an extreme hunger overcomes your body. So what do you do? Eat something of course. But wait, soon the hunger comes back even stronger than before! So you eat even more this time. Well this cycle continues on for awhile and you soon have to learn how to eat mass quantities at a time to appease your hunger, along the way you learn some new skills that have nothing to do with that hunger. This hunger eventually becomes your life, you will do anything to appease it, but you still have a shred of humanity left in you. (So in other words this hunger becomes your "pure intent").

 

Would Nihilus lose all his power should his wound close up?

 

At this point you have nearly lost all of who you were, but suddenly the hunger disappears for good. Do you die? No. It will take you some time to get your life back on track, but you become even better than before since you can now focus on the other skills you have learned instead of that terrible hunger.

 

Nihilus would not lose his own power that he has gained through the teachings of the Sith, only the power gained through his wound, Force Drain.

 

Even though Nihilus has become a "being of pure intent", he has still been shown to retain some of his humanity. He learned how to encase his spirit in his armor to avoid death. He trained Visas in the ways of the force. He could still speak, its just only a select few could understand him. Also, he has shown some affection to Visas (by getting angry when he discovered her betrayal) and was able to form a bond with her. He also created a holocron with his teachings in it.

 

We don't know whether or not Nihilus was force sensitive before the wound, but he most likely was considering he was able to become a wound.

 

Saying that he was consumed by his wound meant that he was driven by it to satisfy his hunger, in a metaphorical sense he "became his wound". Not that he actually became the wound.

 

Here is a list of his powers (Aside from force drain) in your preffered Control, Sense, Alter format:

 

Control: He encased his spirit in his armor to escape death, effectively being the only known person in the Star Wars universe to do this. He could also use Dark Healing. He also seemed to be able to hide his presence from the Jedi.

 

Sense: He could sense the exile from across the galaxy, knew how to hunt prey (from across the galaxy) and worlds strong in the force would draw him. He was able to show Visas a vision.

 

Alter: Lifted a fleet of ships from Malachor (albeit with the help of Malachor being a nexus, but is still impressive nonetheless) and held the Ravager together through the force. He used a dark version of Sever Force on Traya. His abilities also included Force Rage, force resistance, force scream, force lightning, force whirlwind, force choke, and he could bend people and beasts to his will.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Darth_Omega

Also, should Yoda be that high? I've read through all his force powers, and it seems that at least Darth Caedus should be above him (and possibly the Sith Emperor, but that's an argument I'm sure no one wants to hear, so I'll just leave that be). Yoda was impressive, but I'm hesitant to think he should be number 3.....

Also, should Yoda be that high? I've read through all his force powers, and it seems that at least Darth Caedus should be above him (and possibly the Sith Emperor, but that's an argument I'm sure no one wants to hear, so I'll just leave that be). Yoda was impressive, but I'm hesitant to think he should be number 3.....

 

I agree Cadeus should be above Yoda, as Cadeus had a combination of Skywalker potential as well as a vast knowledge base on the force that could have possibly rivaled Yoda's. Sidious vs yoda I have no opinion on.