While understanding rotations and setting up burst windows are important for PVP, I'm not sure it's that difficult for a casual player because the abilities literally glow when crits are proc'd. However, it's being able to utilize DCDs effectively that separates PVP from PVE, and unfortunately 90% of all PVE content in the game can be completed without ever using a DCD. As a result, most of the players who play PVE are going to be wholly prepared to defend themselves in a mode that requires them to cycle through DCDs. Making PVE more difficult so that players have to understand how defensives for their class work would go a long way into giving them the confidence to play PVP with confidence.

There are limits to the algorithm. One is time, they don't want to have groups waiting for half an hour for an unranked warzone match. The second is that the algorithm usually treats all groups as equal, meaning the algorithm sees the DPS duo-queue as the same as a 4-man trinity comp group. However, the algorithm does exist. With all due respect, most of these threads exist because those players complaining about premades queue solo. and are ignorant of how the algorithm affects matchmaking. I understand this is anecdotal, but from my experience queueing PVP with friends, the queue almost always places my group against another group.

The OP states that SWTOR will never have the population to support multiple group PVP'ers, yet, wants SWTOR to put in a separate queue for group PVPers. I'm confused. The queues already prioritize groups to go against other groups.

I would have rated Musco's post much higher if he just came out and said the reason for removing ranked and the leaderboards was because Bioware decided that ranked PVP was not worth allocating any more developer resources on. Evident by the last two years of no longer investigating win trading, totally botching the top 96 rewards of the final season, and allowing players to experience the longest competitive offseason in gaming history. The idea of removing leaderboards and flagging to combat toxicity is patronizing and laughable. There have been so many players get banned for toxicity, only to be allowed back into SWTOR a couple weeks later where they engage in the same, toxic behavior. What is going to happen with 7.2 is that people are going to continue to experience toxicity in PVP, but because ranked is gone, and there is no flags or anything to really spot who is a ranked player and who is not....the community won't be able to scapegoat ranked players for all their frustrations in SWTOR PVP.

I mean Implying ranked players are neckbeards is pretty bad faith.

When new players try out PVP, in any game, there is usually an expectation that they're going to die a lot. If players who are new to PVP do not want to stick around, it is rarely because of 'ranked premades' killing them over and over again. The two prevailing reasons for players not committing to progressing in PVP are that they do not find the gameplay loop enjoyable and the other would be if they felt success in PVP was unattainable unless they committed hundreds of hours to grinding gear. I cannot stress how important it is for new players that queue up for PVP to understand that they will die and die a lot when they first play warzones. I remember my PVP experience in 4.0 and earlier patches revolving around unlocking 4X or Pierce and just getting steamrolled. However, I understood that PVP can be brutal, and expecting the queue to adjust to my inexperience would be foolish. If I truly wanted to become good at PVP, I had to commit and more importantly ask for help. One other important thing to note is that most 'ranked premades' that farm kills over and over again....do not play ranked. The forums need to stop scapegoating ranked players for the failures of SWTOR PVP.

Biggs's video on the meta was him complaining about the existence of a meta, he didn't really go into specifics as to why the 7.0 meta in particular is bad for the game. Just stating that some classes are not viable in end-game PVP or PVE is not going to cut it because every meta in SWTOR featured a "if you are playing x class you are throwing" dynamic. Furthermore, he calls 7.0 the Stealth Meta which really only applies to 4 DPS Solo Ranked games. Once tanks and/or heals are put into play, the meta shifts drastically in favor of PTs (both specs) at the expense of burst stealth classes like Fury Mara and Deception Sin. Even Vengeance Juggernaut becomes way more viable. This is evident in Group Ranked where most of the team comps are OP Heals, Sin/PT Tank and 2 PTs. If anything, 7.0 didn't change the meta enough with regards to DPS classes as PTs and Leth ops are still the most viable DPS specs. 7.0 did vary the meta for tanks because PT tanks are probably the best tanking spec, but sin tanks cannot be overlooked as well. Merc and Op heals are in a good spot with the latter being slightly more competitive, though a lot of that has to deal with the fact that fights which involve the trinity comp usually lead to everyone stacking which helps Op heals.

I'm sure you're not alone but I don't think PVP was more fun and rewarded more skill in 6.0. Whatever cheese mechanics you believe is in 7.0 was multiplied in 6.0. Force Bound + Grit Teeth Jugg tanks were everywhere. Concealment operatives spamming rolls and ccs because they could. Lightning sorcs killing framerates with their chain lightning attacks. PTs had to be nerfed several times and were still obnoxious. There are more examples, but 6.0 could be unbearable at times. I do feel the ability pruning in 7.0 is incomplete as I don't think Juggs should have their two CCs baseline among other things. I also do think the gap between certain classes is too large in 7.0, 7.1 is looking to change that though. Regardless, I think 7.0 was a step in the right direction, less cheese mechanics like Force-Bound and less hyper-mobility abilities make positioning more important. More dedication to ability pruning and slightly more class balance will make 7.0 that much more enjoyable.

You're not wrong, tanking is definitely the more difficult of the trinity in ranked while simultaneously being the most impactful. I would like to add one important bit of context to tanking criticism in ranked. Since the days of having dozens of servers and no-cross faction PVP, there has always been a distrust of "bad tanks" in ranked. Similarly to heals, tanks get matched up specifically with other tanks and if one tank is clearly superior to the other, the former will win nearly every time. Such a disparity in skill is often used by "not bad tanks" to climb by farming "bad tanks" for ELO. It's not always clear if the "bad tank" is being coerced to queue solo ranked for the benefit of the "not bad tank" or is simply in the wrong place wrong time. Regardless, ranked players get very suspicious when they see a "bad tank" continue to queue solos, especially when another tank is in queue who seems to benefit the most from the "bad tank's" presence. Anecdotally, I remember having many climbs ruined because of tanks farming "bad tanks" in order to gain hundreds of ELO in a night. It's well-known secret that some tanks will look for "bad tanks" on fleet and pay them to queue ranked. BW is not totally in the dark in this because usually the classes which most commonly have their rank reset are tank specs for that very reason. That's not to say I approve of flaming tanks that don't perform well as I want tanks who are genuinely interested in getting better in ranked to keep queueing. However, I would be lying to you if I told you I don't get suspicious if I keep seeing a "bad tank" remaining in queue, especially when another tank is clearly benefiting.

Even if I were to take this explanation at face value, which I don't.......this implies that the leaderboards cannot be trusted as the primary source for gauging top 96 progress. If players gunning for top 96 cannot trust the leaderboards, how will they know if they quality until rewards are given out? Though I guess the vacuous 'backfill rewards' is a way to hedge against players who make too much noise

The main problem with your suggestion is the assumption that every group that queues for unranked PVP is a damage/number farming premade. There are groups in PVP that exist and do objectives, it might seem rare but they are out there. If BW were to follow your suggestion, that group would be going against a damage/number farming premade in arena every time. That being said, BW has attempted to address the premade issue by prioritizing groups to go AGAINST groups in unranked PVP. The problem is that, while we understand not all groups are the same, BW's matchmaking does not. It views a duo-queue of DPS players the same as a full group with tank/heals. That shouldn't be the case, but it is. Another thing is that BW is attempting to address the issue of having wins-only scrapped and go back to a system where losing does count towards dailies and weeklies, albeit it takes 3x as long. My solution to the issue of premades is and has always been to either collectively improve as a PVP community regarding skill or form groups of your own with people you like to play with. It won't cure everything but it's the easiest and most pragmatic way of addressing the 'premade question'. Also, there seems to be an obsession on this board of punishing players for forming groups for activities in an MMO....I know this comes off as condescending but I really don't think people here understand the genre they're playing.

You're right I took it personally when you said While I'm not an angel, I at least attempt to give players more knowledge and encouragement in PVP so they have more confidence to keep playing PVP and eventually test themselves in ranked. It's a lot more productive than premades + ranked players = bad. You can lol all you want but at the end of the day, you have ruined just as many players experience in PVP as those "ranked players". Also you should care what other people think of you, it's part of being in a community.

Excuse me, but what have you done to make the PVP community a better place? I do not see you forming groups with people, creating pvp guilds, offering advice, offering encouragement, you just make spiteful remarks about premades and ranked players. In fact, I find it ironic that you are criticizing 'premades' for ruining the experience of other players in casual PVP, yet you constantly, in 6.0 stood AFK in corners of maps, contributing nothing to PVP or your team. Before you even dare answering it was because of premades, no, you threw in the towel for players that were trying to win. Please don't lecture anyone here about 'being better for PVP'. If you are not suggesting they are the same, then do not treat them as analogous situations. The difference in attitudes for ranked and unranked are based on the difference in stakes. It is that simple.

It's different because Elo is tied to end of season rewards, it's a very simple, objective, correlation. Fun, on the other hand, is entirely subjective. Furthermore, you're comparing a casual PVP mode where people can either queue solo or in group with a competitive mode where people cannot queue in a group. You are comparing apples and oranges.

I do think there needs to be a distinction between 'number farmers' and 'kill farmers' because you can win plenty of unranked warzones with the latter. There are a lot of warzones that award points based on kills such as Hypergate, Yavin 4, Voidstar to an extent. Not to mention it's easier to play objectives on most maps when the other team is in their spawn. IMO, number farmers are different, they usually play AOE/DoT specs and their whole goal is to find where the other team is clumped up, kamikaze themselves while spamming AOEs (vengance jugg cut-to-pieces good example). Often times their damage gets healed by the other team's healers so nothing gets accomplished. They don't help in objs and don't really contribute to killing anything, in fact, they'll try not to kill anyone because the more targets that are alive = more targets to spread dots etc. Depending on the map, they can even hurt your team's chances of winning. Teams that rack up the kills, I do think you can work with on most maps, but AOE number farmers are much more difficult to win with.