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Multi-Night Discussion / Pondering About Armor Ignore

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Multi-Night Discussion / Pondering About Armor Ignore

SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
04.19.2014 , 12:16 PM | #1
So the people I run with and myself have been having an ongoing conversation over multiple nights while we're queing. What the hell is armor penetration REALLY doing? It may seem simple (armor penetration means your shots go through the armor), but we'd all love to know stats. There are a couple REALLY intelligent math peoples, and I'd love for them to be able to work out numbers to explain to those of us who failed math spectacularly... multiple times. Anyways, here's the breakdown of the question.

1. Armor is for damage reduction, right? So how much damage reduction am I losing between lightweight and reinforced armor?
2. How much stock armor does a SF / Bomber / GS have? (I don't think it explicitly states)
3. Not all ships have armor - does armor penetration do nothing to them then (seems like an obvious yes, but trust and verify)
4. Does armor have any additional effects that aren't outlined clearly, like engine consumption rates or something?

Just looking for answers - I know implementing a new game / patches requires most of your attention, but we as players (at least the ones I talk to) aren't exactly certain as to what's going on. We've tried to develop formulas for how the damage in the game works, but we really need the information to be available as to how much of an impact armor plays to optimize builds / strategies. If a dev could clarify on this, it'd be a big help
Renegade-One / Leggogurl / Aimbot / Even'ess / Status

Morgrid's Avatar


Morgrid
04.19.2014 , 12:27 PM | #2
Armor pen ignores all damage reduction effect.

Bombers have 10% DR, Strikes have 5%, Scouts have nil.

Not sure about Gunships.

Target has no damage reduction? It does nothing.
Darth ImperÓus of The Ebon Hawk.

Galactic Champion of "Chase the Bomber"

SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
04.19.2014 , 12:37 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Morgrid View Post
Armor pen ignores all damage reduction effect.

Bombers have 10% DR, Strikes have 5%, Scouts have nil.

Not sure about Gunships.

Target has no damage reduction? It does nothing.
Thanks for the answers Imperius! BTW, fun flying against ya yesterday. Do you know how much armor is sacrificed by adjusting which one you use, or are they just inherent values that'll remain applied regardless of how your ship is built (seems like evasion builds should sacrifice armor, but what do I know).
Renegade-One / Leggogurl / Aimbot / Even'ess / Status

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
04.19.2014 , 12:38 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by SammyGStatus View Post
Thanks for the answers Imperius! BTW, fun flying against ya yesterday. Do you know how much armor is sacrificed by adjusting which one you use, or are they just inherent values that'll remain applied regardless of how your ship is built (seems like evasion builds should sacrifice armor, but what do I know).
I'm not sure I understand you clearly. What do you mean by sacrificed ?
If you're talking about the amount of DR it would give if taken, it's 20% if I recall correctly.

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
04.19.2014 , 01:07 PM | #5
Armor (damage reduction) comes from five sources: inherent (10% for bombers, 5% for strikes and gunships, 0% for scouts), deflection armor (up to 20%), crew (9%), and the Charged Plating and Nullify abilities (60% and 30%). These all stack additively; a bomber with mastered deflection armor and the appropriate crew member has 39% damage reduction.

Incidentally, evasion works identically, with the exception of Distortion Field and Running Interference in place of Charged Plating and Nullify.

Hull damage is reduced by damage reduction. Shield damage is not. For example, if the above bomber lost all its shields and would to take a T3 BLC to the face for 700 damage, he would only take 427 damage after damage reduction. If his shields were up, he would take the full 700 damage.

Armor penetration (inherent on certain weapons, available as upgrades to others) means the target's damage reduction is reduced to 0 against that weapon. If the BLCs in the above example were upgraded to t4 armor penetration, the bomber would take the full 700 damage regardless of his shields.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
04.19.2014 , 01:37 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
Armor (damage reduction) comes from five sources: inherent (10% for bombers, 5% for strikes and gunships, 0% for scouts), deflection armor (up to 20%), crew (9%), and the Charged Plating and Nullify abilities (60% and 30%). These all stack additively; a bomber with mastered deflection armor and the appropriate crew member has 39% damage reduction.

Incidentally, evasion works identically, with the exception of Distortion Field and Running Interference in place of Charged Plating and Nullify.

Hull damage is reduced by damage reduction. Shield damage is not. For example, if the above bomber lost all its shields and would to take a T3 BLC to the face for 700 damage, he would only take 427 damage after damage reduction. If his shields were up, he would take the full 700 damage.

Armor penetration (inherent on certain weapons, available as upgrades to others) means the target's damage reduction is reduced to 0 against that weapon. If the BLCs in the above example were upgraded to t4 armor penetration, the bomber would take the full 700 damage regardless of his shields.
So charged plating and lightweight armor both reduce damage the same amount (before upgrades)?

Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
I'm not sure I understand you clearly. What do you mean by sacrificed ?
If you're talking about the amount of DR it would give if taken, it's 20% if I recall correctly.
Armond got it - how much damage reduction would you lose if you were running a strike build with evasion instead of charged plating
Renegade-One / Leggogurl / Aimbot / Even'ess / Status

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
04.19.2014 , 01:53 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by SammyGStatus View Post
So charged plating and lightweight armor both reduce damage the same amount (before upgrades)?
Charged plating and lightweight armor have nothing to do with each other. Charged plating reduces hull damage you take by 60% while the cooldown is up (and since the component comes with inherent shield bleedthrough, you'll always be taking hull damage when something hits you). Lightweight armor is a chance for you to not get hit when you would otherwise get hit.

If you wanted to run a Pike/Quell build with charged plating, you could get up to 34% passive armor, and bump that up to 94% with charged plating up. Once you got charged plating to t2, 20% of all shield damage you took would go through to hull (as though every weapon used against you had 20% shield piercing).

Assuming you were never hit by a weapon with armor penetration or shield piercing, you would take 13.2% less damage with Charged Plating down, and 18.8% with it up. Obviously, you would take less damage from weapons with more shield penetration, and more damage from weapons with armor penetration. You'd want to time charged plating to go up when you're going to get hit by weapons with shield piercing, such as slugs, seismics, and concs.

If you built for evasion instead, the most you could get would be 14% (9% from armor, 5% from crew). That's not 14% less damage taken (except over a very long time frame against an unrealistic combination of weapons) -- that's a 14% chance for an individual shot to miss. It will do nothing against lock-on weapons and is unlikely to save you from death by slug when your hull is moderately low but your shields are full. Further, because evasion is stronger the more of it you have, you won't get the kind of durability you're used to seeing on scouts (that baseline 10% is big). On the other hand, it will prevent damage to your shields.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
04.19.2014 , 02:02 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
Charged plating and lightweight armor have nothing to do with each other. Charged plating reduces hull damage you take by 60% while the cooldown is up (and since the component comes with inherent shield bleedthrough, you'll always be taking hull damage when something hits you). Lightweight armor is a chance for you to not get hit when you would otherwise get hit.

If you wanted to run a Pike/Quell build with charged plating, you could get up to 34% passive armor, and bump that up to 94% with charged plating up. Once you got charged plating to t2, 20% of all shield damage you took would go through to hull (as though every weapon used against you had 20% shield piercing).

Assuming you were never hit by a weapon with armor penetration or shield piercing, you would take 13.2% less damage with Charged Plating down, and 18.8% with it up. Obviously, you would take less damage from weapons with more shield penetration, and more damage from weapons with armor penetration. You'd want to time charged plating to go up when you're going to get hit by weapons with shield piercing, such as slugs, seismics, and concs.

If you built for evasion instead, the most you could get would be 14% (9% from armor, 5% from crew). That's not 14% less damage taken (except over a very long time frame against an unrealistic combination of weapons) -- that's a 14% chance for an individual shot to miss. It will do nothing against lock-on weapons and is unlikely to save you from death by slug when your hull is moderately low but your shields are full. Further, because evasion is stronger the more of it you have, you won't get the kind of durability you're used to seeing on scouts (that baseline 10% is big). On the other hand, it will prevent damage to your shields.
Thanks dude - definitely come into TS with us again and explain what you just wrote to everybody please - I'm sure they'd be happy to hear about something that actually makes sense
Renegade-One / Leggogurl / Aimbot / Even'ess / Status

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
04.19.2014 , 02:04 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by SammyGStatus View Post
Thanks dude - definitely come into TS with us again and explain what you just wrote to everybody please - I'm sure they'd be happy to hear about something that actually makes sense
Schedules are hard and I have an essay to write. When do you usually fly?
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
04.19.2014 , 03:12 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
If you built for evasion instead, the most you could get would be 14% (9% from armor, 5% from crew). That's not 14% less damage taken (except over a very long time frame against an unrealistic combination of weapons) -- that's a 14% chance for an individual shot to miss. It will do nothing against lock-on weapons and is unlikely to save you from death by slug when your hull is moderately low but your shields are full. Further, because evasion is stronger the more of it you have, you won't get the kind of durability you're used to seeing on scouts (that baseline 10% is big). On the other hand, it will prevent damage to your shields.
But do not forget that most weapons that are not missiles are inherently inaccurate and tend to worsen with tracking penalties.

As the result, it's like if anyone had a much higher base evasion, and every point of extra evasion tend to have much more impressive results that stat sheets imply.