Yeah, glad I watched it. It's pretty much the opposite of what I read someone else paraphrase. It's kind of hard to hear what he says over the game, but from Charles Boyd's reply, I can ascertain: - The SWTOR team DOES send stuff to the story group and interact with them. - Says they are cool to work with. - They mostly check to make sure that stuff "fits." It's still not a positive assertion that SWTOR is Legends or Canon. It could be that the story group is just monitoring SWTOR because things are still uncertain. Who knows. But at least we do know that the Story Group credit isn't lip service, or just a legal thing. And that even after April 25th's announcement, they still do interact. The Story Group is still overseeing SWTOR for some reason.

edit: found it.

Oh cool, I had no idea they were archived. Checking it out now.

Charles Boyd, the head writer, said a tweet on April 25th that sounded like he kind of wasn't sure where it fell either. Something like "whether we're Legends or Canon, I am appreciative for working with all these great people." Then I just heard today that this week's stream they do of SWTOR (which I think Charles Boyd is a part of) one of that team (or Charles, I dunno, I heard this second hand since I missed the stream) said the story group does not constrain them, and they are able to write pretty open ended. So, that kind of isn't a definitive thing. But to me it sounds like its still up in the air, or indeed it is the ONLY piece of Legends that is ongoing with new Legends content. Really, for me, at this point, I think unless Charles Boyd or Bioware make a statement, its kind of like waiting for the next big expansion and seeing if the story group's credit is on that one or how they handle things.

I tend to not pick and choose. So for me, its an average game. Is Canon Star Wars better than Legend Star Wars (IMHO, this is just talking, not insulting)? Yeah. For me. Simply because of averages, though SW Canon has the advantage of 99% of its current canon material being extremely well produced and fun to experience, even at its worst. Are the prequels great movies? No. They have deep rooted structural issues that are far more problematic than a CGI character (even though thats everyone's pain point, which I don't agree with). But you know, those prequels still get played in my house all the time. They feel and sound and move resoundingly like Star Wars. Even at their worst. I put in Revenge of the Sith all the time, even though its my least favorite film out of the 6. Its aesthetics are great though, for Star Wars. Its production is terrific. It has major structural problems (including a movie's worth of exposition put into the last 10 minutes). But that STILL fits the universe better than Dark Empire, or Glove of Darth Vader, or even the Kevin J Anderson TOTJ stuff (which has not aged well, and just isn't very good sequential storytelling to begin with. Its all exposition). Frankly there's even parts of KOTOR 1 that I kind of shrug and go "Yeah, this is a bit off." There's times when KOTOR 1 moves and feels like a Star Trek TOS episode more than Star Wars. If I throw TCW, and those 6 movies in a basket and jump into a Star Wars month, experiencing that stuff chronologically (plus the Darth Maul comic, which is right now all of the confirmed canon)-- but then adversely I throw 85788438 books, video games, everything from my EU list of chronology in a basket... Well... The new April 25th canon is my preference. I think its resoundingly more Star Wars. That's a big deal. There still are not a whole lot of producers and writers out there that can mimic the FEEL of the Star Wars movies very well. Even Zhan, I would argue. The books are some of the best, and still not as good as the very worst episode of TCW. I think there's plenty of material, and great SW material, in canon, now that we have TCW. I typically used to go off of this list, by the way, for my "full Star Wars exploration" prior to April 25th: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_Legends_media Ha. Those dedicated boys and girls have already changed that to be Legends. Its actually cool now they have this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_media Back on topic (its hard to not just go full throttle into the canon vs legends argument, for sure)... Do I want SWTOR in there? More than anything. I love the game. And honestly-- out of all the EU stuff it is really really one of the few things that is closest to FEELING Star Wars. I want it in there if the powers that be do. If they don't, then I'll play along. It could be that there's some line in Episode 7 where a guy is like "Oh, there's never been an Emperor more powerful than Sidious." Who knows. None of us know their plans, so there could be a valid reason for all of this. I don't think its just "eh, scrap it all because its easy." There's also very little marketing value in doing what they did, so I don't buy that it was a pure business decision. I think they have good reasons. And they really have not let me down much since the start of the "new era of LFL" when they started TCW. That stuff got on track well. So I'm not gonna question it. I just want some heads up one way or the other. Right now it is NOT confirmed as legends, and NOT confirmed as canon. I still think its maybe one singular example of that in the entire EU right now.

Also, I commend TrooperClay for the TCW spotting. That Vizsla quote is good. That stuff helps.

The point is that the new ruling was supposed to not have a gray area, and it kind of does. Unless literally SWTOR content prior to 4/25 is not canon, and after that it is. A lot of people keep throwing around the "post-ROTJ is only affected" thing, and thats not true. 100% all EU material is now Legends. Whether its before or after ROTJ or anything. The only thing that makes SWTOR any different, and raises any question are the facts so far we've stated. Specifically the story group's involvement/credit which is found, as well as the fact that it has ongoing story content, and from LFL, "All games, books, etc" will be canon (not c-canon, z-canon, or anything else) and be overseen for continuity issues and approved by the same story group who is credited in GSF (our last digital expansion) from SWTOR. Now, the only reason that SWTOR would be forfeit is the fine line they do not say, which is "All NEW games, etc," and SWTOR only has new story content every 8-10 weeks. It is not a newly produced game post April 25th. I am hopeful though. I really hope it does stay canon. Someone a page back mentioned SWTOR cannot be canon due to the fact it references old Sith lords and events in prior books and games. They have already stated through a senior person this does not matter. I've said it before, but Darth Bane exists as canon, and can be in future stories, even though the Darth Bane books have been clearly stated as Legends. Those Darth Bane books also take place prior to ROTJ and have been called Legends. We have that confirmed. So the pre-ROTJ, post-ROTJ is not an issue at all. I'm still keeping my eyes peeled for tweets from the heads of licensing or bioware. Those, I feel, are where the real horses mouth is. Pretty much everything else I've read is either contradictory, or just editorial conjecture from like Wired or whatever.

That article has been linked now like 4 times in this thread. The article contradicts itself INSIDE its own article. Its like reading something from the Matrix Architect. It makes my brain hurt. It sounds like the quotes are from an intern or something. For example: "Lucasfilm confirms all future Star Wars content to be canon, including the games" ""all aspects of Star Wars storytelling moving forward will be connected."" ""[A]s far as The Old Republic MMO is concerned, nothing is going to change. [TOR] has always been a part of the Expanded Universe, and that's not going to change."" WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY MEAN??!?! IS SWTOR NOT MAKING NEW STORIES GOING FORWARD? !?!?!? IS IT CANON GOING FORWARD?!?!?!?!? YOU SAY "NOTHING IS CHANGING." WHAT?!?!?!? USE YOUR WORDS, JOURNALIST!!!!

I dunno about a new class. But I think the newest 2 flash points show that the "new story arc" as they call it definitely has more to do with the war at hand.

All LFL personnel rarely use the term EU after April 25th. Its part of their branding going forward. They refer to it as Legends now. So as I say, I wouldn't pay that article much credence. That quote from them doesn't mirror any of the other facts anywhere else. My best hunch right now is that SWTOR is not being forgotten, but is also not firmly set in stone yet. My hunch is that the powers that be are still figuring out how to really deal with it. My hunch is that they are probably nervous about calling all of SWTOR canon, considering there's some things that they probably view as not a good introductory piece to the universe. Maybe things like how the Empire looks and acts so similar to the modern day SW Empire. I personally find it pretty cool that maybe Palpatine knew about all of that from scrolls or whatever, and was like "My Empire will bear a great resemblance to the Sith Empire of old." But maybe that doesn't quite add up with their own logic and history for various reasons. And then simultaneously maybe they do want to be involved with story content going forward on SWTOR. I figure its probably hard for them to reconcile 1.0-2.0 of the game which the story group wasn't so involved in, while still wanting to be a part of it going forward.

I'll also say: I think the 2 new FP's we got are a precursor to the next expansion. Not Galactic Strongholds, but the one after that Bruce talked about a bit. Its supposedly a kind of RotHC level expansion in terms of story. Which makes me scratch my head. I'll be curious to see how both digital expansions credits roll. If they still have that story group credit, even after the April announcement, that will be interesting.

Yeah I kind of don't really use that quote at all for two reasons: 1) We don't know who the rep is. 2) What EU? As of April 25th there isn't an EU. There's Legends (which is the EU) and Canon. They aren't really using the same verbiage we've been seeing from LFL as of the announcement. So I think it may be baloney. Or an intern or something.

Hey Trooper - Thanks! I saw your comment about the Shae and Sacking of Coruscant stuff. I looked it up on wookiepedia though and cannot find the reference you mention. Do you have more details? And forgive me, there's like 20 pages of stuff in that thread. Would you mind bulleting out your facts? I'm researching this stuff pretty heavily, and the 2 things I found from you seemed relevant to my interests. I want to make sure I'm not missing some. Again, and please do let me know what episode of TCW Vizla mentions Shae. I cannot find it. Eric

You quoted an editorial on the whole thing. Very little of that is factual or from anyone senior at Lucasfilm or Bioware.

I mostly agree. Its a simplified analogy. If I wanted to mirror the exact circumstances it would mean adding an additional 2 paragraphs, and then it falls flat. IE: "Castles in the old sandbox seemed to start with Michelangelo Buonarroti architecture, and then stuff started seeming like a mixture of Andrea Palladio and Louis Le Vau. Completely contradictory in style." But then of course, why would 5 year olds know about that stuff? It doesn't apply, so forgive me for making it the lowest common denominator. I'm right with you. I tend to really get into stuff I know is canon. Others do not. I'm not about an "us vs them" argument though. In my research about SW canon, that stuff just creates miles and miles of stuff to surf through before I reach real facts about the status of things. Personally, I like franchises like Halo or Warcraft, where there IS a story group and a real complex honoring of all forms of the license. A Halo book doesn't come out without the game guys agreeing it fits with future plans. Star Wars has never gotten that. But then I don't think Halo, Warcraft, and most other franchises would handle their licenses the way they started in the 2000s, if SW didn't pave new paths in the 90s. Personally, I think Star Wars just now is seeing the value in getting with the times. But like a lot of things Lucasfilm, I do believe they paved the way first with much success. EU fans wouldn't be so impassioned right now and vehement if things were handled badly. But in regards to your note about preferring the universe to be infinite, and also my whole "sandbox" thing, I think Star Wars CAN be infinite. But when we get to something like the Clone Wars, where there are 4 competing timelines, its a sign of a problem. Either someone has to clean house, or the have to do SOMETHING. Which they did. Some are mad. I'm not. But that is my personal preference. I definitely see both sides of the argument. I just prefer, when I sit down to experience the Star Wars universe, a canonical presentation from the powers that be. And that's what I'm getting now. My analogy with the sandbox isn't about the importance of the old sandbox. Its just to illustrate the reasons why someone would make such a drastic move. I see the merit in it. Not everyone does. But there's pages and pages and pages of "we don't agree" everywhere on the internet on this topic.