The game is inundated with imperial and republic banners, low atmosphere probe droids and people throwing balls at each other. I even tried putting some banners on the GTN for 5 credits each and there were no takers.

Normally when I encounter an item like this, I sell it to an NPC vendor. Don't generally get much but its something.

Does anyone know when or if we will ever be able to sell universally unwanted items to vendors?

I don't think ever:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=403398

Cartel Market items - including the Heroes' Banner - display a Credit Value and the "Right-click to sell this item" message while at a Vendor. These items cannot be sold and should not display this information.

Probably a bad idea since it would allow people to artificially inflate prices by selling to vendors until items become very scarce.

I don't believe the devs ever intended selling Cartel items to be a lucrative means of getting hundreds of thousands or millions of credits but rather intended selling on the GTN as a way for people (primarily subs who don't want to spend more than what their sub costs) to buy Cartel items at reasonable prices without having to buy CC to get them.

Probably a bad idea since it would allow people to artificially inflate prices by selling to vendors until items become very scarce.

 

I don't believe the devs ever intended selling Cartel items to be a lucrative means of getting hundreds of thousands or millions of credits but rather intended selling on the GTN as a way for people (primarily subs who don't want to spend more than what their sub costs) to buy Cartel items at reasonable prices without having to buy CC to get them.

Yeah, I agree.

Cartel items being freely sellable on the GTN should not be inflationary. It should be neutral or deflationary in nature for the economy. If people could just sell them to vendors, it drives down availability and generates demand based inflation. Of course people could destroy them, but most won't go that far to limit supply. They will just stockpile them for a while until prices improve.

With the newness of the market for cartel items and so many people with free coins to spend... the market is deflationary for some things for the time being... but that will normalize in a month or two.

Yeah, I agree.

 

Cartel items being freely sellable on the GTN should not be inflationary. It should be neutral or deflationary in nature for the economy. If people could just sell them to vendors, it drives down availability and generates demand based inflation. Of course people could destroy them, but most won't go that far to limit supply. They will just stockpile them for a while until prices improve.

 

With the newness of the market for cartel items and so many people with free coins to spend... the market is deflationary for some things for the time being... but that will normalize in a month or two.

I understand what you're saying, but how is allowing people to vendor the cartel items any different from vendoring any other items? For example, the reason I vendor the green items I pick up from mobs is not because I want to drive down supply for them. I do it because I know they won't sell on the GTN, so I just vendor them to get some credits and clear space in my inventory.

I don't see people buying things specifically on the cartel market so that they can then vendor the item to increase the potential sale price of the same item on the GTN. I think the issue that most people run into is that the items coming in the Crime Lord and Cartel Packs are so available that no one wants them. And with selling them on the GTN being near impossible, all they do is take up space in inventories. The only option folks have is to destroy them. So, why not create the option to vendor them for at least a few measly credits. I don't think that would destroy the supply and artificially inflate prices. Especially given how readily available most of those things are in the Cartel Packs...

The answer is pure and simple.

Vendoring items inflates the economy (not prices on the GTN) - i.e. - new money is introduced into the economy.

Selling items on the GTN deflates the economy. - i.e. - some money changes hands from one player to the next + some money goes "poof" via transactions fees.

They do not want items "bought" with real $$$ cause an inflation in the economy. It's OK for players to complete missions or sell vendor trash from mob drops... but you don't want it to come from any other source.

As a work around, they could put a 1 credit price on all cartel items - for convenient purposes... but then, you've have the bone heads who vendored that 2MM credit item accidently and the QQ would flood the forums.

It's just a lose/lose situation.

The answer is pure and simple.

 

Vendoring items inflates the economy (not prices on the GTN) - i.e. - new money is introduced into the economy.

 

Selling items on the GTN deflates the economy. - i.e. - some money changes hands from one player to the next + some money goes "poof" via transactions fees.

 

They do not want items "bought" with real $$$ cause an inflation in the economy. It's OK for players to complete missions or sell vendor trash from mob drops... but you don't want it to come from any other source.

 

As a work around, they could put a 1 credit price on all cartel items - for convenient purposes... but then, you've have the bone heads who vendored that 2MM credit item accidently and the QQ would flood the forums.

 

It's just a lose/lose situation.

This makes no sense to me. What economy is being inflated if you're not talking about the prices on the GTN? Items bought from planet vendors? Skill costs? Commendation equipment? None of those "economies" are affected one way or another by in game or out of game credits. So the only actual "economy" the game has that can be affected is the GTN.

And selling items on the GTN deflates the economy? No. High Supply vs. Low Demand is what deflates the economy. Low Supply vs. High Demand would in turn inflate the economy of the GTN. Which is still money changing hands from one player to another.

Finally, just because it's on the GTN doesn't mean it is the result of in game credits changing hands. If I buy everything from the Cartel Store (with real money) and sell it on the GTN, I have received credits from a source other than missions or mob drops. And that money I get from the GTN? It can be put right back into the "economy" of the GTN. But it makes not difference if that money comes from me vendoring it or selling it on the GTN.

As for the QQs from accidentally vendoring something? That's why they have the buy back option. It would be a nonissue.

This makes no sense to me. What economy is being inflated if you're not talking about the prices on the GTN? Items bought from planet vendors? Skill costs? Commendation equipment? None of those "economies" are affected one way or another by in game or out of game credits. So the only actual "economy" the game has that can be affected is the GTN.

 

And selling items on the GTN deflates the economy? No. High Supply vs. Low Demand is what deflates the economy. Low Supply vs. High Demand would in turn inflate the economy of the GTN. Which is still money changing hands from one player to another.

 

Finally, just because it's on the GTN doesn't mean it is the result of in game credits changing hands. If I buy everything from the Cartel Store (with real money) and sell it on the GTN, I have received credits from a source other than missions or mob drops. And that money I get from the GTN? It can be put right back into the "economy" of the GTN. But it makes not difference if that money comes from me vendoring it or selling it on the GTN.

 

As for the QQs from accidentally vendoring something? That's why they have the buy back option. It would be a nonissue.

I am sorry that you do not understand my post.

The economy is driven by one thing, and one thing only. The "overall" amount of money people have to spend.

As people play the game by normal means... new money is pumped into the economy, thus inflating it. i.e. when you kill a mob and he drops money, those credits are created out of thin air. When you vendor a green drop, those credits are created out of thin air.

When you use services that consume credits, such as repairs, buying items (FROM VENDORS) or making a sell on the GTN (transaction fees)... those credits are removed from the economy, thus deflating it.

Money changing hands between players has ZERO affect on the economy. It just makes some players richer or poorer than others.

The "ONLY " thing that drives prices UP and DOWN on the GTN is the overall amount of money people have. If there was only one item in the game... but nobody had more than 1MM credits... the item is only worth, at most, 1MM credits.

Vendoring items pumps money into the economy. I'm an analyst, not a speech giver... So I don't know how to explain it other than that. Sorry.

This makes no sense to me. What economy is being inflated if you're not talking about the prices on the GTN?

And to clarify. Prices on the GTN are based on only 1 thing. Supply and demand.

This is a simple balance of (how much of an item is available) vs. (how much money do players have to spend AND are willing to spend on this particular item)

If there is an item that no body wants... vendoring 1,000,000 of them isn't going to make the prices any higher or lower on the GTN.

Look at the Pink crystals... when the first few of them appeared, they were selling for millions... Demand exceeds supply. This is called "ITEM inflation".

Now that 2,000,000 cartel packs have been opened (LOL), the market is flooded with them... so you can now get one for 50k, or less.

Supply exceeds demand... This is called "ITEM deflation".

This has nothing to do with the inflation/deflation of the economy.

This makes no sense to me. What economy is being inflated if you're not talking about the prices on the GTN? Items bought from planet vendors? Skill costs? Commendation equipment? None of those "economies" are affected one way or another by in game or out of game credits. So the only actual "economy" the game has that can be affected is the GTN.

Seriously?

This is not rocket science.

Every transaction via GTN actually draws 6% out of the economy while moving existing money from player to player. That = mildly deflationary.

Every transaction with a game vendor puts new credits into the economy. That = mildly inflationary.

When properly balanced... it's a zero sum game. In other words, inflation neutral. And it should be clear if you have followed Bioware commentary since launch that they do keep an eye on server economies and inflationary pressures.

The larger picture = the purpose of being able to trade/sell cartel items you purchase on the GTN is to introduce new items into the economy without introducing inflation. It gives people access to items without buying coins, it give people with coins acess to other players credits via coins, and it generates revenue for Bioware, ALL while avoiding introducing any inflationary pressure into the server economies.

Clearly they do not want the cartel market to inflate the server credit pools in the game. Personally, I think they have done a good job here.

The game is inundated with imperial and republic banners, low atmosphere probe droids and people throwing balls at each other. I even tried putting some banners on the GTN for 5 credits each and there were no takers.

 

Normally when I encounter an item like this, I sell it to an NPC vendor. Don't generally get much but its something.

 

Does anyone know when or if we will ever be able to sell universally unwanted items to vendors?

While I agree that the banners are a waste of server electrons, the probe droids are my favorite pet.

Anything that is so worthless to you that it's not worth storage space or will not sell.... /destroy the item.

I am sorry that you do not understand my post.

No, I understood your post. It just didn't make sense. So, I'll point out where your argument is flawed.

The economy is driven by one thing, and one thing only. The "overall" amount of money people have to spend.

This is just not an accurate statement. The amount of money people have to spend is called capital. That capital is used to buy goods and services. The changing hands of that money for those goods and services creates an economy. The supply of and demand for those goods and services determine the prices that people will pay for those things. THAT is what drives the economy. Supply and demand. Not capital. More capital just means that you can afford more expensive goods and services.

As people play the game by normal means... new money is pumped into the economy, thus inflating it. i.e. when you kill a mob and he drops money, those credits are created out of thin air. When you vendor a green drop, those credits are created out of thin air.

Again, pumping money into the economy does not inflate it. And how is this any different from people using Cartel Coins to purchase items that they then place on the GTN? Isn't that creating money out of thin air, too?

When you use services that consume credits, such as repairs, buying items (FROM VENDORS) or making a sell on the GTN (transaction fees)... those credits are removed from the economy, thus deflating it.

Just as vendoring items brings back money. The two are offset. And again, the static prices of vendors and repairs do not affect the "economy" of the game. Because supply and demand make no difference there. The vendors have an unlimited supply and a set price. The amount of money I have does not affect that in the slightest. The price is the same whether I have 1,000 credits or 10,000,000 credits. Which means that the only "economy" existing in the game is that of the GTN.

Money changing hands between players has ZERO affect on the economy. It just makes some players richer or poorer than others.

Money changing hands IS the economy. Without money changing hands there would be no economy. It allows crafters to determine a fair price (based on supply and demand) they are willing to pay for the materials they need to craft their items. And it allows gatherers to determine the value of the materials they are gathering for sale (or use). As I said above, without money changing hands between players, the only thing to buy would be from vendors. And those vendors have unlimited supply and static prices.

The "ONLY " thing that drives prices UP and DOWN on the GTN is the overall amount of money people have. If there was only one item in the game... but nobody had more than 1MM credits... the item is only worth, at most, 1MM credits.

This is also just way off base. Prices are driven up and down by supply and demand. Which is why initially, cartel items got much higher prices than they do now (demand far exceeded supply). As more of the items flooded the market, the prices went down (supply began to far exceed demand). This has nothing to do with the amount of money people had. It had to do with the supply vs. the demand. The amount of money I have affords me the opportunity to purchase the goods that I want.

As to your example, what makes the item worth 1MM credits isn't that nobody had more than 1MM credits, it's that there is only one of it. But if there were more of them, the price would likely be lower. Not because people have money, but because the supply is increased. And then, it only depends on whether there is demand for that item. If no one wants it, then it isn't worth anything, even if it is the only one of it's kind.

Vendoring items pumps money into the economy.

Which HELPS the economy. It provides more capital for materials to be used for crafting. Or for repairs when raiding. Or to give a friend to buy something that he can't afford on his own.

But the main point is that whether the items are vendored or sold on the GTN, cartel market items are allowing players to make money. The trick is to determine an appropriate vendor value for the cartel items.

The larger picture = the purpose of being able to trade/sell cartel items you purchase on the GTN is to introduce new items into the economy without introducing inflation. It gives people access to items without buying coins, it give people with coins acess to other players credits via coins, and it generates revenue for Bioware, ALL while avoiding introducing any inflationary pressure into the server economies.

 

Clearly they do not want the cartel market to inflate the server credit pools in the game. Personally, I think they have done a good job here.

You still have yet to explain to me why people making money (to then put back into the in-game economy) by selling cartel items on the GTN is any different from them making money by selling unwanted items to vendors. I, as a cartel market item purchaser, can still make in-game credits through selling those cartel market items. And by your rationale, that money I make from the GTN is inflationary, since that 6% fee does not offset the 94% of free credits I just got by selling the item through the GTN.

Vendoring unwanted cartel items accomplishes exactly what you're describing above.

You still have yet to explain to me why people making money (to then put back into the in-game economy) by selling cartel items on the GTN is any different from them making money by selling unwanted items to vendors. I, as a cartel market item purchaser, can still make in-game credits through selling those cartel market items. And by your rationale, that money I make from the GTN is inflationary, since that 6% fee does not offset the 94% of free credits I just got by selling the item through the GTN.

 

Vendoring unwanted cartel items accomplishes exactly what you're describing above.

I explained it to you already... but let's try one more time.

1) Vendoring puts credits in your hands from the server. The server creates the money for the vendor to dispense to you. Money that DID NOT EXIST in the game economy until you vendored the item. [Every credit that enters the economy from a vendor devalues the total supply of credits by a fractional amount, and is the major element in server economy inflation in MMOs].

2) Selling something on the GTN extracts 6% (the GTN commission) of the sales price OUT of the economy and the other 94% moves from your pocket to someone elses pocket. Net 6% loss of credits in the server credit supply for every transaction.

3) Cartel items are bought with cartel coins NOT credits. So they do not affect the player credit pool on the server at all. Players then sell them in the GTN, causing an exchange of existing credits in the economy between two players, minus 6% which is sucked back out of the available credit supply of the players.

Got it now? I can't make it more simple for you. Really.

I explained it to you already... but let's try one more time.

 

1) Vendoring puts credits in your hands from the server. The server creates the money for the vendor to dispense to you. Money that DID NOT EXIST in the game economy until you vendored the item. [Every credit that enters the economy from a vendor devalues the total supply of credits by a fractional amount, and is the major element in server economy inflation in MMOs].

 

2) Selling something on the GTN extracts 6% (the GTN commission) of the sales price OUT of the economy and the other 94% moves from your pocket to someone elses pocket. Net 6% loss of credits in the server credit supply for every transaction.

 

3) Cartel items are bought with cartel coins NOT credits. So they do not affect the player credit pool on the server at all. Players then sell them in the GTN, causing an exchange of existing credits in the economy between two players, minus 6% which is sucked back out of the available credit supply of the players.

 

Got it now? I can't make it more simple for you. Really.

Another way to think of this is introducing a foreign life form to an ecosystem that has no preditors to keep it in check. The influx of outside "cash" would gobble up the market. Also think of it as "printing money".

I explained it to you already... but let's try one more time.

 

1) Vendoring puts credits in your hands from the server. The server creates the money for the vendor to dispense to you. Money that DID NOT EXIST in the game economy until you vendored the item. [Every credit that enters the economy from a vendor devalues the total supply of credits by a fractional amount, and is the major element in server economy inflation in MMOs].

 

2) Selling something on the GTN extracts 6% (the GTN commission) of the sales price OUT of the economy and the other 94% moves from your pocket to someone elses pocket. Net 6% loss of credits in the server credit supply for every transaction.

 

3) Cartel items are bought with cartel coins NOT credits. So they do not affect the player credit pool on the server at all. Players then sell them in the GTN, causing an exchange of existing credits in the economy between two players, minus 6% which is sucked back out of the available credit supply of the players.

 

Got it now? I can't make it more simple for you. Really.

I just wanted to let you know that all three of your posts were well thought out explanations. I do not understand how a person can read them and not understand. Real economies are complex whereas the game economy is simple. Maybe this will help: Selling items to vendors in SWTOR is like giving goods to the government in return for newly minted money.

Yes I'm sure that vendoring off the most common items from the cartel packs at a massive profit of 1 K from the vendors will ruin the economy.... /endsarcasm.

Forrest for the trees ...

Over time there would be an influx of money into the market. This is like printing money without sufficient backing which devalues the cash and inflates the market. There are currently not enough credit sinks in the game to handle this influx of "magic money". Some knee jerk reactions from EAware to regulate this if they allowed it to happen in the first place would be increasing the costs of mod removals, increased repair costs, increase skill costs, etc. At some point "new players" would be priced out of the game that weren't participating in the printing of the in game cash via selling CC store trash. True Story.

Forrest for the trees ...

 

Over time there would be an influx of money into the market. This is like printing money without sufficient backing which devalues the cash and inflates the market. There are currently not enough credit sinks in the game to handle this influx of "magic money". Some knee jerk reactions from EAware to regulate this if they allowed it to happen in the first place would be increasing the costs of mod removals, increased repair costs, increase skill costs, etc. At some point "new players" would be priced out of the game that weren't participating in the printing of the in game cash via selling CC store trash. True Story.

Not enough credit sinks to offset a massive profit of like 5 K from 1 cartel pack, unless you get a crap speeder that says its worth 25 K? LMAO... do you even play this game?