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Kaggath Rulebook


Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.04.2014 , 10:49 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Wasn't talking leadership Beni, unless you mean the rules for Leadership apply to your military. In which case that means I can have 2 force-sects as my minor forces as long as the 3rd isn't?

Essentially I'm asking if I can have, for example, the Jensaarai, Sith Assassins, and Imperial Knights because the way the rules are written now it poses no restrictions on force-users in the Military category. (See rules 53-57 & 108)
Ah I see what you mean, I've added the following rules to the relevant sections:

#113 You may choose no more than one Force-wielding unit, regardless of whether it comprises the entire unit or a mere part, when selecting ground forces.

#114 Rule #113 applies when choosing ground forces for Battlegrounds mode.


So don't try it!

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
06.04.2014 , 11:24 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Ah I see what you mean, I've added the following rules to the relevant sections:

#113 You may choose no more than one Force-wielding unit, regardless of whether it comprises the entire unit or a mere part, when selecting ground forces.

#114 Rule #113 applies when choosing ground forces for Battlegrounds mode.


So don't try it!
Actually I like using non-force units so it was more to save myself from someone else
Zey: "Kal, you know that the Sith are bad news. They're evil. They've always been the cause of endless war and carnage across the galaxy."
Skirata: "Oh, that's a good one. 'My decapitations are more morally valid than your decapitations.' Only difference I can see is that they plan to end up with trillions dead, and you do-gooders manage it by accident."

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
07.18.2014 , 05:51 AM | #23
"Actually I tell a lie it can considering that the Empire of Plagues has access to Vong shapers"

"#41 While naval forces do still exist, shipyards (if you have any) can only repair, they cannot resupply. Fleet numbers are therefore static, note that this only applies to capital ships."


Any questions as to the problem yet.....

"Boarding craft and transports are pre-fielded, considering they are not supplier bound."

"Actually I tell a lie it can considering that the Empire of Plagues has access to Vong shapers"


Any questions further......


#67 Fighter complement choices will be restricted to whatever fighters you’re chosen ships have deployed at any point during their usage – though do not attempt to find loopholes.


How bout now...

#69 You cannot have all the vessels and must select a bomber, a fighter and an elite class. Bombers and fighters should be self-explanatory; elite can either be an “elite” starfighter or bomber, the classing of which will be up to the discretion of the Arbiter. It can also constitute a gunship of some kind, but cannot be a transport, which are provided.


or now....

#117 Permissible transports cannot be those considered advanced or otherwise heavily armed, and cannot be used in direct combat, only for self-defense. Noting that this does include basic boarding craft, as long as your chosen vessels are capable of fielding them.

Still wondering what my problem is?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.18.2014 , 06:02 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
Edit: When you are done with that please give me a full list of ships, vehicles, CHaracters, troop types, suppliers, factions, organizations or what ever that arent listed in the starting thread that we will be included, please do this for all the matches from this point on that way we can debate that way from the word go rather then continually feeling like the rules are changing when ever some one feels like it. IE you, people wondered why I was hoping not to participate in this one.
Spoiler

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.18.2014 , 06:03 AM | #25
Please be straight with me, dealing with problems like this is hard enough as it is without the unnecessary games.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
07.18.2014 , 06:12 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Please be straight with me, dealing with problems like this is hard enough as it is without the unnecessary games.
"#41 While naval forces do still exist, shipyards (if you have any) can only repair, they cannot resupply. Fleet numbers are therefore static, note that this only applies to capital ships."

plus "Boarding craft and transports are pre-fielded, considering they are not supplier bound."

"Though if it had guns (which it does) the argument couldn't be made that it can fly around in space shooting down ships, all transports/boarding craft can do is perform the basic task of transportation and/or boarding vessels."

(edited out the does NOT because it does)

Yet "Actually I tell a lie it can considering that the Empire of Plagues has access to Vong shapers, so has full access to all Vong tech, including Tremas."

This final quote constitutes a violation Rule 41.....

#69 You cannot have all the vessels and must select a bomber, a fighter and an elite class. Bombers and fighters should be self-explanatory; elite can either be an “elite” starfighter or bomber, the classing of which will be up to the discretion of the Arbiter. It can also constitute a gunship of some kind, but cannot be a transport, which are provided.

Specifically the first part stats that you Cannot have ALL of the vessels your ships fielded.... by allowing this it comes dangerously close to a violation of rule 69.


#117 Permissible transports cannot be those considered advanced or otherwise heavily armed, and cannot be used in direct combat, only for self-defense. Noting that this does include basic boarding craft, as long as your chosen vessels are capable of fielding them.

This vehicle is in DIRECT conflict with Rule 117, specifically "Advanced" as well as the "cannont be used in direct combat" clauses.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
07.18.2014 , 06:13 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Spoiler
I did use my discretion, which is why I am asking, because clearly Common sense as to what would be against the rules and what isnt.... hasnt worked.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.18.2014 , 06:24 AM | #28
When I said "full access to Vong tech" I did not mean capital ships. The point I was trying to make here is that usually provided transports and boarding craft could not be used for attack. But obviously if you can affliate with transports and boarding craft with a supplier they would have full offensive capability.

To rationalise this in RL terms I'd say that without an affiliated supplier, transports and boarding craft would be weaponless. However if one did have a supplier, that supplier could outfit them with all the bells and whistles before they are deployed by the fleet.

And rule #69 specifically states that transports are provided, which I had every intention to including boarding craft which has now been explicitly specified in rule #117 to make this more clear - Yorik-trema I do not class as advanced. And as I have already said I do not class boarding craft transporting troops to enemy ships as direct combat.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
07.18.2014 , 06:32 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
When I said "full access to Vong tech" I did not mean capital ships. The point I was trying to make here is that usually provided transports and boarding craft could not be used for attack. But obviously if you can affliate with transports and boarding craft with a supplier they would have full offensive capability. To rationalise this in RL terms I'd say that without an affiliated supplier, transports and boarding craft would be weaponless. However if one did have a supplier, that supplier could outfit them with all the bells and whistles before they are deployed by the fleet.

And rule #69 specifically states that transports are provided, which I had every intention to including boarding craft which has now been explicitly specified in rule #117 to make this more clear - Yorik-trema I do not class as advanced.
I am also assuming you dont classify an IN COMBAT landing... to be "Direct conflict" in any way though conflict and combat are one and the same. You are going to need to specify what you call advanced then, cus to me anyting that bores a whole into a capital ship (essentially acting as another weapon in and of itself) constitutes the thing as advanced.... basic boarding ships land in hangars.....

Silenceo (as well as everyone else I am sure) is affiliated with suppliers that build guns and weapons and ships as well, why are they incapable of doing so? If you allow one you have to allow all, special treatment can not be given.... If both are capable of shooting again even if you dont constitute their use in combat as being used in "Direct conflict" there is little doubt that SHOOTing DOES constitute direct conflict. again Violation rule 117.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.18.2014 , 07:03 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
I am also assuming you dont classify an IN COMBAT landing... to be "Direct conflict" in any way though conflict and combat are one and the same. You are going to need to specify what you call advanced then, cus to me anyting that bores a whole into a capital ship (essentially acting as another weapon in and of itself) constitutes the thing as advanced.... basic boarding ships land in hangars.....

Silenceo (as well as everyone else I am sure) is affiliated with suppliers that build guns and weapons and ships as well, why are they incapable of doing so? If you allow one you have to allow all, special treatment can not be given.... If both are capable of shooting again even if you dont constitute their use in combat as being used in "Direct conflict" there is little doubt that SHOOTing DOES constitute direct conflict. again Violation rule 117.
All landings in a Kaggath are going to be "in combat" and I would permit say one using a transport to land behind enemy lines or in enemy territory. Ultimately this is the sole reason why I would allow boarding craft, because there is a difference between aggressively boarding a vessel and actually engaging in fighter combat.

However the real reason I am allowing boarding craft, is because I wan't people to be able to using boarding parties. The rules will and have therefore be altered to reflect that. If you actually manage to find any loopholes all I will do is edit the Rulebook to reflect this, because I have decided that I am allowing boarding craft.

Do not assume this is a case of "oh look boarding craft can be allowed by the rules". This is a case of me deciding boarding craft is allowed and altering the rules to reflect that. Very different.

What is advanced is going to be down to my discretion, unfortunately this is not something we can put a label on. I could just use the label "transport" but I'm sure even then that they're would be plenty exceptions to the rules.

Many boarding craft burrow through hulls:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droch..._boarding_ship
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imper...Boarding_Craft

This is the basic boarding craft of the Vong fleet, assume for a moment that Warren did not opt for Vong shapers. Then she'd have no boarding craft and be at an unfair advantage as many of her opponents, including Silenceo, would.

Any transport/boarding craft with guns would not be allowed to use them, they wouldn't have them. I said that in the post you just quoted. Unless they have a supplier affiliated with them, then obviously they would get the full package.

EDIT: Understand that pretty much every transport has armament of some kind, so obviously this would be a thing.

Silenceo, as does everyone else, get everything that his suppliers can provide bar capital ships. I don't know why you assume I am making exceptions here, especially considering Silenceo has boarding craft of his own.