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Galactic Starfighter Records (2.7+)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Galactic Starfighter Records (2.7+)

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
04.21.2014 , 02:20 AM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
stuff... map/territory reference...

Anyway, I actually think this whole thread is mostly pointless. It's actually one of my least favorite parts about any game like this- if the scoreboard isn't meaningful, the players chasing it start to think wrong thoughts about the game.
This. The game simply does not collect the statistics that can appropriately measure good play. ceteris paribus, more of any of these stats is better, but ceteris is never paribus and in practice at high levels of play the total derivative of them with respect to play quality is negative.

That + at high levels of play the statistics are almost entirely a function of your opponents' (lack of) skill.

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
04.21.2014 , 08:16 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
I will also agree that dps is the most meaningless metastat you could possibly come up with.


The. Absolute. Worst.


And it's got a lot of competition with the nonsense metrics that show up around here.


DPS is meaningless because it doesn't really map to success in any way- it simply means you were in a target rich environment, full stop. Damage isn't "inflated" in a long game- that's simply the damage that happened. It's not a pve boss on world of logs or whatever.


Kill + Assist over Death isn't a bad metric. Another metric that is very valuable is % total damage (aka, what percent of the damage your team dealt were you responsible for). Even these stats greatly devalue really important roles, but without the ability to queue rated or whatever many of the most important things just won't show up.


My biggest problem here is the map is not the territory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2%...itory_relation

"Korzybski held that many people do confuse maps with territories, that is, confuse models of reality with reality itself."


If you have a meter, people will game the meter. Trying for dps, then you want the shortest game possible (and since you are queueing with other goods, you'll of course have a short game, and then you'll favor the metric over total damage, which you can't compete in versus in a real game). Trying for total damage and you'll leave them a node and try to milk their spawn. Try for K/D and you will hump killing blows, falling on low health targets like starving hyenas.

Which of these actually show your ability to perform against a resisting opponent? This is all just epeen stroking, it's being able to break a board with a kick and pretending that this is like rating your ability to win in a fight. Essentially no relation.

If your map- your meter- is broken, then you'll go confused into the territory. If you confuse the meter for reality, you might find yourself building a ship or defending a build whose only purpose is to "win more", versus "to win" ("winning more" is something that helps you a lot when you already can't possibly lose, but won't help turn the tide for you if the outcome is uncertain). You'll love a build that lets you farm noobs versus a build that lets you win games, because those two things aren't really that related.



It'll also get you asking for nerfs or buffs based on meaningless drivel.


Anyway, I actually think this whole thread is mostly pointless. It's actually one of my least favorite parts about any game like this- if the scoreboard isn't meaningful, the players chasing it start to think wrong thoughts about the game.



Now, when you see the scoreboard and some guy does 80k, the next 50k, the next 20k, then several in the teens, you can make some generalizations. The guy with the 50k is definitely better than the dudes in the teens, etc. But you can't tell much more than that.

Even K/D can be blown up. Ex: your ship is injured and at C with no engine or ammo. Your buddy calls inc A. It could be better to crash, spawn at A. But that would hurt your K/D....



I've seen bombers on my server hide in little holes and brag about their K/D ratio. What happens is, they lose a bunch of games by being useless, but occasionally some noobsicle come sniffing around and he kills the noob. Since he's not a meaningful target and is actually avoiding the rest of the gameplay, he's worth less than a two shipper who charges around on a blackbolt, but he thinks he's the king of the world- because his map is "kills over deaths".
The same could be said with ground PvP. If you get a balanced and stalemated Voidstar, of course the numbers are going to be inflated. But if that happens, and it so happens to be some incredible heals or damage, your not going to take credit for it simply because it was stalemated?

Of course some of these are going to be skewed in someway or another, I'm not denying that. But there are matches where they actually ARE fair, and those ones should be the ones worth mentioning. I'm not a fan of completely destroying new people in space pvp, and most of the aces on Begeren know that. I almost refuse to fly with a group of aces. Maybe if we can balance it in an ops group, and get just pub v pub matches (what I normally fly) then sure I'll be game. At least this will take just as much coordination as skill to prevail over the opposing teams.

Take a look at this: This is my best game I believe I've ever had. Notice how we actually lost, and how close it was to a win. At 49-49, me and Imp's Lysohi, found each other at the very end, and we decided to have at it. And he beat me fair and square. THAT is what I call a real match. And everything seems to add up quite well. Dps is 160 ish, total damage surpassing 130k, with a k/d ratio of 7. But regardless of stats, this was also one of the most fun matches I've ever had. I really wish I had recorded this one, but even though some of the Imps' damage scores seem low, they were coordinated enough to keep missile tone on me most of the time. So between LOSing these people and the GS that were sniping me, it was incredibly difficult to pull this off. This is why I felt so proud of this match.

Sure I get that not everyone plays fairly, but if they want to fill their epeen, go right ahead. If it's a rape fest, and the person got whatever record they wanted, that's good for them. It won't show their skill, at least in my eyes. If they want something worth talking about, then post a match with an incredibly close finish, against some of the aces on their server. THAT will astound me. And if people wan't brag about their K/D ratio... that's their problem.

Though some of your points are true, a good % of your comment is opinionated, and not everyone is going to settle with what you and I have posted.
"These incipients are ours. We claim them as an instrument in our design. Abandon your cull. Grant them Passage." - Vishna
"We will not. We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels Vasudan Spacepope
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
04.21.2014 , 08:19 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
Unfortunately, I personally think you have to keep the records from the two Gametypes completely separate. They're simply not comparable.

I think you could drop Kill Streak though. Heck you could maybe even drop Kills, since a non-solo-Kill isn't all that much different from an Assist. Instead just have Kills + Assists, Solo Kills, Damage, and DPS for the TDM records, and then add Objectives and Medals for Domination.

So the hierarchy would be like this:

-Deathmatch My Team 50 records
--Scout
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills
--Strike
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills
--Gunship
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills
--Bomber
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills

-Deathmatch Time or Other Team 50 records
--Scout
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills
--Strike
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills
--Gunship
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills
--Bomber
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills

-Domination Records
--Scout
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills
---Objectives
---Medals
--Strike
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills
---Objectives
---Medals
--Gunship
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills
---Objectives
---Medals
--Bomber
---Kills + Assists
---Damage
---DPS
---Solo Kills
---Objectives
---Medals
I think what I'll do is I'll keep what I have on the first post of the thread, then use the second one to create the records by ship type. Then people will say what records they wish to take, and provide the correct amount of screenshots. I do like the setup you have posted here, so I'll most likely create something very similar.
"These incipients are ours. We claim them as an instrument in our design. Abandon your cull. Grant them Passage." - Vishna
"We will not. We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels Vasudan Spacepope
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
04.21.2014 , 08:35 AM | #84
You keeping just the top score or still doing top 5? I do think splitting by ship type but only taking top record will lessen the appeal of the exercise.

Anyway, kudos for the effort I like looking at interesting numbers.
http://fractalsponge.net
Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
04.21.2014 , 12:04 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by Fractalsponge View Post
You keeping just the top score or still doing top 5? I do think splitting by ship type but only taking top record will lessen the appeal of the exercise.

Anyway, kudos for the effort I like looking at interesting numbers.
Top 5 for sure.
"These incipients are ours. We claim them as an instrument in our design. Abandon your cull. Grant them Passage." - Vishna
"We will not. We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels Vasudan Spacepope
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
04.22.2014 , 12:26 PM | #86
For TDM, end by timer:

Xi'ao - Mangler - Starhawk Conglomerate - The Shadowlands - 36 kills+assists/46 = 78.2%

For Domination
Xi'ao - Mangler - Starhawk Conglomerate - The Shadowlands - 439 objective points
http://fractalsponge.net
Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

Bereduss's Avatar


Bereduss
04.22.2014 , 01:43 PM | #87
For domination:

Acrimous - Sting - Shadow Hounds - The Shadowlands - 450 objective points
Rakuun Acrimous

The Shadowlands

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
04.23.2014 , 05:16 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Fractalsponge View Post
For TDM, end by timer:

Xi'ao - Mangler - Starhawk Conglomerate - The Shadowlands - 36 kills+assists/46 = 78.2%

For Domination
Xi'ao - Mangler - Starhawk Conglomerate - The Shadowlands - 439 objective points
You already have a record for the K+A slots, so I will not add this one. (Basing this record slot by percentage) But your objective points did go up.
"These incipients are ours. We claim them as an instrument in our design. Abandon your cull. Grant them Passage." - Vishna
"We will not. We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels Vasudan Spacepope
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony

Jamus_Divinus's Avatar


Jamus_Divinus
04.24.2014 , 07:08 AM | #89
Deathmatch DPS

Jamus Divinus - Warcarrier - Spirit of Vengeance - The Red Eclipse - 144.47 dps
Star Wars Galaxies - Bria Server - April 2005- December 2011
200,000,000+ Mounts:192/206 Pets:170/178
Achievement points:26700 Ships mastered: 21/24

Urien's Avatar


Urien
04.24.2014 , 11:35 AM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by Camelpockets View Post
Take a look at this: This is my best game I believe I've ever had. Notice how we actually lost, and how close it was to a win. At 49-49, me and Imp's Lysohi, found each other at the very end, and we decided to have at it. And he beat me fair and square. THAT is what I call a real match. And everything seems to add up quite well. Dps is 160 ish, total damage surpassing 130k, with a k/d ratio of 7. But regardless of stats, this was also one of the most fun matches I've ever had. I really wish I had recorded this one, but even though some of the Imps' damage scores seem low, they were coordinated enough to keep missile tone on me most of the time. So between LOSing these people and the GS that were sniping me, it was incredibly difficult to pull this off. This is why I felt so proud of this match.
Just had a match exactly like this myself, and you're absolutely right!

Queuing solo, pretty sure I was the only "Ace" (note the quotation marks) on our team alongside a lot of two-shippers, while the other team had a couple of experienced Bombers and Gunships along with a bunch of Strikes and Scout who seemed like they really knew how to co-ordinate and focus fire -- and most of the time, it was focused on me. Had 3-6+ people on me nearly constantly, plus a ton of Drones and mine spam to deal with. Close game, we lost in the end, but still managed to pull the personal records I'll post below out of it.

Anyway, it was a fun, difficult match in which I feel proud of my performance under pressure and alone, rather than farming noobs in a premade. Absolutely loved it, regardless of the loss. It's easy to be great against a weak enemy, but rising to the challenge when your back is up against the wall and the odds stacked against you? Well, maybe that's a discussion for the thread about what defines an "Ace" ... ;-)

And that's all this thread is, really: a place to share and check out each other's GGs. As a GSF player starting out, the original thread helped to inspire me to improve my performance and get clues as to how to accomplish that. Some people are needlessly reading way more into it and just using it as a source of argument and debate, because some people just always want to argue and debate. Chill, relax, and just have fun.

Well, on with numbers:

TDM End by Timer
Kessler - FT-6 Pike/Flashfire - First Expeditionary Fleet - The Progenitor - 36/46 Kills & Assists (link)
Kessler - FT-6 Pike/Flashfire - First Expeditionary Fleet - The Progenitor - 31 Kills (link)

TDM Overall
Kessler - FT-6 Pike/Flashfire - First Expeditionary Fleet - The Progenitor - 124,514 Damage (link)
Kessler - FT-6 Pike/Flashfire - First Expeditionary Fleet - The Progenitor - 152.03 DPS (link)
Kessler - FT-6 Pike/Flashfire - First Expeditionary Fleet - The Progenitor - 12 Kill Streak (link)
Kessler - FT-6 Pike/Flashfire - First Expeditionary Fleet - The Progenitor - 13 Solo Kills (link)
Republic Navy Starfighter Corps
- Lt. Zarius KESSLER
Red Squadron Leader, RSS Gav Daragon
First Expeditionary Fleet