Those 3 things you do stick with it's the rest that is garbage.
Matter of opinion... =P actually not sure why I bothered slicing this quote except maybe to add more =P's faces.
I can't ask you to play with premade groups right... but it's ok for you to tell me I have to play against premade/groups and in order to win more matches I have to make a group? That is basicly telling me how to play no matter how you try to spin it.
Most cases I use the "Can't ask others what you won't do yourself" is usually in reference to people telling premaders to find 4 more friends and do ranked, rather than fight PuG's in normal. My point comes to, the Premader (individual) has already found 3 people, and now people think it's okay to tell them "Find 4 more" rather than take the first (find 3 friend) step themselves.
As for you -have to play with premades- I think matchmaking doesn't say that at all. Ideally, (with enough population) a full Pug would rarely fight a premade. Yet, to insure everyone has reasonable queue times, I do not find it unreasonable for PuG's to be both matched with and against premades.
On a side note: A split queue would mean premades suffer from incomplete premades and no backfill, while PuG's would have this luxury.
That's right no one does care... wait they do care because most of the game is PUGers, and it's actually the 15-20% of players or the "elitists" that don't care because life is good for them so f everyone else right? Like I said before let BW poll the game not the forums that the "elites" prowl like ghosts in a haunted house and you will see how wrong you are. The ques slowing down, the server merges, the F2P are all reasons of this. PUGers do care how ****** it has gotten and are leaving the game. Who do you think will pay for this... not them they moved on to better things, it's you that will suffer.
On this one, I'm gonna again say we have no data on this. While I think we can agree (through logic) there are more "PuG's" than Premaders (not accounting for cross-over), does 15% to 20% sound right? Even 1 premade is 25% of the match (4/16). If double premades are the issue, that puts them at 50% of the match. =P now before you jump on the math there, I know it's inaccurate and not accounting for faction imbalance, people waiting in queue, etc...
However, before I get to off topic on "Incomplete data" and "drawing assumptions." I believe the above quote was a reference to point 3, which is self-reliance. Once people stop assuming people should -care- for their every grievance, they'll realize they should take steps for themselves (and I don't mean in the "**** everyone else" way.) Though... it was probaby a rude post.
So premade groups not having a premade que that wouldn't mess with their rankings and I dunno give them more comms for example would just be to extreme for practice that means PUGstomping is the practice ground?
It's a better practice ground than ranking. The point being that a more "casual" place is where you practice, not ranked. Still, matchmaking would relieve the toll of premade practice on PuG's, and give premades better practice.
As I said you preach fairness but now and then you let the "I am better then you beause I do premades" slip out..
Ya... I can get a little rude and hot under the collar, and I can be pretty pompus when fired up. =P Sorry.
I still don't see how your version of fairness is forcing PUGs to compete against premades but giving premades the option of playing each other or not.... because that's exactly what 2 ques would do either you PUG or you don't.
Matchmaking would be designed to balance teams, thus the hope would be PuG's would face Pugs (or if it's based on valor/something else, like would face like). I don't wish to "force" other people to get stomped by clearly better players, but in the interest of all, after a certian amount of time the "quality" of the balance provided must be reduced to keep queue times reasonable.
In essence, you have the intention of the split system (like faces like only) but with flexibility to insure the highet number of people are served within a reasonable amount of time.
tough to find everything with this many pages on here I am sure there are more.
I still don't see, (with the exception of a few rude/pompous remarks) any where I've "flip-flopped." Perhaps I'm missunderstanding, but a flip flop to me would be:
"We should have matchmaking"
2 lines later
"Screw ya'll! we should force every PuG player to face 4 premades by themselves! (1 vs. 16)"