Bought a hypercrate with real life currency.

 

Sold it for milions of credits.

 

Bought PVE end-game mods from GTM.

 

How is this NOT pay to win?

 

#howmadarewerightnow

Edited September 1, 2013 by Sammennn

Bought a hypercrate with real life currency.

 

Sold it for milions of credits.

 

Bought PVE end-game mods from GTM.

 

How is this NOT pay to win?

 

#howmadarewerightnow

 

Spent real-life money on top of your subscription

 

Sold the item for millions of credits

 

Bought second-best end-game mods that you could've got by simply raiding with your guild

 

How is that Pay to win?

 

#deadlogic

Bought a subscription

 

Did content allowed by subscription

 

Earned gear

 

OMG PAY2WIN

Spent real-life money on top of your subscription

 

Sold the item for millions of credits

 

Bought second-best end-game mods that you could've got by simply raiding with your guild

 

How is that Pay to win?

 

#deadlogic

 

Oh, it's second-best end game mods? Oh I could've gotten it in a RAID instead?

 

Thanks for proving it's definitely a pay to win feature ^_^.

 

#howdeadarewerightnow

This game does not suffer from P2W. One can create dozens of convoluted explanations as to why the description would fit and it still doesn't make it so.

 

The problem with claiming this game is P2W is that players are far more intelligent than they were 20 years ago, and can therefore make up their own minds instead of allowing someone to make it up for them.

 

Why not simply come clean and state that you do not like the market. That much is obvious. It is also obvious that it is the likely way of the future.

 

And that is that.

Oh, it's second-best end game mods? Oh I could've gotten it in a RAID instead?

 

Thanks for proving it's definitely a pay to win feature ^_^.

 

#howdeadarewerightnow

 

lol

Logic is not your friend today, is it?

You bought things that are not BiS by spending real life money. You didn't buy them from the Cartel Market. The items you bought were crafted by other players (not from the CM). You could've been making those items too and making credits in order to buy anything else you want to get your gear to BiS, instead of having to spend extra money.

The items you got were not more powerful than what you could've got from raiding - they were not even as good as you could've got from raiding.

But please, continue spending money on a "dead game" so that you can get things you could've got by playing the game (and even better ones, tbh) and trying to make it sound clever.

 

Also, hashtags don't prove a point. They're the Twitter generation's "I'm trying to make what I'm saying sound hip and witty, when it really isn't". Just FYI.

The cartel market isn't filled with pay to win items.

 

But through its cosmetic virtual effects and its ingame value, it can be sold within the game and that in game currency can be spent on improving your PVE gear with armorings/mods/enhancement that you could gain from Operations.

 

So again, it's possible to buy good end game gear from selling Cartel Market items. But it's indirectly. But still a way to "pay to win" since I used real life currency to indirectly buy end-game gear.

 

You can't deny that this is fact.

 

#howmadarewerightnow

Edited September 1, 2013 by Sammennn

You can't possibly understand my point if you've not passed lvl 27 yet.

 

So all the other people saying you're wrong also 'couldn't possibly understand'?

Riiight. I believe you. Really.

So all the other people saying you're wrong also 'couldn't possibly understand'?

Riiight. I believe you. Really.

 

Perhaps they have end-game characters in which case their opinions bear more weight. Even if they're wrong

You obviously haven't seen many F2P MMOs then, if you consider this the worst P2W you've ever seen.

 

You can't buy the best PVE gear (you can in Neverwinter) and you can't buy ANY PVP gear.

 

So what are you paying to win...varactyls?

Kids stop spamming this is not a P2W game . Play Lotro or neverwinter and then you see and btw i have lots of high level chars and if i need gear i need to play and farm and not spend moey to buy gear and all things are on gtn to buy with game creditss and not real money.

Heh,

 

It definitely is the worse P2W I have ever seen... because it's not a P2W game

 

So what if people spend RL money on hyper crates and sell them on the GTN. They have to wait for someone to come along with enough credits to buy it, and just spent more money on the cartel market than it would of cost them to go to a gold farmer for equal amount. Plus how much you can make from dailies alone anyway.

 

Ok. So let's say they bought their PvE gear with the credits from where ever they came via RL money. How is that effecting me since PvE doesn't really pit you against each other. Unless the NPC's cry nerf because you *** smashed them to bits with your GTN acquired gear.

 

Everyone in this game has the choice of being self sufficient, or spending millions.

 

"But I don't have much time to play because of RL" - and? it's not a race. Take your time.

 

If the story and grind sucked then I wouldn't wanna put up with grinding the mid tier of gear anyway, would I? There's no advantage that I can think of that the person would have over me other than getting there quicker. I'll enjoy it at my own pace, thank you.

 

Now if PvP items / armouring could be bought with credits, that would be a different story due to obvious reasons. But then again, the bolster would (at least in theory) cover that issue.

How mad are we right now?

I don't think the OP meant "Pay to Win" so much as he was talking about how easily people can just pay for the cooler looking gear/toys than say earning it in the game by achieving something though gameplay.

 

So really he just worded it wrong. I agree with him in that there is more to buy with real money than there is to earn in the game through quests, op loot and or pvp rewards. There should really be a balance. But hey GREED is the ultimate motivator and as long as the Devs can exploit this, things will not change.

I think the fact that you can sell items on the GTN is more to do with the fact that the CM deals mostly with the Gambling Packs. It is actually one of there redeeming features in my opinion, the fact that even if you get none of the things you were hoping for, you can sell what you did get and then buy what you wanted with in-game credits. It means nothing really goes to waste and whatever happens you can at least get something out of your purchase.

 

True P2W would, in my opinion, include something more like CM-exclusive endgame gear more powerful then anything you can earn, or selling instant level 55 characters. When the game forces you to buy items to proceed in endgame, or offers the chance to skip the major point of the game, then the CM would have gone something more like P2W.

 

How mad are we right now?

 

Not mad at all, actually feeling quite happy today!

I don't think the OP meant "Pay to Win" so much as he was talking about how easily people can just pay for the cooler looking gear/toys than say earning it in the game by achieving something though gameplay.

 

So really he just worded it wrong. I agree with him in that there is more to buy with real money than there is to earn in the game through quests, op loot and or pvp rewards. There should really be a balance. But hey GREED is the ultimate motivator and as long as the Devs can exploit this, things will not change.

 

I dont know, I get the feeling that BW are trying to show that is not necessarily the case, hence the addition of two new reputations offer gear in 2.3 and a new one being added in 2.4. Plus the fact that the Tauntaun mount is so-far available only via in-game purchase (With to different ways to get it in fact) and as a quest reward in 2.4.

 

As long as they keep adding items via in-game options as well, then I personally dont care how much cosmetic fluff they sell on the CM. It is helping to keep the game afloat anyway!

Edited September 1, 2013 by Cyberwoman

How mad are we right now?

 

I dunno, I think I could manage 'vexed' if I tried?

What an awful waste of a great game and some great content.

 

The billions of credits floating around needs sorting out.

 

The fact that there's so many things that can be bought for RL cash and then sold to easily build up enormous piles of credits which are then turned into game-difficulty defining gear is ridiculous. At the least packs and market items bought should have the binding time removed and be permanently bound to legacy to allow moving items to an appropriate toon of the buyer's. Things like helping f2p items should still be tradable but the rest allows pay2win to an insane degree.

 

I understand the company philosophy and "The game needs to be profitable" but seriously, how many mmo's have a significant life-span with this type of economy?

 

Pay 2 win eh?

 

May you never, ever go and play a bigpoint game.

What an awful waste of a great game and some great content.

 

The billions of credits floating around needs sorting out.

 

The fact that there's so many things that can be bought for RL cash and then sold to easily build up enormous piles of credits which are then turned into game-difficulty defining gear is ridiculous. At the least packs and market items bought should have the binding time removed and be permanently bound to legacy to allow moving items to an appropriate toon of the buyer's. Things like helping f2p items should still be tradable but the rest allows pay2win to an insane degree.

 

I understand the company philosophy and "The game needs to be profitable" but seriously, how many mmo's have a significant life-span with this type of economy?

 

You can buy cartel coins with real money, purchase items with those cartel coins and sell them for credits using the GTN.

 

With those credits, you can instantly purchase level 69/72 mods, armorings and enhancements, barrels, you can fully augment your gear, you can buy underworld implants, earpieces, relics....all without doing a single hard mode raid. And this 69/72 gear is required to do hard mode level 55 raids, and full 72 to do nightmare raids. With full 72 you can easily do all the PvE solo content.

 

Technically, some people are actually paying real money to buy gear, but then again, it's only PvE content. If it was PVP stuff that you could buy gear from and have an advantage over other players in PvP, then yeah that would be pay to win.

Then again, you could argue that if you have a new character and you want to gear it up, you may be excluded from a raid team because you are not geared enough, and someone who has bought all their gear off the GTN will take your spot, which would be annoying for you.

 

So actually, its more of a "Pay to Fastrack", because people have the ability to pay real money and earn millions of credits and be ahead of people in terms of PvE, all of these items can be aquired through playing the game.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Ayelinna

For PVP, things are even simpler: you can have 1 billion credits and it would still make no difference in PVP, because the only way to get PVP gear is by getting Warzone/Ranked Warzone commendations.

 

What about if you fully augment your PvP gear with the 1 billion credits you have? You'd have an advantage over other players because they may not be able to afford augmenting it.

 

Edited September 1, 2013 by Ayelinna

even if everyone accepted that this is p2w (rather than being debatable), if this is the worst you've seen, i think you'll find yourself sorely disappointed if you move on to other games.

The ability to buy mods for credits has always been there, and there have always been players with more credits than they'll ever need.

 

The CM does not allow you to do anything you cant do via regular game mechanics.

There are many ways to earn credits in the game, and you can pay cash to subscribe. Obviously saying that paying money to allow you to sell items on the GTN and get the mods you need is P2W is a very VERY severe stretch at best.

 

It's a pretty ludicrous way to try and shoehorn a regular in game activity into a P2W definition.

EVE Online says hi.

 

"But, but, they only sell PLEX and maybe a monocle here and there!"

 

Step 1: Buy 50 plex

Step 2: Sell 50 plex for 400-500mil each (last I checked)

Step 3: Search contract market for high end bling, and/or check the officially sanctioned and regulated characters for sale forum to buy a toon with skills you want (thus bypassing months or years of RL training time on your own toon)

Step 4: ???

Step 5: Profit

 

Though it is hilarious when a blinged out, P2W PVE ship gets ganked by a clever PVPer when said P2W PVEr is clueless as to EVE's PVP risk mechanics.

 

The good thing about EvE Online is that there is a drop/loot chance of items that the tanked player has equipped, making PvP a more thought out action!

What about if you fully augment your PvP gear with the 1 billion credits you have? You'd have an advantage over other players because they may not be able to afford augmenting it.

 

 

I can craft every augment and have more than ample materials. I also have roughly 38m credits which can buy me pretty much whatever I would want. I already have all the 31 mods I want or could pay for (if I wasn't already getting them through PVE). Exactly what advantage do they have over me? And what have they won?

Edited September 1, 2013 by MillionsKNives