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Pulling before the tank


ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
04.21.2014 , 12:03 PM | #11
I see tactical flashpoints as a chance to learn how to play and work as a team so when you get to the other ones you will know what is expected of you. This gives everyone a chance to learn what their role may be in the other flashpoints especially if you have a tank, healer and 2 dps.

If a DPS pulls in some of the hard mode flashpoints before a tank it can and has caused wipes.
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Current Guild Roleplay: A Time for Renewal[ https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...ps/sK3jz376Zu8

tharbison's Avatar


tharbison
04.21.2014 , 12:52 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Kawabonga View Post
I'll be honest... i pull in normal flashpoints as well when i'm on my dps...
Do you disclose your intent when the group starts? Or do you run in one direction to pull a group while the real tank goes in the other and pulls a group? As a healer, those are my favorite!

Kawabonga's Avatar


Kawabonga
04.21.2014 , 01:03 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by tharbison View Post
Do you disclose your intent when the group starts? Or do you run in one direction to pull a group while the real tank goes in the other and pulls a group? As a healer, those are my favorite!
No, i only pull what is strictly necessary :P

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
04.21.2014 , 01:18 PM | #14
I'll admit, I've started pulls in KDY on my dps many times (note that I don't do this in other flashpoints).

I'll go where the group goes, so as not to leave 3 other people on their own, but I generally won't wait for the tank to initiate combat.

Scarlet, I get what you're saying about tactical being a training ground, but I disagree. The reason regular leveling is an ineffective training ground is that things are easy -- there are no significant consequences for the Zerg approach. It's the same thing with KDY.

Something like False Emperor is a much better training ground. The first pull is an excellent example. Don't follow kill order, don't use CC, don't focus target, and the group will have troubles. Of course, some ops-geared players can carry a bad pug through that pull, but it's still better training than KDY

MCaliban's Avatar


MCaliban
04.21.2014 , 01:35 PM | #15
You don't need a tank in a tactical FP. Heck, I had did storymode mandalorian raiders about a week ago with a PUG consisting of a commando, scoundrel, sentinel, and Treek. The commando did most of the pulling.

If you want that aggro then run into a group the DPS has just pulled and use your high threat AOE. Being a tank does not make you the leader, nor does it mean that the DPS has to sit around and wait for you.
Better to be the tail of a dragon than the head of a lizard.

tharbison's Avatar


tharbison
04.21.2014 , 01:37 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Something like False Emperor is a much better training ground... but it's still better training than KDY
I don't think waiting until a level 50 FP to train on FP etiquette is such a good idea! While False Emperor may be a great training ground, if you wait until level 50, your 'bad behaviors' will already be learned.

Halinalle's Avatar


Halinalle
04.21.2014 , 01:54 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by MCaliban View Post
You don't need a tank in a tactical FP. Heck, I had did storymode mandalorian raiders about a week ago with a PUG consisting of a commando, scoundrel, sentinel, and Treek. The commando did most of the pulling.

If you want that aggro then run into a group the DPS has just pulled and use your high threat AOE. Being a tank does not make you the leader, nor does it mean that the DPS has to sit around and wait for you.
If you pull it you tank it.
Tbh, it's quite entertaining to see Marauder tanks dying quickly.
The Progenitor, Legacy Level 50; The Red Eclipse, Legacy Level ??
Tanks: Juggernaut (P), 2x Assassin (P, RE)
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
04.21.2014 , 01:54 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by tharbison View Post
I don't think waiting until a level 50 FP to train on FP etiquette is such a good idea! While False Emperor may be a great training ground, if you wait until level 50, your 'bad behaviors' will already be learned.
Well, speaking from the experiences I had when the Group Finder first appeared (around 1.3) I ran into 3 types of players:

1. Geared toons that already knew what they were doing, and wanted the Black Hole commendations.
2. Players that didn't know what they were doing and were amenable to advice.
3. Players that thought they knew what they were doing, would wreck groups and would ignore advice.

Type 3 is going to have problems to matter what. Trying to enforce "good behavior" in KDY for these players is going to run into a simple stumbling block: They think they already know and don't want to listen to you.

But no matter how many "bad behaviors" the type 2 had, all it took was one or two wipes on the first pull of FE before they'd realize we should work better together as a group.

When someone can chain-pull solo leveling mobs, and go into KDY and chain-pull mobs and succeed, there is no motivation to learn a better way to do it.

Let me give you another example. On Sunday, I brought my level 41 Operative healer into KDY. During trash the group was running around like a chicken with no head. I worked my fingers to the nubs keeping everyone up, but we succeeded. There was no penalty for a lack of planning or strategy.

We got Master Khoris as the end boss and the total group dps output was extremely low. It took so long to kill it made me doubt there was even an enrage timer on that boss. I spent most of my time dpsing, as the group was using the kolto stations. There was no strategy. There was no "tank holds aggro". It was Zerg -> Move -> Zerg -> Knockback -> Zerg -> Repeat.

How is this supposed to help players learn to be a team?

MCaliban's Avatar


MCaliban
04.21.2014 , 02:11 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Halinalle View Post
If you pull it you tank it.
Tbh, it's quite entertaining to see Marauder tanks dying quickly.
The truth is that only healers are team players.

'I see you are struggling, and I could solve this with one button. Instead, I shall stand here and do nothing, or I'll run off and pull a different mob. That will teach you to not do things exactly as I desire.'

DPS just want to kill stuff. Tanks are DPS who want to feel important.
Better to be the tail of a dragon than the head of a lizard.

tharbison's Avatar


tharbison
04.21.2014 , 02:20 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post

3. Players that thought they knew what they were doing, would wreck groups and would ignore advice.

How is this supposed to help players learn to be a team?
These are the players who ultimately will be kicked from the group. THAT is how they will learn! I just hope they learn that before level 50. Otherwise they will have a lonely existence!