Open with OS if its up, but it does not really matter. The key to PVE dailys and general questing it to remember that TA procs off of deaths. a single Cull with a dot will kill weak mobs usually, but if not, two will. So you open with HS, then CG, then FG. That will probably kill a normal mob granting you your second TA. Tab to another Mob (which stills should have CG dot) and WB with Cull. Use FG off cooldown and keep rotating mobs Culling them getting TAs after each death. Throw in Shivs, WB, FG, and CG as needed. Its really very easy as long as you remember that each time a mob dies you get a TA proc. You are capped at 2 so use them or lose them by Culling.

I think Lethality is getting better each patch and when 2.7 hits we will be in a decent spot. Still need that 100% proc on TA from Fatality though. Lets look at some boons: We got a buff to baseline hidden strike damage and its cost was lowered. We got a buff to how long TA lasts - making it more likely that we can cull on our own terms.. We got an extra tick from Corrosive dart from the Lethal Injectors rework Orbital Strike casts faster and can be used more often - less damage but way more utility. We are getting a more powerful shield probe that we will talent to down to 14 seconds. We are getting a buff to the baseline damage reduction from Shield Probe. Exfiltrate won't cost us any energy. So, how does this help us? Well the changes to 2.6 are not amazing, but not bad either. Some people view the Orbital Strike as a big nerf and it is for damage, but being able to cast it faster and more often means much more utility on stopping caps. I really like the change. Currently, Lethality Ops suffer from quite a few problems. Our biggest issue is that we are very squishy and don't have the front loaded burst or stealth to avoid melee classes killing us quickly. This leads to a "dot - then dart in and kill" play style. With the buff to shield probe, we can stay in melee much longer. Another big problem with Lethality Ops is that we need 100% energy to do our burst rotation. This means that using Exfiltrate kills our potential when gap closing to do our back loaded burst. No longer. Now that I will be able to roll twice and still have 100% energy- those pesky kiters will eat my 3 Culls to the face. If anything, the biggest thing we need now is to not have to play the "Fatality guessing game". This sucks to not get a proc. Fix this Bioware - it's stupid. Lastly - Smash got nerfed and they are the bane of my squishy Lethality ***. So overall. I think we are looking decent next patch.

No. The closest thing is lethality which is the shared tree. You have some ranged abilities but your rotation (PvE and PvP) will have mandatory Melee abilities. There are a few videos of some PvP Lethality Ops floating around where they just dot from from range and throw a off heal here and there, but they are playing incorrectly and doing more harm than good. I suggest playing one of the ranged classes if that is your thing.

The lower tiers of the trees for each advanced class and of course the shared tree have a symbiotic relationship with each other. If you make changes to one, then the other is affected. While all of the changes were certainly made with the concealment operative in mind, I think its fair to make a statement about how this affects that relationship. Its also most likely a ***** fest about how Lethality Ops in PvP need some love .. They have almost entirely been ignored for the life cycle of this game.

Your expectations vary from mine. The goal should be to make all 24 Trees competitive. Of course there will always be classes that are easier to play and slightly better, but quite a few trees are outright broken in this game. There is a reason that you see the same types of classes in all these premades and the same comps in Arenas. Why should I have to re-roll if I don't want to be saddled into a single tree or playstyle? I expect more out of my game.

Why is Lethality a PvE spec? I don't think the developers have ever stated that their intention was that Lethality should only be used for PvE. In fact, most of the high tier talents in the Lethality tree, escape plan, augmented shields, Lingering toxins, and quickening are PvP talents. This tree was created as as a shared tree with PvP intentions. No, whats really happening is that the develops don't care or don't know how to make this tree work for operatives without buffing snipers and concealment operatives. I also don't think that its unreasonable to have every AC able to work in PvP. Its the developers job to do this. The lack of feedback - just in PvP in general is incredible. With 2 AAA MMOs (that are built from the ground up with PvP in mind) coming out in the next 6 months, I suspect that Swtor will be hurting shortly.

This is probably the most accurate description of the PvP Lethality Op issues. The fluff damage we do with our dots really hides many of the blaring problems with this AC.

Arena no. Lethatlity Ops have very high burst but only after they apply all their dots 3 and then build up 2 TA and apply WB. You also need lots of energy to pull it off. You have to play as an opportunist dotting people from range and then running in to finish people off. If you get caught in the middle of the splash zone you will drop very quickly.

I would move Incisive action to tier 2, move chem resistant inlays to tier 7 and move surprise surgery down to to tier 1. That would allow Lethality Operatives to get 2 stacks of TA right off the bat. This would keep lethality snipers from getting a buff. I am not sure how much it would change the opening rotation for concealment ops though..

I am going to try to bump this thread just to keep this discussion going - if possible. Lethality Operatives may be fine in PVE, but definitely not okay in PvP.

It would add more WS/Culls too.

I knew it was a large health upgrade - 95 endurance but didn't think the damage was that high. How large of an upgrade is it?

I understand your point, and I agree with you. The whole system is completely screwed up. I am just tying to point out that only healers and possibly tanks can benefit from the 46s but they both would be sacrificing a lot of damage for a health and slight tech upgrade. The real problem is that we are using pve MH/OH instead of pvp gear.

You sure about that? T-elos post 2 pages later that white damage is significantly lower using those mods. here: and Here:

This is not better. White Damage is significantly lower. Only healers and possibly tanks can benefit from using this exploit.