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new PvE parsing idea for 2.5...


Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.04.2013 , 08:09 AM | #1
Now that 2.5 has dropped and BW has given us modifications to use for the Operations Dummy we all know and likely not care to admit we have intimacy issues with, I am going to suggest, hopefully with some thoughtful feedback from the parsing community, that we shift the format from the 5 minute criteria that usually requires some careful trimming to one of time (and dps).

All the rules and restrictions apply from the 2.4 game-wide thread with class buffs, stims/adrenals, and even alt speccing out to gain stacks etc, but we agree to base the criteria on the Basic Health Mod for the Dummy which renders it 1 million HP and the Armor Debuff. From there, we beat the hell out of it until it is 'defeated', record the time it took on Torparse and also the dps and post both. I submit the 1 million version because 1.5 million just seems like it'll take too much time and is superfluous to the same goal.

In other words, how fast can you burn down 1 million health from an operations boss and what is the dps that took you there?

This accomplishes a few things:
-removes parse trimming altogether because combat ends the moment the dummy is defeated
-can be used as an overall competition as well as class based
-utilizes the intended strengths of classes with executes (sub 30% buffs and abilities) for more accurate dps charting; we actually get a more realistic number of a boss encounter this way
-convenient for the thread author and the community, so we don't have to have a bunch of fluffy sub-categories ie. i used the armor debuff but not the health one and vice versa
-1 million health is too fast for 5 mins and 1.5 million is likely too long to have any real sustenance (plus, it's just boring)
-is kind of a fresh take on parsing from the 5 minute thing

A post would look sort of like this:
Noire - Lethality Operative 3/7/36
Time: xx:xx:xxx
DPS: YYYY
Links to Torparse and AMR

Anyway, what do you guys think?
NOIRE - Concealment Operative

SUOMY - Madness Assassin

SamuelAU's Avatar


SamuelAU
12.04.2013 , 08:20 AM | #2
I like the idea, and having the armor debuff and health module serves two purposes.
1) You have a standardized measuring stick for DPS, with no class having a distinct advantage other another.
2) You eliminate the ability to trim logs, which often reads an unusually high DPS number if you cut off a few seconds and/or end with a lucky crit.

The only issue with having 1 million health on the dummy is whether torparse is actually going to register how much health the dummy has. I did a few parses yesterday to check out the changes, and in all instances the log measured a touch under 999k damage being done, so somewhere ~1-1.2k damage was lost on the log. Not sure why but thought it's worth mentioning.

TLDR: Yes.
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
12.04.2013 , 08:33 AM | #3
With regards to the 'not as much damage as the dummy has health' part:

In all of my logs, TORParse cut out the final hit that killed the dummy, resulting in anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand less damage done on the final hit, thus robbing me of a few dps. Not a killer issue, and everyone seems to suffer it, but something that might be worth mentioning. It might be prudent to clip the parses from the start of combat to the time the dummy dies, since the dummy dies in the logs before you deal the damage.
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namesaretough's Avatar


namesaretough
12.04.2013 , 08:37 AM | #4
I think something like this is the most sensible way to do it. The 1mil is a tad shorter than the old parses, but the 1.5 is a tad longer, so either way some cool downs are going to be used more or less per class than they were. My favorite part of the "kill the dummy" style is it essentially eliminates the possibility of doctoring parses, or at least makes it much harder.

The dummy also seems to ignore the killing blow as it despawns, so the number will never be exactly the hp of the dummy. However, this should be the same time difference for everyone, so we can still use "time to kill" as an appropriate comparison between parses.
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Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.04.2013 , 08:46 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by namesaretough View Post
I think something like this is the most sensible way to do it. The 1mil is a tad shorter than the old parses, but the 1.5 is a tad longer, so either way some cool downs are going to be used more or less per class than they were. My favorite part of the "kill the dummy" style is it essentially eliminates the possibility of doctoring parses, or at least makes it much harder.

The dummy also seems to ignore the killing blow as it despawns, so the number will never be exactly the hp of the dummy. However, this should be the same time difference for everyone, so we can still use "time to kill" as an appropriate comparison between parses.
Yeah, I'm thinking 1 million HP mod until NiM DF/DP (or w/e the next tier is) gear comes out and switch to the 1.5 million HP accordingly. And yes, it would make doctoring much more difficult to do and much easier to spot.
NOIRE - Concealment Operative

SUOMY - Madness Assassin

ZentheSecond's Avatar


ZentheSecond
12.04.2013 , 10:09 AM | #6
I would be in favor of this for two reasons;
1. It means classes like Assassin/Shadow and pyro PT/Merc can get the full benefit of their talents and abilities (below 30% stuff). Which will give a much better representation of the DPS that they can do.
2. Using the armor debuff on the dummy would also be more reflective of what the classes and players can do in raids. As in this day and age what is the chance an armor debuff will not be present on the Op boss? Pretty slim with all the Jugg/Gaurdian tanks and Gunslingers/Snipers running Ops that weave in their global armor reduction ability into their rotation.

Also, this would take the Dummy Parse Leaderboard to more of just a "Well on the dummy X class does Y Dps but on boss that not the case". Like Assassins, it is said by a few in my guild that they parse horribly on the existing dummy. Well if these changes are used for the Dummy Parse Leaderboard it makes the Leaderboard become more of a realistic display of what a class will be able to do in a boss fight.

greg_biochem's Avatar


greg_biochem
12.04.2013 , 12:10 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Transmet View Post
Yeah, I'm thinking 1 million HP mod until NiM DF/DP (or w/e the next tier is) gear comes out and switch to the 1.5 million HP accordingly. And yes, it would make doctoring much more difficult to do and much easier to spot.
Why not simply start with the 1.5mil mod right now? That would eliminate the need to switch later.

Or was the plan to eventually archive yet another "generation" of DPS leaderboards?
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Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.04.2013 , 01:32 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by greg_biochem View Post
Why not simply start with the 1.5mil mod right now? That would eliminate the need to switch later.

Or was the plan to eventually archive yet another "generation" of DPS leaderboards?
As stated before, 1.5 is too much. The parse would end up being around 7 mins, which is a) redundant in terms of cds. It would add no value and parses would be less.
b) boring
NOIRE - Concealment Operative

SUOMY - Madness Assassin

paowee's Avatar


paowee
12.04.2013 , 02:41 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Transmet View Post
As stated before, 1.5 is too much. The parse would end up being around 7 mins, which is a) redundant in terms of cds. It would add no value and parses would be less.

b) boring
Not to mention people will still want to do "multiple" 1.5 million training dummy fights just to get that one lucky crit parse
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emania's Avatar


emania
12.04.2013 , 02:45 PM | #10
Personally i think it should be up to the player whether to use a 1 million or 1.5 million health dummy.
I did a parse earlier where i killed the dummy in under 5 mins with 1 million hp and don't mind going for 7 mins but others may very well feel different. already some parses go into 7 mins.