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Hats off to the aces!


Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
01.05.2014 , 04:25 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by DroidDreamer View Post
Many of the "top" players on my server frequently top the damage/kill counts but have ZERO defense medals in a game that requires capturing and holding nodes.
You're right, this is not how you're "supposed" to play a node-based game.

However, let me point this out: if your best player gets 31 kills with zero deaths, that's 31 times he's sending someone back to the capital ship and forcing them to both wait on the respawn timer and fly back to a node. That's a lot of time they're not spending on the point.

Further, defense medals give zero requisition. Kills on the node seem to give a lot, and being part of a team capturing a node gives a couple hundred. Generally, if I'm part of a premade, once I've gotten my first cap of the game, I run around grabbing kills for requisition. If we lose a node, well, who cares? I can always just boost over there and take it back for more requisition. I'm not rewarded for defending the node, and a lot of the time I'm not likely to lose the match (or even the node) anyway.

And, frankly, sitting around circling a satellite on my own for half the match is boring.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

DroidDreamer's Avatar


DroidDreamer
01.05.2014 , 05:05 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
You're right, this is not how you're "supposed" to play a node-based game.

However, let me point this out: if your best player gets 31 kills with zero deaths, that's 31 times he's sending someone back to the capital ship and forcing them to both wait on the respawn timer and fly back to a node. That's a lot of time they're not spending on the point.

Further, defense medals give zero requisition. Kills on the node seem to give a lot, and being part of a team capturing a node gives a couple hundred. Generally, if I'm part of a premade, once I've gotten my first cap of the game, I run around grabbing kills for requisition. If we lose a node, well, who cares? I can always just boost over there and take it back for more requisition. I'm not rewarded for defending the node, and a lot of the time I'm not likely to lose the match (or even the node) anyway.

And, frankly, sitting around circling a satellite on my own for half the match is boring.
^ Could not have expressed the attitude better myself. You hear the same sort of talk over in regular Warzones with certain players being "too good" to guard the node. In general (not always, of course), I've found the worst of WZ teamplay in space PvP: nodes left abandoned, fighting off node when the cap distance is very short, chasing kills in the middle of nowhere. That's before you get to inc calls, etc. I'm not saying it's not fun. I am sure it is. But Domination is still objective based play, not a deathmatch. Granted, as you say, if a player has a lot of kills, that helps. But it takes more than that type of player to hold a node. I enjoy it, including defending most of the game. I usually play scout DPS so it's well suited for that. Now I find out defense medals don't give Req. Hope they fix that like they did for Hypergate.
The DroidDreamer Legacy (Pot5 Server)
Eblen 50 Sorc heals | Sodan 50 Sniper | Trilliant 37 Immortal Jugg | Somnis 50 TankSin
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
01.05.2014 , 05:48 PM | #23
Sitting on a node is not good gameplay. While you do get worthless "defense medals" a sort of a consolation prize, you are most helping your team if you are out seizing new nodes, farming people, or in an actual defense location- which is NEVER right on the node. For instance, the ridge spanning C and B is a solid place to perch if you were playing seriously, as you can quickly respond to any inc. The game offers zero rewards, so predictable literally no one talks about this, but having a rotate group ready to defend a node is proper play.


It doesn't take much to to be "too good" to sit on a node. The minor defensive advantages offered by the satellite don't make up for the general loss of defensibility. It's also frustrating that, say, gunships, should NEVER be on the node by any reasonable logic, but the game rewards them for capping just the same (and offers no rewards for cleaning the node of enemies, which is more valuable by far). It's very rare that a gunship should have to be within cap range of a satellite, it is worse for the team in all regards, yet the game rewards it.


But this is the same game where I've seen sages spamming some lifetap ability, then healing themselves, such that they get some healing medal. So this kind of circle jerk is I guess well established amongst the playerbase, I suppose.

renegadeimp's Avatar


renegadeimp
01.05.2014 , 06:02 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Sitting on a node is not good gameplay. While you do get worthless "defense medals" a sort of a consolation prize, you are most helping your team if you are out seizing new nodes, farming people, or in an actual defense location- which is NEVER right on the node. For instance, the ridge spanning C and B is a solid place to perch if you were playing seriously, as you can quickly respond to any inc. The game offers zero rewards, so predictable literally no one talks about this, but having a rotate group ready to defend a node is proper play.


It doesn't take much to to be "too good" to sit on a node. The minor defensive advantages offered by the satellite don't make up for the general loss of defensibility. It's also frustrating that, say, gunships, should NEVER be on the node by any reasonable logic, but the game rewards them for capping just the same (and offers no rewards for cleaning the node of enemies, which is more valuable by far). It's very rare that a gunship should have to be within cap range of a satellite, it is worse for the team in all regards, yet the game rewards it.


But this is the same game where I've seen sages spamming some lifetap ability, then healing themselves, such that they get some healing medal. So this kind of circle jerk is I guess well established amongst the playerbase, I suppose.
Good point, but for max req, sitting at a sat and capping sats give max req.
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Svarthrafn's Avatar


Svarthrafn
01.05.2014 , 06:10 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Sitting on a node is not good gameplay. While you do get worthless "defense medals" a sort of a consolation prize, you are most helping your team if you are out seizing new nodes, farming people, or in an actual defense location- which is NEVER right on the node. For instance, the ridge spanning C and B is a solid place to perch if you were playing seriously, as you can quickly respond to any inc. The game offers zero rewards, so predictable literally no one talks about this, but having a rotate group ready to defend a node is proper play.


It doesn't take much to to be "too good" to sit on a node. The minor defensive advantages offered by the satellite don't make up for the general loss of defensibility. It's also frustrating that, say, gunships, should NEVER be on the node by any reasonable logic, but the game rewards them for capping just the same (and offers no rewards for cleaning the node of enemies, which is more valuable by far). It's very rare that a gunship should have to be within cap range of a satellite, it is worse for the team in all regards, yet the game rewards it.
Depending on your class of ship, it can be the best place to defend the node from. Every incoming ship has to make a straight run right down the pipe. This lets me keep scouts in the center of the reticle for my heavy lasers. With crew member and cooldowns, I can hit scouts even when they pop distortion field. On top of that, the long straight run down gives me plenty of time to lock protons, which since I use the shield and armor piercing mods on my heavies, mean most ships pop before the sat is ever threatened.

Your strategy is absolutely fantastic for a scout or a gunship, but not everybody flies those. Different ships require different strategy to maximize their effectiveness. If I absolutely need to boost over to the nearby sat, I'm basically a barrel roll away from proton range anyways.

Not everybody flies the way you do. Some people are highly successful flying the "wrong" way.

Lymain's Avatar


Lymain
01.05.2014 , 07:11 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by DroidDreamer View Post
You hear the same sort of talk over in regular Warzones with certain players being "too good" to guard the node. In general (not always, of course), I've found the worst of WZ teamplay in space PvP: nodes left abandoned, fighting off node when the cap distance is very short, chasing kills in the middle of nowhere. That's before you get to inc calls, etc. I'm not saying it's not fun. I am sure it is. But Domination is still objective based play, not a deathmatch.
GSF is not a ground war zone, though. Honestly, I get frustrated with people who camp satellites with turrets like they think they're in Alderaan Civil War. As Verain said, you want roamers who can respond quickly based on what they see in the HUD and mini-map instead of node guards.
Xeric - Juggernaut - The Ebon Hawk

DroidDreamer's Avatar


DroidDreamer
01.05.2014 , 07:15 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Sitting on a node is not good gameplay. While you do get worthless "defense medals" a sort of a consolation prize, you are most helping your team if you are out seizing new nodes, farming people, or in an actual defense location- which is NEVER right on the node. For instance, the ridge spanning C and B is a solid place to perch if you were playing seriously, as you can quickly respond to any inc. The game offers zero rewards, so predictable literally no one talks about this, but having a rotate group ready to defend a node is proper play.


It doesn't take much to to be "too good" to sit on a node. The minor defensive advantages offered by the satellite don't make up for the general loss of defensibility. It's also frustrating that, say, gunships, should NEVER be on the node by any reasonable logic, but the game rewards them for capping just the same (and offers no rewards for cleaning the node of enemies, which is more valuable by far). It's very rare that a gunship should have to be within cap range of a satellite, it is worse for the team in all regards, yet the game rewards it.


But this is the same game where I've seen sages spamming some lifetap ability, then healing themselves, such that they get some healing medal. So this kind of circle jerk is I guess well established amongst the playerbase, I suppose.
I've had success holding the node for most of the game. Zoom out with burst DPS and kill guys, then go back to the node. Or call inc and start the dogfight and juking close up to the node while help arrives (if it arrives).

I had a few very close games today, great games actually, that were lossed by 10 to 20 points. A bit more objective-based play -- nothing fancy, just that one guy not leaving the node to be capped by the enemy -- and we would have won. Other examples include fighting just a couple of thousand meters off the node while it gets capped. Like four guys on the node and it gets capped. All you have to do is be near it to block the cap. Work the objectives.

It's frustrating. But then again people chasing their piddly duels in Huttball and off the node in other WZs also gets me. Not "u mad, bro" frustrating, just not as cool of an experience as I'd like.
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DroidDreamer
01.05.2014 , 07:17 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Lymain View Post
GSF is not a ground war zone, though. Honestly, I get frustrated with people who camp satellites with turrets like they think they're in Alderaan Civil War. As Verain said, you want roamers who can respond quickly based on what they see in the HUD and mini-map instead of node guards.
If guarding is passť, what's the ideal strategy? Move in a group from node to node, zerging, and never leaving even one person to hold a node? I'm not questioning, I am asking.
The DroidDreamer Legacy (Pot5 Server)
Eblen 50 Sorc heals | Sodan 50 Sniper | Trilliant 37 Immortal Jugg | Somnis 50 TankSin
They mark me with the lightning bolt in Huttball.

Lymain's Avatar


Lymain
01.05.2014 , 07:34 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by DroidDreamer View Post
If guarding is passť, what's the ideal strategy? Move in a group from node to node, zerging, and never leaving even one person to hold a node? I'm not questioning, I am asking.
The ideal strategy is to have roamers who can rush to defend a satellite when it's under attack and then leave once it's safe. Yes, there's a greater chance that you will lose the satellite than if you had 6 people devoted to doing nothing but defend it, but it's about maximizing your resources.

If you're in the lead and not in danger of losing your other satellite(s), then sure, camp a satellite if you want, but you're going to win in that case no matter what you do.
Xeric - Juggernaut - The Ebon Hawk

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
01.05.2014 , 08:19 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by DroidDreamer View Post
If guarding is passť, what's the ideal strategy? Move in a group from node to node, zerging, and never leaving even one person to hold a node? I'm not questioning, I am asking.
In a match where I have no significant chance of losing, the ideal strategy is the one that gives me the most benefit, whether that be scoreboard epeen, requisition, or bragging rights (i.e. "I killed <skilled gunship player> six times that match, how did you guys do"). Of course, other people may have other goals they consider more fun. I personally always go for top damage.

Otherwise, switching to full shields and erratically circling and diving around the satellite is a perfectly viable strategy. It's even fun, because you get to test your piloting skills - how well you can avoid crashing into the satellite while at funny pitch/yaw/roll angles and how few opportunities you present to your opponents - against a potentially very large number of enemy players. If none of them are especially skilled, you can keep at it for quite a while.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>