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new PvE parsing idea for 2.5...


idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
12.06.2013 , 06:47 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by greg_biochem View Post
I was arguing for the use of 1.5mil HP dummy parses to start with, instead of switching to them later.

I think parses barely over 4 minutes are ridiculously short, but I realize that's a subjective opinion and that most people don't think it gets too ridiculous until parses actually go under 4 minutes (next tier). Yes, a parse on the 1.5mil dummy would be 6.5 - 7 minutes long, but I doubt the next tier of gear would bring that down much below 6 minutes...

However, so many people have uploaded parses against the 1mil HP dummy now, it seems the decision has already been made.
Not exactly. People are uploading (pointlessly, I might add) parses onto the old threads, but both of the ones I follow have stated or at least been considering the creation of a new 2.5 thread. So no, at least as far as I am concerned, the decision has not been made. The parses in the old threads are just people trying to jump the gun and look cool with their big numbers, but really they're relative to 2.5 and nothing before it.

On the topic of the dummy, though, I still think it needs to be a 1.5m dummy. People are putting up 3.9k parses with bounty hunter specs. When people like Beastfury parse carnage, and people like Claimed parse sabo bomb spec, you're going to get 4k parses minimum. Unfortunately, on a 1m HP dummy, a 4000-dps parse is only going to take 250 seconds, which is to say, ten seconds over 4 minutes. If you think the next tier of gear is not going to push that time under 4 minutes, you have another thing coming.

For now and for the future of parsing, we have to standardize it at 1.5m. That's not to say there can't be a separate blitz leaderboard (of 500k and 1m HP dummy parses) but the standard sustained DPS parse measurement must use a 1.5m dummy.
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL 55s: 15 10/10 HM DREAD OPS
ETERNAL WARRIOR CONQUEROR OF THE DREAD FORTRESS
5/5 NiM DF PVP BEST IN SLOT 4/5 NiM DP

Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.06.2013 , 09:05 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardarell_Solo View Post
I know this is not relevant to many fellow parsing fanatics, but most boss fights (at least the interesting ones ;-) are longer than 5 mins...

And none have 100% uptime...what's your point exactly?
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Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.06.2013 , 09:07 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
Not exactly. People are uploading (pointlessly, I might add) parses onto the old threads, but both of the ones I follow have stated or at least been considering the creation of a new 2.5 thread. So no, at least as far as I am concerned, the decision has not been made. The parses in the old threads are just people trying to jump the gun and look cool with their big numbers, but really they're relative to 2.5 and nothing before it.

On the topic of the dummy, though, I still think it needs to be a 1.5m dummy. People are putting up 3.9k parses with bounty hunter specs. When people like Beastfury parse carnage, and people like Claimed parse sabo bomb spec, you're going to get 4k parses minimum. Unfortunately, on a 1m HP dummy, a 4000-dps parse is only going to take 250 seconds, which is to say, ten seconds over 4 minutes. If you think the next tier of gear is not going to push that time under 4 minutes, you have another thing coming.

For now and for the future of parsing, we have to standardize it at 1.5m. That's not to say there can't be a separate blitz leaderboard (of 500k and 1m HP dummy parses) but the standard sustained DPS parse measurement must use a 1.5m dummy.
I tend to agree. Frankly, the whole notion of parsing lately has me uninspired the way it is. I'm just looking for another way, more of an accurate and less of an RNG focused way to deliver a parse. It won't really be worth it for another few weeks anyway, when everyone in the top parses will be in BiS, not just a few who are running 2 alts plus mains every week.
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idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
12.06.2013 , 11:40 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Transmet View Post
And none have 100% uptime...what's your point exactly?
Agreed. Bonecrusher doesn't exist. Foreman crusher doesn't exist. Karagga doesn't exist. Neither does Kephess TFB, nor Thrasher. Nefra also does not exist, neither does Grobthok.
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL 55s: 15 10/10 HM DREAD OPS
ETERNAL WARRIOR CONQUEROR OF THE DREAD FORTRESS
5/5 NiM DF PVP BEST IN SLOT 4/5 NiM DP

Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.07.2013 , 03:13 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
Agreed. Bonecrusher doesn't exist. Foreman crusher doesn't exist. Karagga doesn't exist. Neither does Kephess TFB, nor Thrasher. Nefra also does not exist, neither does Grobthok.
You need to examine what 100% uptime is....
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KTap's Avatar


KTap
12.07.2013 , 04:25 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Transmet View Post
You need to examine what 100% uptime is....
Tyrans can have 100% uptime with a bit of luck

Xenphon's Avatar


Xenphon
12.07.2013 , 04:37 AM | #27
I would say 1.5 million is a tad too long, honestly. 6 - 7 minutes is a bit too much, especially, as already mentioned, people will continously parse to get those nice crits.

You could argue that 1 million may favour burst classes slightly, though. Then again, 1.5 million would probably favour sustained dps classes a bit more, especially those that make no changes in their rotation when execute abilities come into play.

Personally, I'd just have to adjust to whatever's decided, but setting it at 1.5 million will probably dissuade some people to participate due to length.
Xenphon - Marauder - Disciples of Babylon

Conquerer of the Dread Fortress // Gate Crasher

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
12.07.2013 , 05:08 AM | #28
I didn't read everything, so this might have been brought up already. I just wanted to chime in and tell you about the following scenario (This happened to me, when I abused Grim Tooth on Makeb as a 800k trainings dummy pre 2.5. The problem applies to the dummies post-2.5 as well.):
It happened to me that I entered the execute phase of my Grim Tooth parse just after a burst phase, which pushed the dps before the execute phase above average. The execute phase on the other hand was so short, that I didn't have another real burst window (We are talking about an MM Sniper here). This devalued the execute window compared to the pre-30% window in my Grim Tooth parse.
In other words: If the health of the dummy, your dps and your offensive cooldown align badly, parses will give a wrong picture of how your dps behaves pre-30% compared to the execute phase.

This problem can be (partially) avoided by creating two parses, one with 1'000k hp and one with 1'500k hp. If the dps of the two parses differs by a significant amount, you can check whether it was RNG or incompatibility of cooldowns and combat fight.

Just a suggestion.

SamuelAU's Avatar


SamuelAU
12.07.2013 , 07:46 AM | #29
After doing some thinking and some parsing, I have to agree that 1.5 mil health is the best way to go. What it comes down to is if you're complaining about having to parse for 7 minutes, then you clearly don't have enough interest in your class or spec to push yourself and maximize your DPS output.

idnewton has hit the nail on the head really as far as I'm concerned. Even now (with a bit of luck), some people are making a push towards 4k DPS. The next tier of gear will easily push the length of a 1million dummy fight down closer to 4 minutes rather than 5 minutes, which is simply too short.
Gomerik // Lumbridge
<The Ex-Dalborran Elitists>

Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.07.2013 , 07:49 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by KTap View Post
Tyrans can have 100% uptime with a bit of luck
was just gonna say...he's the closest thing in the new content imo
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