Abeloth. Rayla_Felana already said what I would've said. Should also take into account that even before Luke reached the peak of his potential, Sidious could not defeat him in Dark Empire in the end. He lost to a singles duel wherein Luke cut off Sidious's hand and determined the victor. It was at that point Sidious kind've realized he wasn't going to win the war after having lost that battle, and his desperation became much more blatant in display. Abeloth, however, the second time she fought Luke.. almost annihilated him--pretty much toyed with him. The first time in which Luke defeated her she was weakened from her age old imprisonment (afaik thousands of years to be exact, around 6x the amount of Darth Vitiate from the SWTOR era). Her weakness as displayed so far is her primal wanton lust and rage (and other primal emotions at their rawest), causing her to sometimes underestimate other people. Remember, she's a Dark Side entity, she was -never- a mortal in flesh as we're led to believe so far. I think the only way you can actually kill Abeloth is to be the exact opposite of what she's not by nature; expose her to positive feelings or compassion (which a Jedi readily gives unconditionally) and she'll just.. disappear. Since, as shown so far, she only gets stronger the more you oppose her (that's what the Dark Side is, after all. Negative emotion fueling it the foremost). No doubt it's part of the plot now Why do you think that Sith preyed on her loneliness and depression? Sidious was trained and honed; but he lost to Luke, even having tamed his passion to fuel his power. Abeloth is -RAW- power, akin to a single scream breaking glass in fits of rage -- except she destroys entire cities with her residual presence when that happens. Siddy trained to get it. Abeloth was "born" with it, and is only getting more dangerously powerful.

Actually according to EU, Luke Skywalker is the epitome of Light side power - he became Anakin's potential realized. Abeloth is the epitome of Dark side power. Luke wiped the floor with Abeloth the first time they fought. The second time, Abeloth defeated Luke but could not kill him. What's more? Abeloth is not a Sith. She's a Dark sided entity (an immaterial being) who has difficulty fighting the strongest Jedi ever to exist. That should be telling you the measure of the Light sides potential, and just where the Dark Side really stands if an immaterial entity of the Dark Side struggles to defeat a mortal, light sided being like Luke Skywalker or even come close to killing him. There's a point where Abeloth tried to enter the mind of a powerful Sith during this time and consume/kill him. Unfortunately, this Sith was smart (-NOT- more powerful) and he used her own weakness against her (the result of her vampiric, dark sided nature). She was morbidly lonely in her existence. He preyed on that and forced her to retreat from his mind. The very nature of the Dark side is self destructive. Any true fan of SW who avidly reads its material would know that. There's several sources that cite the Dark Side often sending self-conscious force users into a depressed state of suicide (e.g Galen Marek, he HATED his life as the Dark Side fueled him). It cannot sustain itself; hence why from the very start Dark Siders are doomed to failure and destruction. The irony is that Dark siders seek to gain a measure of immortality (which the SW fan knows is a vain, futile endeavour because Dark Siders cannot attain immortality; the only way to do so is through endeavouring to train in the light) - unaware that their delving into the Dark side is what's preventing them from attaining true immortality (not states of agelessness like some people seem to think counts as pure invulnerability to death). Also, LordOfMassacre, you're aware that Jedi who have merged with the force while retaining their individual will can come back at any point in time they like, and interact with the physical world around them how they like without fear of expending their energy (like a dark spirit would)? Obi-Wan Kenobi took control of Luke's body when Darth Vader threatened his life. Luke consented to it and Obi-wan briefly fought off Vader using Luke's body as a conduit ~ defeating Vader. That's just one example. Obi-Wan, because he was merged with the force, was infinite in that measure of power - he WAS the force. No Sith can ever achieve that I love Sith. I love playing as Sith. Heck i've even roleplayed a Sith Lord on several occasions. But as much as I favor playing Sith in the end it wont change the facts about SW Lore and why i'd choose the Light side over Dark any day when push comes to shove. It's like asking a fanatic of the modern age "Heaven or Hell?" ~ the more logical consensus would be their favoring of Heaven, "ever-lasting salvation or eternal torment/ultimate destruction?"

Okay, i'm going to have to destroy your argument completely here, LordofMassacre, because your entire argument is based on fanboyism and bias on your own behalf. Here's the REAL deal - next time I suggest you learn more about the lore before you actually try to start an argument with an avid Star Wars fan of both the EU and movies: The DECEIVED Novel; which depicts Darth Malgus's eventual Sacking of Coruscant which is directed by Darth Angral. Malgus, unlike you claimed blindly, DID NOT SINGLEHANDEDLY DESTROY THE JEDI TEMPLE AND DOZENS OF JEDI BY HIMSELF. His strike team was co-led by him and his arch-rival, Darth Adraas, by orders of Darth Angral. All the more experienced Jedi Masters and Knights were not at the Temple during the time, they were off on duty or, like Satele, were taking part in the treaty negotiation with Darth Baras. Only a HANDFUL of experienced Jedi were kept at the Jedi Temple to guard it; the vast majority were inexperienced/lacked the adequate combat experience to battle a fully fledged strike-force. Malgus and Adraas's strike force consisted of a dozen Sith Warriors and Imperial Troopers - the Jedi defending the Temple had no chance because the majority of them were, quite literally, Padawans and Knights - the only combat-capable Jedi who could face Malgus during that duel in singles combat was Jedi Master Ven Zallow (who he DOES face). So no, your claim that Malgus was so exaggeratedly powerful is, to the whole iteration of DECEIVED, null and moot. Now, as for your claim that Malgus handled Satele Shan with relative ease - I beg to differ. Once more I suggest you read the lore again. In both scenarios, Malgus was older than her and with much more combat experience. In the "RETURN" Trailer, Satele Shan is only a Padawan and she held her own valuable well for sometime against a Sith who was nearing the peak of Lordship. Malgus DID NOT destroy Satele's master with ease. Satele's master, as a matter of fact, was exhausted having battled a SITH LORD and an APPRENTICE on his own; going as far as to defeat Darth Vindican (Malgus's master of the time) with a fatal stab to the gut. Malgus only won because he called upon his rage to defeat an already exhausted Jedi Master Kao Cen Darach. That's not really power, lmao. In the "HOPE" trailer, Satele Shan was only just a Jedi Knight. She was still younger, and less experienced, than Malgus - who was now a full-fledged Darth. Want me to quote an exact extract of what happened when she arrived to battle the near-victorious Sith Forces? That said, she turned the tide of the battle single-handedly. Dark Side more powerful? I beg to differ. That's not something Malgus has ever done, not in the DECEIVED Novel, or in the game. He's not capable of it. Satele Shan is now a fully prepared, well honed and experienced Grandmaster now. I have no doubt if she and Malgus were to do battle again, Malgus would lose quickly. Because at this point in the storyline, i'll quote Satele Shan, Dreadnaughts are the BIGGEST WARSHIPS the Empire has to muster. They're the most powerful ships their fleets have to offer and the fact Satele Shan did away with them in such a short span of time should be informing you of something She's much more powerful than Malgus in the current SWTOR setting. Now, onto your argument that only the Dark Side can achieve immortality or consume worlds etcetera;- Are you aware of why Sith generally consume worlds (when they have)? It's to bolster their own hunger, power, or to heal their ailing physical form (Darth Sidious par the EU). Do Jedi need that? No, not really.. they never have and never will. Sith whine and cry when they die and refuse to merge with the force - because, if you ever read ANY SW Novels or iterations, they're AFRAID of losing their power. Yes - they're cowards, the bluntest way of putting it. The Sith Emperor, Darth Vitiate, did not achieve true immortality. Immortality entails that you cannot be killed. The Emperor can be killed which is what the SPOILER!! Jedi Knight storyline reveals. He has only achieved the sub-par immortal state of agelessness via a ritual. Afaik, having read the REVAN Novel, the Emperor was afraid of Revan because he was capable of KILLING HIM. The Emperor only won his duel against Revan because Scourge betrayed him and Meetra, stabbing Meetra (the Jedi Exile) in the back - killing her - enabling Vitiate to utilize Lightning on Revan until he lost consciousness. Now, onto your argument that Luke could not defeat Darth Sidious - You're wrong. So terribly, terribly presumptious and wrong. Luke refused to fight because it's NOT THE JEDI WAY. He tossed away his Lightsaber to show the significance of the trait of a Jedi and to appeal to his defeated father. Sidious of course didn't like that, but ultimately it was his own undoing and he ended up being tossed by the generator shaft not by Darth Vader but by ANAKIN SKYWALKER, A JEDI KNIGHT. In the Dark Empire iteration, which is of the EU, Luke defeats Darth Sidious in singles combat. He achieves what Yoda didn't and outright.. how do I put it? OWNS SIDIOUS. Leia recounts that they were moving so fast that she couldn't even see a blur - only a few short specks.. but she could sense that the Light Side was winning over the Dark. Luke severed Sidious's hand and that concluded the duel - the Light side was more powerful. And NOW! Onto Count Dooku - Dooku had mastered the Lightsaber form of Makashi to its highest degree and knew several other forms indepth to account for Makashi's few shortcomings. Obi-wan was a practitioner of Soresu - a form which is considered vulnerable to the style of Makashi which utilized precision and elegant; perfect for prying open Soresu's defensive. Anakin was just a Padawan, but here... i'll tell you THIS From the EP2 Novel;- Dooku was shocked and amazed at Anakins skill when he fought him. He was almost overwhelmed by the inexperienced Padawan that Dooku actually was starting to WORRY. He was just a Padawan! And Obi-wan was just a Knight. Where did Dooku learn to master Makashi and 99% of all his abilities? OH yeah, the Jedi Order. Why did he win? Because he had 10x more experience and training than both Anakin and Obi-wan combined at that time. Dooku fled from Yoda because he knew he had NO CHANCE. This much is stated in the Attack of the Clones novel. He knew if he tried to continue to fight Yoda he would be defeated, captured, or killed. So, there you have it. I suggest you don't be a fanboy next time and try to actually use productive, accurate arguments to counter those who do have. All i've seen from you is blind fanboyism and selective bias. You've horribly misunderstood the quote where Lucas said the "Dark Side is more powerful". What he meant was is that it's ONLY more powerful in the aspect that it's easier to use and faster - but at what price? It inevitably backfires, it cannot sustain itself and it cannot win because it's self-destructive by its very NATURE. Lucas also said that the natural state of the Force is the LIGHT SIDE, henceforth "The Force". The Dark Side is an abomination of the Force that isn't meant to be there, but it is because blind individuals think it gives them ultimate power. Dark Siders cannot achieve true immortality - which is where they can keep their individual will from merging with the force, WHILE STILL being merged with the force. This is something only light siders can achieve; confirmed by the novels and the saga itself. The Force in Star Wars is infinite, thus a Light Sider who has regained his individuality on merging with the Force is 1000x more powerful than any Sith has ever been. If you were right that the Dark Side was 100% more powerful than the Light, I wouldn't have needed to correct your horrid, so terribly inaccurate claims. I'm an avid supporter of Canon lore.. so pretty much, you should learn from this. Case closed.

Afaik the Dark Side is more powerful in a certain aspect. It grants on demand power; the typical "in exchange for a shorter run in life, you gain more power" bargain. The Light Side, in the long run, is more powerful at the cost of requiring more patience and self-disciplin. This is pretty much self-explainatory lmao. There is a "TL;DR" explaination for it but it's pretty much the same points. It's common sense; why would the Dark Side be more powerful when you cannot retain your own individual will when you die, and why (in the EU, that is) do Dark Siders go to the SW variation of 'Hell'? (The Chaos Realm). The former of what I just said is actually depicted in THIS game, giving elaboration as to why Sith still linger in the physical world in alot of scenarios even after death. It's the Star Wars variation of modern 'paranormal' spiritualism where a troubled, bad spirit is afraid of moving on/needs help moving on and finding their way (because it requires surrendering something. And in this case, very likely passion - the source of a Sith/Dark Siders power). Sith/Dark Siders refuse to die, because it goes without a doubt that they're afraid of losing their power. By doing that, they remain as a Dark Side Ghost. They're bound/clinging to whatever hopes they have of retaining their power, as opposed to Light Sided practitioners who openly accept their fate - which gives you insight as to why you see more Dark Side ghosts than you do light, though the irony encompassing that is that when you see a Light sided ghost they have TEN-TIMES the significance than 99% of Dark Sided ghosts. However, as is iterated and depicted, only light siders can attain a status of true immortality. But this requires ALOT of patience and esoteric knowledge, when they do achieve this state in the force they can, at will, call upon their individual will and affect the world around them with an INFINITE SOURCE (the Force) fueling their existence. This is why I always vouche for Jedi; Sith lost in the beginning. It's in their very nature to lose because they adhere to the primal aspects of instinct, rather than trying to hone and tame them like the Jedi do. The Dark Side, as much as it brings you instant gratifying measures of power, ensures that you wont hold onto it forever. As for alot of people seem to interpret (particularly the younger peers who like Star Wars), 'true immortality' isn't what the Sith Emperor has attained or the state of Abeloth's entity. As long as there's a way to kill you you're not really immortal, and what's more you can't kill Light Sided Spirits (Reference: Abeloth and her consumption of a Jedi Knight. There are dozens of better references than that, in which Sith have tried to vanquish light sided spirits but despite their efforts it was all in vain). You can disembody their spirit but they can simply reform - which is not the case for Dark Sided spirits (if you choose Dark Side for Revan and vanquish the spirit of Ajunta Pall I think it is as an example, you destroy his spirit for good. My view on that? He no longer has the mental strength enough to hold on, it was sapped by Revan killing him. Exar Kun's spirit was also vanquished for good with Luke's help and the new Jedi Order). tl;dr - Dark Side - short run. Light Side - long run. So yes, which is more powerful is up to perspective but as i've elaborated in my post I will always go for the Light - the Dark Side has too many flaws and its BIGGEST of them is the fact it backfires (and most of the Sith that happens to claim such things are incapable of them/believe that so. Arrogance. One such being a perfect example.. the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Darth Sidious). Not just that, but derp.. power in the Dark Side is temporary. That should be enough to sway you from it. I don't know about you, but the word "temporary" should cause contemplation on the spot. If it was possible for Dark Siders to attain ultimate power, there'd be accounts of it in Star Wars. There aren't; only Jedi/the Shamans that taught Qui-Gon etc have attained it.

Sorry to upset the Revan fanboys, but SWTOR has shown REvan was not all as powerful as he was made out to be. He *SPOILER!!* dies in the Foundry Flashpoint to a group of young aspiring Sith/mercs/agents etc. And no, he wasn't weakened. He was weakened in the rescue flashpoint on the Republic's side, by the Foundry Flashpoint he had fully recovered. Vader wins - chosen one, born of the force. And to counter-act lightning being hte end of Vader, no it wouldn't. Anything short of Sidious's force lightning wont bring Vader down; read the Force Unleashed novel. He's incredibly resistant to it.

I'm going to answer this with one, swift sentence. THIS ISN'T A SANDBOX MMO, CASE CLOSED. Seriously, stop bloody comparing it to this.

Darth Nihl, not Nihilus. Nihilus sucked, imo. Darth Nihl, the right-hand man of Darth Krayt, would be destroyed by Starkiller. Initially he'll put up a fight but Starkiller's power canonically had the potential to rival Darth Sidious (and yes, that was confirmed).

He required a ritual to do so. In comparison to someone like Darth Sidious (who COULD consume planets at will, without the need of relics and rituals), Vitiate's utilization of planet-consuming power is limited. And in regards to Vitiate incapacitating Revan in an instant, Sidious also displayed his usage of Lightning is on an entirely higher level than that (bending Windu's lightsaber blade in the ROTS novel.. no Sith has ever done that). You should also bare in mind that par SWTOR, it reveals that Revan isn't really that strong anymore. The newer generation of Sith and Jedi eclipse his power (SPOILER: he dies in the Foundry flashpoint and it's canon). But in terms of mental/psychic powers through the force, Vitiate is dominant because he's in hundreds of places at once (SPOILER: The "Voice of the Emperor's". There's dozens of them, not just one). This would be close, but i'd say Exar Kun would win in the end. He was recognized by the Ancient Sith Lords as the true heir to the Sith (and was proclaimed as such by Marka Ragnos himself) in comparison to Vitiate who is shunned and hated by the Ancients - and guess who Vitiate's former master used to be? Marka Ragnos.

Um, unfortunately... no one spoke about Nihilus. I did not once say Nihilus is power. Darth Vitiate =/= Darth Nihilus. Vitiate is LEAGUES ABOVE Nihilus. Read into him. And no, it's not perspective. I mean jesus christ, the creator of the movies stated Darth Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord ever, the EU backs it up, the Novels back it up. And the are, as a matter of fact, still as canon as the movies par the licensing team of LucasArts. This means the details that were left out of the movies to be confirmed in the novels STILL COUNT - the Author of the Prequel trilogy novels made it very clear that GEORGE LUCAS HIMSELF DID THE FINAL EDIT OF THE NOVELS. Again, as you were somehow mistaken into thinking Vitiate = Nihilus.. read again. Abeloth, who I also mentioned in my post, is unarguably even more powerful than Vitiate and Sidious. Case closed.

As i'm aware the purple Crystal is a high-end drop and can also be obtained via PvP gear

Actually, if you read the Novel you'd clearly know that Windu hadn't won the fight at all. He disarmed Sidious, who was particularly prepared to annihilate Windu with force lightning alone. His lightning BENT WINDU'S LIGHTSABER BLADE. He wasn't even channeling the full force of his lightning and it STILL bent his lightsaber blade - no other Sith, EU or Movie-canon wise, has ever done that before to a lightsaber blade with lightning. All this is in the Novel. If Sidious wanted, he could've destroyed Windu there and then with ease. He relented in his assault only to turn Anakin Skywalker, whom he considered to have been the perfect Apprentice (potential-wise). As for the duel of Sidious versus Yoda? If again, anyone read the novel, it states quite clearly that Yoda realized he was absolutely no match for Darth Sidious. Yoda accepted that he had LOST before the fight had even begun. He was being toyed with and wasn't even a relative threat to Sidious anymore. His lightning overloaded Yoda's Absorb in a relatively short amount of time.. He was toying with Yoda in the movie, and he did so in more elaborate detail in the novel. The most powerful Sith ever is Darth Sidious; even the Ancient Sith lords knelt before him. In the EU, it's still Darth Sidious - being able to create destructive wormholes that could destroy planets at whim and inclination of thought (WITHOUT the need of artifacts or force-enhancing relics or rituals). Sidious is only closely followed by Darth Vitiate/the Sith Emperor of TOR; but in terms of personal power, Sidious beats him. The most powerful Jedi ever was Yoda, and if we involve the EU it becomes Luke Skywalker. Now if we go for the most powerful Dark Sided BEING ever? That would be Abeloth; she toyed with the god-tier Luke Skywalker and wiped the floor with him after he defeated her the first time. If any of the four of Luke, Vitiate, Sidious or Yoda were to face her.. she'd pretty much just consume their essence. She's even more ancient that Darth Vitiate; so ancient, that infact, her true age is unknown - the closest definition of her is a "Force Demon", since she exists in a different realm altogether while affecting the galaxy. Sorry to burst your bubble, but TFU IS canon. Starkiller had the potential to rival Darth Sidious - making him a would-have-been most powerful Sith Lord ever; a potential that was never realized because he dies and his clone becomes a disillusioned Gray Jedi. Edit: to the post below: It's worse being an empire comprising of thousands of Sith and a full military regime yet still being unable to destroy the Republic and conquer the galaxy, only to be ultimately defeated barely even able to get to the heart of the Jedi as opposed to being a Galactic Empire comprising of only TWO Sith (one who happened to have been the most powerful Sith ever) yet managing to wipe out the Jedi Order and the Republic in one maneuver.

I remember reading it. Boba, actually, lost the fight.. Vader grew tired and stopped holding back. Read it again he respected Fett because he actually lasted a minute, but quite literally all he had to do was raise his hand and utilize the force.. Boba lost. Vader only initially underestimated Fett. Fett managed to score a single blaster shot on the forehead of Vader's helmet, literally doing no damage. That's pretty much when Vader decided to end it (and with relative ease..). It pretty much shows you have little to no advantage against a skilled Jedi/Sith/Sensitive unless you plan ahead and thoroughly examine them. Even then, you're likely to lose... Against Jedi or Sith rabble? Yeah, you have a fight on your hands. But against a seasoned one? Not much chance. Jango Fett barely escaped his encounter with Kenobi with help from his clone son, Boba. He utilized the majority of his primary armaments to try and kill Kenobi, even with the auto-cannons from the Slave-1. There's no natural defense against the Force and its Techniques (save for the mind-based abilities) for a non-sensitive like Boba or Jango.

Indeed. It is confirmed that the Jedi Order (and the Sith, iirc) did train students Martial Arts as a fallback/last resort. Just that said "Martial arts" haven't really been titled.. Teras Kasi was said to have been adopted by the Jedi and they were trained in it to some degree. Complicating as the Mandalorians themselves have their own hand-to-hand form as well. Meetra however studied the Echani form (more specifically proportions of it). The Echani were reverred for being amazing hand-to-hand combatants. Isn't there some lore-material which says that the Teras Kasi form adopted some of the Echani art as a basis? I think I remember reading that somewhere.

Unfortunately from information gathered, Darth Plagueis could not have created Anakin via manipulation of the force. The timeline simply doesn't match, as Sidious made it apparent that Plagueis had only "recently" discovered how to manipulate midichlorians into creating life before he was killed in his sleep. It was at that moment Sidious became aware that Plagueis intended to replace Sidious with a perfect being of force potential, so he killed him. During this time Anakin was already a young Padawan. Plagueis already knew it was possible to "create" a perfect force sensitive by midichlorian manipulation, but he didn't know how to do it - it was theory. When he DID discover how to do it.. that's when Sidious killed him. Before that he already knew how to preserve the life of another and prevent them from dying (a total different game from playing God and creating life itself out of "nothing", which in itself is HEAPS beyond a tremendous feat). Many Sith, particularly in SWTOR, have shown this is possible.. but most likely not in the measure Plagueis could perform (as i'm aware, Plagueis could actually BRING people back from the dead, though it was dependant). Darth Vitiate could sustain the life of another for hundreds upon hundreds of years (as he does with his personal apprentice, The Emperor's Wrath (Scourge comes to mind, and now the new Emperor's Wrath )). The timeline doesn't match.

Unfortunately, Novelizations aren't less canon than the movies are. Lucas actually editted and modified the novels HIMSELF (and if you need confirmation on that, simply search it up. The author actually stated that Lucas had the final read-over and edit of the novels). Boba survived. Case closed.