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Palpatine's Death.


jaytdasme's Avatar


jaytdasme
03.13.2014 , 01:19 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
There are several things you need to understand however.

The limitations of cinematography at the time: Lucas originally wanted Sidious to fight in ROTJ, but the limitations of the time didn't allow him. So we had to what for ROTS before we saw that. Likewise the limitations of the time meant that we couldn't see a spectacular CGI endowed ending for the Sith Lord, simply because they couldn't do it.

The sense of gravitas: here is an interesting quote from Lucas, "It's just a couple of guys banging sticks against each other. Don't worry about that. It is bigger because of what is going on in their heads. That is what makes it bigger." And he's right, and its in part what made the Prequel duels not quite as good, because they all too often traded flashy CGI for substance. I feel the same can be said here and for your suggestions, the gravitas would be lost.
Yes this is point i agree with most and already brought up. Based on the technology, date, the film time and the budget they had to cut a lot of corners. So yes, for the period for which it air a lot of what took place then seemed appropriated and well executed. But by today's standards, and background knowledge, this scene was weak. I think some of us are clinging to nostalgia lol.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
It works because its fast and it takes hold of the epicness of the moment, there is nothing to distract you from what is really going on here i.e. Vader being redeemed and fulfilling the Prophecy of the Chosen One, he picks him up and he throws him down. What makes it spectacular is what is going on in their heads, not what is visually happening.

Which is why you found it lackluster while searching for eye-candy. I expect if, or rather when, you watched the entire film for the first time you found that scene far more fulfilling. If you did not, then all I can say is that you have been conditioned by recent cinema to not appreciate this kind of cinematography, which is a shame.
So basically i didn't like it because i lack imagination and the "substance" i'm looking for was more subtle yet prevalent than blunt and apparent? possibly i guess...
Quote: Originally Posted by Fyurii View Post
Lucas screwed about enough with that scene already with the entirely pointless addition of another "nooooooo" for the Blu-Ray release.
.
Ugh love the "nooooo's" in movies... they are often comically overly dramatic. Particularly Vaders.. i have the Nooo button app on my phone for laughs XD
“Do or do not. There is no try.”

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.13.2014 , 01:28 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by jaytdasme View Post
Yes this is point i agree with most and already brought up. Based on the technology, date, the film time and the budget they had to cut a lot of corners. So yes, for the period for which it air a lot of what took place then seemed appropriated and well executed. But by today's standards, and background knowledge, this scene was weak. I think some of us are clinging to nostalgia lol.
Evoking "today's standards" is hardly a platform for argument, in many respects today's standards are more base and vulgar than they were before, and this is coming from someone who grew up among these standards. We put too much emphasis on visual quality and are all to often prepared to dispense with everything else in favour of that.

Transformers, Iron Man, Avengers etc. are good examples of this.

For me there is something of the Original Trilogy lacking in the Prequels, too much eye-candy over substance.
Quote: Originally Posted by jaytdasme View Post
So basically i didn't like it because i lack imagination and the "substance" i'm looking for was more subtle yet prevalent than blunt and apparent? possibly i guess...
I'm not about to make broad assumptions about your character, but yes the substance your looking for is more subtle yet prevalent as opposed to blunt and apparent. I can assure you the changes you suggest would degrade the scene.

EDIT: In the end though, it is a matter of taste. But I simply find this mode far more satisfying and timeless to be honest, its not supported by CGI or any other special effects, so it can never become dated.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
03.13.2014 , 01:38 PM | #43
Considering that Palpatine had become so powerful that no one could actually defeat him straight up (until you get to Dark Empire Luke), the death was rather fitting.
Added Chapter 60 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
03.13.2014 , 01:45 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
There are some factors to consider as to why it was rather easy for Vader.

1. Palps was completely focused on torturing/killing Luke.

2. He thought Vader couldn't be turned from the darkside, so he had no reason to think that Vader was gonna turn against him.
not only this but remember Vader was never this desperate before. Vader was incredlibly powerful, but not strong enough to assuredly take his master with out costing his own life in the process. And Palps knew it. This was the first time in Vader's life where it didn't matter if he made it out alive. He sacrificed himself for his son it was an act of desperation that likely only Vader could have pulled off and one know one would have ever thought he would do.

jaytdasme's Avatar


jaytdasme
03.13.2014 , 02:10 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Evoking "today's standards" is hardly a platform for argument, in many respects today's standards are more base and vulgar than they were before, and this is coming from someone who grew up among these standards. We put too much emphasis on visual quality and are all to often prepared to dispense with everything else in favor of that.
True, but that's besides the point I'm making. Even i had no knowledge of the film but read everything up until that scene in a novel i'd probably go "..what?.. -_- " no matter how well illustrated and detailed. I think Scar (and Mufasa) in the Lion King had a way better yet very similar end. lol pardon me for bringing up Disney cartoons but gotta give credit where it's due.


Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
EDIT: In the end though, it is a matter of taste. But I simply find this mode far more satisfying and timeless to be honest, its not supported by CGI or any other special effects, so it can never become dated.
^^ this. To each his own .. i was born 88' so i'm probably spoiled.
“Do or do not. There is no try.”

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.13.2014 , 02:29 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by jaytdasme View Post
True, but that's besides the point I'm making. Even i had no knowledge of the film but read everything up until that scene in a novel i'd probably go "..what?.. -_- " no matter how well illustrated and detailed. I think Scar (and Mufasa) in the Lion King had a way better yet very similar end. lol pardon me for bringing up Disney cartoons but gotta give credit where it's due.

^^ this. To each his own .. i was born 88' so i'm probably spoiled.
Well it is a matter of taste I suppose, I agree that there is something to be said about the most powerful Sith Lord in the galaxy being tossed down a chute but at the same time I feel the non-visual aspects of that scene were executed perfectly so that I honestly didn't care. But is doesn't work vice versa so well I feel.

P.S. Among my generation Disney is literally the new cool, praise Disney with pride my friend.

Falcon_Runner's Avatar


Falcon_Runner
03.14.2014 , 12:43 PM | #47
Palpetines strength was in his ability to manipulate people and prey on their fears and bend them to his will. When Luke tossed his lightsaber and refused to finish his father he defeated the emperor right then and there. It was that act that prompted Vader to save his son and redeem himself. He was always physically stronger then Sidious but Sidious had total " mental" control/manipulation of him.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.14.2014 , 01:18 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
not only this but remember Vader was never this desperate before. Vader was incredlibly powerful, but not strong enough to assuredly take his master with out costing his own life in the process. And Palps knew it. This was the first time in Vader's life where it didn't matter if he made it out alive. He sacrificed himself for his son it was an act of desperation that likely only Vader could have pulled off and one know one would have ever thought he would do.
Well...technically if we take into account the Will of The Force, given that Anakin/Vader is the Chosen One and thus mandated by The Force to kill Sidious, it would happen. How it would happen doesn't matter, so even if Vader decided to confront Sidious despite the fact the latter is leagues above Vader, somehow Sidious would end up dead as foretold, though Vader would probably end up dead too.

But I mean if we take all that prophecy stuff out of it all, then yeah that was pretty much Vader's only shot.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Trixdope's Avatar


Trixdope
03.15.2014 , 07:47 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Considering that Palpatine had become so powerful that no one could actually defeat him straight up (until you get to Dark Empire Luke), the death was rather fitting.
Just like palp couldn't beat his master straight up? Lol just sayin

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
03.15.2014 , 09:21 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Trixdope View Post
Just like palp couldn't beat his master straight up? Lol just sayin
You've read the novel, right? You'd want to make sure the guy was dead, too, if you knew what he did to his assassins.

Besides, it's called risk management.
Added Chapter 60 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus