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[petition] Stop thinking you know how long it will take to code something

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
[petition] Stop thinking you know how long it will take to code something

Sangrar's Avatar


Sangrar
03.27.2014 , 07:31 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by durhame View Post
Will you DEVS please stop posting as regular customers and just say you suck?..............
so now anyone who states the obvious is a dev?

oh wait...







in all seriousness when people shout about how easy it would be to implement this or that and start making "estimates", it is not like we know everything about the software or programming done to make this game, especially since its not even the actual hero engine but an earlier version of it, so yeah I think the op is yelling about all the people who judge the devs as incompetent or something even though we still do not even know all the aspects of what goes into making the game and programming stuff, it could be actually complicated like they say, who knows.
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Joesixxpack's Avatar


Joesixxpack
03.27.2014 , 09:04 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by KamujinKravshera View Post
Your semester of Java doesn't make you an elite programmer.

Real world development work involves more steps than amateurs often realize.

Feel free to continue to complain about the low quality of the software, just stop pretending you know how long anything takes. You don't.
ITT: Insecure/buttpained IT nerds lash out at reality*.



*Reality: Developers are functionaries who carry out the directives of more strategically aware and enlightened people than themselves; like me.

laiboch's Avatar


laiboch
03.27.2014 , 09:23 PM | #13
Who said anything about doing something in a day?

Most of the things that would actually improve the game (cross server PVE and PVP queues for instance) have been requested almost since launch.

I am fairly confident that it isn't an issue of them not being capable of doing it. It seems to me It would actually involve time and effort where as taking a piece of fugly armor and reskinning it for sale for Cartel Coins is fast and easy and requires next to no effort or time.

I am glad they are putting out a PVE expansion of sorts, and I look forward to the next 8-9 months it takes them to get around to fixing any bugs that have probably been reported since it came up on the test server, but hey that's harsh of me to expect them to fix something or invest some time back into a community that keeps them employed.

Carter_Mathis's Avatar


Carter_Mathis
03.27.2014 , 09:34 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by laiboch View Post
I am fairly confident that it isn't an issue of them not being capable of doing it. It seems to me It would actually involve time and effort where as taking a piece of fugly armor and reskinning it for sale for Cartel Coins is fast and easy and requires next to no effort or time.
Unless your moderate sense of confidence is supported with a Masters degree in Software Design, then you're in about as justified of a position to judge updates in this game as you are to build an airplane.

oneeyedhobbit's Avatar


oneeyedhobbit
03.27.2014 , 09:46 PM | #15
ITT:

Everyone who has taken their university's version of cs 101 pretends they know how to do real dev work.

varietasplus's Avatar


varietasplus
03.28.2014 , 06:50 AM | #16
The question is more complex and should be approached from a different perspective.

Let's assume someone made a calculation indicating that implementing X-server is a bad investment.

What I do not get why they make investment at all to PVP (new warzones, class balance) since there is not much point to it without X-server. The lack of cross-server results in long queue times, lack of matchmaking, premade issues, etc.

It would be easier to simply stop taking care of PVP so that all of us are gone and they could focus all their resources on PVE and Cartel Market.

To sum it up, the question is not if they can do it or why they don't do it, but if they do not intend to do it, why do they care at all about PVP?

TheCrimsonGhost's Avatar


TheCrimsonGhost
03.28.2014 , 07:30 AM | #17
Even among professional developers this is a common. Because you can conceive of a way that you might be able to develop a feature does not mean you understand the complexities involved. This is because you make too many assumptions and miss a lot of details in your idea.

For example feature A where feature A is "only a few lines of code". I have someone on my team that says this about every problem, and it is a shared joke on the team. Ok let's just say that you are right and that you only need four lines of code to actually implement feature A.

Where are you going to place it in the code? Oh I thought the few lines of code could just be inserted in some function. What function, there is no function or event called there, you will need to create post rendering events to do this.

This is a game, so what is the time complexity of A? Can't hang the client or the server.

What data do you need for A? Did you assume a data fairy was going to deliver it to you, the server does not return the data that you need, you'll need to change the server to do so. Changing an entry point on the server is a big deal and needs a lot of testing.

Let's say you didn't need data or server changes and you've laid the groundwork for A. Somehow nothing needed to be added to the code and you only needed actually four lines of code. Oh wait there were a bunch of unit and component tests that were testing the code that you just modified, well now you need to modify all those tests.

Now that you've added many more additional lines of code to ensure that the existing tests don't fail due to your new functionality you need to add the unit and component tests that actually test that the code that you added worked.

I'm assuming most users don't complain about features that they can't see, since you can see it this feature needs to be tested in a more thorough fashion, meaning client testing, maybe even manual tests.

Trust me, this is the tip of the ice berg, usually your "only few lines of code" turns out to be hundreds of lines of code to begin with. It takes many years of experience for devs familiar with the code base just to get their estimates only mostly wrong. If you actually write code for a living then you know what I'm talking about. If you have taken a class or written a few lines of Javascript then you have no idea what it takes to actually ship anything.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
03.28.2014 , 07:49 AM | #18
So are we supposed to assume everything is impossible? We're CONSUMERS. We ask for the **** we WANT, not the **** they want to give us. We KNOW what we want. We ask for things we see in other games who have developers able to code crap these guys seem incapable of (cross server). We also ask for things we KNOW they're capable of (more warzones). They have them in the game so it's reasonable to assume they know how the **** to program those doesn't it?

Customers don't need to be able to code crap to know what they want and tell Bioware how long they'll wait for it. That's called FEEDBACK.

Stop pretending like coding is such a difficult job...it's NOT! There are plenty of unemployed programmers that'd love the job and accept the challenge. I understand things take time, but this game is 2-1/2 years old...time is running out.
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
03.28.2014 , 07:51 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Joesixxpack View Post
ITT: Insecure/buttpained IT nerds lash out at reality*.



*Reality: Developers are functionaries who carry out the directives of more strategically aware and enlightened people than themselves; like me.
Absolutely right Joe!
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force
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Carter_Mathis's Avatar


Carter_Mathis
03.28.2014 , 09:52 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
So are we supposed to assume everything is impossible? We're CONSUMERS. We ask for the **** we WANT, not the **** they want to give us. We KNOW what we want. We ask for things we see in other games who have developers able to code crap these guys seem incapable of (cross server). We also ask for things we KNOW they're capable of (more warzones). They have them in the game so it's reasonable to assume they know how the **** to program those doesn't it?

Customers don't need to be able to code crap to know what they want and tell Bioware how long they'll wait for it. That's called FEEDBACK.

Stop pretending like coding is such a difficult job...it's NOT! There are plenty of unemployed programmers that'd love the job and accept the challenge. I understand things take time, but this game is 2-1/2 years old...time is running out.
No, consumer are able to ask for what they want. However, they are not able to throw a fit and pretend their requests are as simple as they have deluded themselves to believe. At that point, they have an unjustified anger spawned from ignorance.