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Practical or For Show?


LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
06.15.2014 , 10:55 PM | #71
Actually what it means is that they could draw almost all power from other ships systems, including other weapons.

Effectively in the case that they were for example fighting head to head, they would turn off the shield generators to the rear of the forward shields, turn off the other weapon systems and engines and redirect all that power into all eight batteries, making them very powerful turrets.

In a case where they fought broadside to broadside, they would turn off the other four turrets not in range and redirect their power into the four that are.

I could give many other examples but you see how useful this feature really was, Venators can quite literally punch above their own weight.

Once you introduce the tactical edge, and numbers, that's when these options truly shine.

Say for example you have four Venators, the forward venator will redirect most of it's power into shields, boosting them considerably, whilst the other three, not taking the brunt of fire redirect pretty much all of their power into the main batteries and decimate the opposition with their highly accurate long range shots(another great feature of the DBY-827), even outnumbered this makes them a strong match for most fleets.

Much more effective than say another four Imperial-class vessels which have little to none of these options and simply rely on brute force to get the job done.

It should also be noted, just in the case of hull armour, that Venator armor withstood 'massive energy blasts' and was effectively immune to even fusion rockets, which were essentially of the same power as nuclear weapons but at a smaller yield.
"The Dark Jedi are in many ways more dangerous than the Sith."
Republic Justice

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
06.15.2014 , 10:59 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Silenceo View Post
isn't it stated that the reason the Venator can redirect so much of its power to its weaponry due to it being a dedicated warship? If so, isn't it, in theory, possible that the later dedicated warships could do the same? Possibly they haven't in the past due to not having as strong of a fighter screen, but I just thought I should ask regarding this point
It's because their hypermatter reactors had cut off points to different systems, they essentially shut a 'valve' of sorts to redirect the energy to other systems, the turbolasers for example were basically really big versions of heat sinks, that ejected the energy going into them, which is why they were so frakkin' powerful.

No such thing is described on any of the IMP star destroyers nor is it seen in any of the ship specification maps.
"The Dark Jedi are in many ways more dangerous than the Sith."
Republic Justice

Silenceo's Avatar


Silenceo
06.15.2014 , 11:17 PM | #73
I know it's from a wiki so the information might be incorrect, but this exert does mention that it is due to being a warship that it can redirect its power in such a manner, which would mean that other dedicated warships farther down the line likely had the same ability.

"The DBY-827 had seven different power settings. This allowed the Venator's pilots and gunners to select a range of destruction, from a small strike to a vaporizing blow. As a true warship, the Venator-class Star Destroyer could divert almost all of its reactor output to its heavy turbolasers when needed. As a result of this, a flotilla of Venators could break through the shields of a Trade Federation battleship with ease.[8]"

The key phrase is "as a true warship" and I might question your sanity if you consider any of the larger imperial ships as not being a true warship. I am not saying that the Venator doesn't get more damage from its heavy weaponry even if this is the case, I am merely saying it might be possible that a MK-I might be able to retaliate in kind. I mean, shifting power from one system to another isn't even really that special. It is even done by the Millenium falcon if I remember right.
"What I unveil today will mark a new era for the Empire. We will be able to decimate the Rebels just as we did the Jedi Knights. At last the Emperor's war will be filled only with the glory and beauty of decisive victory."―Rom Mohc Never force a droid to think without numbers...

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.15.2014 , 11:26 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Actually what it means is that they could draw almost all power from other ships systems, including other weapons.

Effectively in the case that they were for example fighting head to head, they would turn off the shield generators to the rear of the forward shields, turn off the other weapon systems and engines and redirect all that power into all eight batteries, making them very powerful turrets.

In a case where they fought broadside to broadside, they would turn off the other four turrets not in range and redirect their power into the four that are.

I could give many other examples but you see how useful this feature really was, Venators can quite literally punch above their own weight.

Once you introduce the tactical edge, and numbers, that's when these options truly shine.

Say for example you have four Venators, the forward venator will redirect most of it's power into shields, boosting them considerably, whilst the other three, not taking the brunt of fire redirect pretty much all of their power into the main batteries and decimate the opposition with their highly accurate long range shots(another great feature of the DBY-827), even outnumbered this makes them a strong match for most fleets.

Much more effective than say another four Imperial-class vessels which have little to none of these options and simply rely on brute force to get the job done.

It should also be noted, just in the case of hull armour, that Venator armor withstood 'massive energy blasts' and was effectively immune to even fusion rockets, which were essentially of the same power as nuclear weapons but at a smaller yield.
Like I said shifting power settings in combat gives them a tactical edge, but does nto give them an over all firepower edge. If they are surrounded vs if an Imperial is surrounded and both are fighting the enemy at point blank range and need spread damage rather then piercing damage the Imperial will just preform better. It has stronger over all shields comparable armor and more overall firepower. Heck the Invisible hand which is a modified Providence-class Carrier/destroyer (again same class as the Venator) of which its primary modification seems to be proton tube's (largely used for orbital bombardment not ship to ship matches), and flak guns (largely used for missile defense) and a rearangement of assets to allow for more fighters. It was able to match the Guarlara almost blow for blow and it was a third year Venator with Anakin's suggested modifications. While the Guarlara came out on top it took serious damage and time before doing so. An Imperial certainly could do the same put in those point blank ranges, and has in fact taken down hardier ships such as the Mon Cal ships just as quickly.

Other then that I agree with silenceo to a degree about shifting powers. I mean "intensify forward firepower, I dont want anything getting through" does that sound familiar at all.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
06.15.2014 , 11:39 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Silenceo View Post
I know it's from a wiki so the information might be incorrect, but this exert does mention that it is due to being a warship that it can redirect its power in such a manner, which would mean that other dedicated warships farther down the line likely had the same ability.

"The DBY-827 had seven different power settings. This allowed the Venator's pilots and gunners to select a range of destruction, from a small strike to a vaporizing blow. As a true warship, the Venator-class Star Destroyer could divert almost all of its reactor output to its heavy turbolasers when needed. As a result of this, a flotilla of Venators could break through the shields of a Trade Federation battleship with ease.[8]"

The key phrase is "as a true warship" and I might question your sanity if you consider any of the larger imperial ships as not being a true warship. I am not saying that the Venator doesn't get more damage from its heavy weaponry even if this is the case, I am merely saying it might be possible that a MK-I might be able to retaliate in kind. I mean, shifting power from one system to another isn't even really that special. It is even done by the Millenium falcon if I remember right.
It is made celar that this ability by the Venator is NOT common and was special for this ship, being able to change a few power settings here or there is one thing but being able to put almost all reactor output into one set of weapons so much so that they could break through ANY shielding are two very very different things.

Shifting power from one overall system to another is one thing but the Venator could do so to a far greater degree and with ability to even specify between different sets of weapons and shield generators.
"The Dark Jedi are in many ways more dangerous than the Sith."
Republic Justice

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.16.2014 , 04:41 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Silenceo View Post
I know it's from a wiki so the information might be incorrect, but this exert does mention that it is due to being a warship that it can redirect its power in such a manner, which would mean that other dedicated warships farther down the line likely had the same ability.

"The DBY-827 had seven different power settings. This allowed the Venator's pilots and gunners to select a range of destruction, from a small strike to a vaporizing blow. As a true warship, the Venator-class Star Destroyer could divert almost all of its reactor output to its heavy turbolasers when needed. As a result of this, a flotilla of Venators could break through the shields of a Trade Federation battleship with ease.[8]"

The key phrase is "as a true warship" and I might question your sanity if you consider any of the larger imperial ships as not being a true warship. I am not saying that the Venator doesn't get more damage from its heavy weaponry even if this is the case, I am merely saying it might be possible that a MK-I might be able to retaliate in kind. I mean, shifting power from one system to another isn't even really that special. It is even done by the Millenium falcon if I remember right.
That's Wookieepedia's phrasing, I don't think that can be used as a basis for anything.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.16.2014 , 04:45 AM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
That's Wookieepedia's phrasing, I don't think that can be used as a basis for anything.
agreed with that, but it is clear there is a level of power adjustment on all ships just from the movies and games and such. Though that doesnt change the fact that the Venator's DBY's were still toated as more efficient with more settings. Other then that I dont think that changes my overall assessment of overall firepower on the previous page .


Something that can shed some more light on this

Venator
Power output
Peak: 3,6 10^24 W[1]


Imperial I
Power output
Peak: ~7,73 10^24 W[1][8]


any one who knows math can see that the Imperial has nearly DOUBLE the maximum power output.

Silenceo's Avatar


Silenceo
06.16.2014 , 05:50 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
agreed with that, but it is clear there is a level of power adjustment on all ships just from the movies and games and such. Though that doesnt change the fact that the Venator's DBY's were still toated as more efficient with more settings. Other then that I dont think that changes my overall assessment of overall firepower on the previous page .


Something that can shed some more light on this

Venator
Power output
Peak: 3,6 10^24 W[1]


Imperial I
Power output
Peak: ~7,73 10^24 W[1][8]


any one who knows math can see that the Imperial has nearly DOUBLE the maximum power output.
If I recall correctly, the main things that made the MK-II so much more powerful, was that the MK-II had its reactor upgraded which increased its power generation by nearly 20%. To be more exact, Peak: >9,28 10^24 W for the MK-II.
"What I unveil today will mark a new era for the Empire. We will be able to decimate the Rebels just as we did the Jedi Knights. At last the Emperor's war will be filled only with the glory and beauty of decisive victory."―Rom Mohc Never force a droid to think without numbers...

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.16.2014 , 06:09 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Silenceo View Post
If I recall correctly, the main thing that made the MK-II so much more power, was that the MK-II had its reactor upgraded which increased its power generation by nearly 20%. To be more exact, Peak: >9,28 10^24 W for the MK-II.
Correct MK II has

Power output
Peak: >9,28 1024 W[7] (over 20% more power than the ISD-I)[8][9]


But it was more then that guns were upgraded which is why the Imp II has more then 30% more fire power then the Imp I.


The MC 90 http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MC90_Star_Cruiser has the same power output, but its guns total are only a match for the Imp I which if you notice number of turbo lasers (The MC 90's class of turbo lasers are unspecified it just says it has 75) are around the same number, but the Imp I has more Ion cannon and the MC 90 has Proton Torps. The more Ion cannons means the MC 90 needed extra power output on its guns to match the Imp I.



Also in my analysis of the Imp I's fire power I missed Triple medium turbolasers (3) which if I were to calculate it in would obviously bring the Imp I up in firepower, though likely not enough to overcome the Slight advantage I gave to the Venator in Overall Hull Firepower, but to give it a much more demanding lead in Overall Shield Firepower.


If we were to argue tactics I would still say the Venator would win. Its a much more well rounded ship the Imperial has stronger Capital ship firepower but lacks any defense beyond its fighters for other fighters. Its guns pivet to slow and some of them have a safety feature on them the Rebels exploited by flying lower.

While It will put up a fight I think the FIghter swarm will bring it down eventually, especially once the Venators smaller guns deal with the Imp I's fighters and they direct their power into their bigger guns and get some range making only the Imp I's big guns usable, thus allowing it to simply out maneuver and out range giving them the firepower advantage at those ranges.

We can not ignore the tactical options the Venators have.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.17.2014 , 04:43 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
agreed with that, but it is clear there is a level of power adjustment on all ships just from the movies and games and such. Though that doesnt change the fact that the Venator's DBY's were still toated as more efficient with more settings. Other then that I dont think that changes my overall assessment of overall firepower on the previous page .


Something that can shed some more light on this

Venator
Power output
Peak: 3,6 10^24 W[1]


Imperial I
Power output
Peak: ~7,73 10^24 W[1][8]


any one who knows math can see that the Imperial has nearly DOUBLE the maximum power output.
A level yes, but the Venator is clearly unique. On top of that as well as having twice the maximum power output, it has more that double if not triple the number of laser batteries, which means said power is more widely spread.

So basically it cannot divert all its power into its batteries like the Venator can, there are simply too many. The Venator can, which makes those 8 turbolasers incredibly powerful and capable of downing warships in minutes.

Looking at both warships, I think the Venator was designed for lightning tactics whereas the ISDs are designed for attrition. Given that the Venator can deal collosal damage in a short amount of time, whereas an ISD can likely output more damage but over a longer period of time.

And then in addition to that, the Venator's shielding is fairly lax, whereas the ISDs are far more resilient. Though that may have just been a result of the time, a response to the Confederacy's massive prow cannons.

However as we know the Venator's upgraded their armor towards the tail end of the war and that tipped the scales massively, because it could perform lightning fast attacks and hold up against heavy fire which it couldn't before.