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The ranked system is self-destructive; a new PvP system is needed.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The ranked system is self-destructive; a new PvP system is needed.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
11.15.2013 , 12:20 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashuranrx View Post
It seems like your belief is that you want to discourage all the "bads" from participating and only want the "elite" playing.
This!!!

and...
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
Wow, amazing discussion. The problem is most of the ideas presented will finish killing PVP in SWTOR. The only difference is how fast it happens.
THIS!

SWTOR, despite ANYTHING some of you may think, is a CASUAL game. If you're going to punish people for not winning, you'll destroy the pool of possible PvPers. If you so badly want "real competition", form a 4-man group and queue. By making top end gear only available to the winners of any WZ, you will bring about the destruction of PvP in this game.

Instead of trying to insult me for thinking this **** through, maybe think beyond the sheer stupidity of only making the most powerful teams/players more powerful - we've been down that road before in this game and it was destructive as hell to PvP. You NEED to allow players to progress as players, you NEED to encourage participation in activities - why the hell do you think Ops/Fps drop new gear and tokens and crap like that? Every activity yields 'stuff'...it's how MMO designers get players to play different parts of the game.
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

olcraft's Avatar


olcraft
11.15.2013 , 12:36 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
casuals aka bads, can get their fix in normal wz or solo queue. it doesn't need to reward the best gear.

participation (for 99% of "pvpers") is only because of a desire to get the best set of gear. if the best set of gear is only accessible through team ranked, then people are forced to participate in order to get it.

if you can't see this, you are bad and i bid you to stay small
you must be so good at this game that you never ever lose. Do you truly think losers want to lose? Do you truly think all losing teams are made up of casual players who only farm medals and comms? you might've been lucky enough to join one of those elitist pvp guilds which help you get better at pvp. Not everyone is lucky as you! you might've been playing wow for years in your basement to hone your pvp skills. Not everyone is as experienced as you!

Average pvpers like myself can never be able to become one of those top players in the server. why?Because guys like me have never been as fortunate as you people. For us this is our first MMO. We don't have skilled friends from
WOW to form a pro pvp guild.We may play and study hard to compete with you folks. But we don't have experience to win against a truly skilled pvp team from WOW. Besides you elitists only play with your fellow elitist friends anyway. So don't criticize our mediocrity when guys like you haven't done much to help us out. Have fun playing with yourselves.

orryko's Avatar


orryko
11.15.2013 , 12:41 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by olcraft View Post
you must be so good at this game that you never ever lose. Do you truly think losers want to lose? Do you truly think all losing teams are made up of casual players who only farm medals and comms? you might've been lucky enough to join one of those elitist pvp guilds which help you get better at pvp. Not everyone is lucky as you! you might've been playing wow for years in your basement to hone your pvp skills. Not everyone is as experienced as you!

Average pvpers like myself can never be able to become one of those top players in the server. why?Because guys like me have never been as fortunate as you people. For us this is our first MMO. We don't have skilled friends from
WOW to form a pro pvp guild.We may play and study hard to compete with you folks. But we don't have experience to win against a truly skilled pvp team from WOW. Besides you elitists only play with your fellow elitist friends anyway. So don't criticize our mediocrity when guys like you haven't done much to help us out. Have fun playing with yourselves.
cuz guys like you whine on the forums instead of seeking out good players to become better

nice basement analogy btw.

even in lolpve, they don't get rewarded for failing. if they want the best gear, they actually have to down the boss. amazing concept i know. fps, story mode, dailies and whatever give nice gear that casuals can do, or hardcores when they're bored...much like regs and solo queue should be for pvpers

team ranked, aka nightmare raiding, should give the best gear and encourage people to compete against others, but also to individually improve and learn to work as a team.

Stncold's Avatar


Stncold
11.15.2013 , 12:57 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Morde_ View Post
I'd even take it a step further and say you only get ranked comms for winning, to discourage general chat "loser/comm farm groups".
Won't happen because majority of players wouldn't want it, and even then I'm not convinced BW would do it.
Selthia-Guardian
Zarrec- Gunslinger Yorenec-Commando
POT5.
RIP The Fatman

olcraft's Avatar


olcraft
11.15.2013 , 01:44 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
cuz guys like you whine on the forums instead of seeking out good players to become better

nice basement analogy btw.

even in lolpve, they don't get rewarded for failing. if they want the best gear, they actually have to down the boss. amazing concept i know. fps, story mode, dailies and whatever give nice gear that casuals can do, or hardcores when they're bored...much like regs and solo queue should be for pvpers

team ranked, aka nightmare raiding, should give the best gear and encourage people to compete against others, but also to individually improve and learn to work as a team.
You make me laugh. Seeking out good players to become better? Since when blue blooded elitists have time to teach anything to mediocre or above average players? They are too busy growing their pvpness to help out they call "baddies". Besides if their faction sucks, they abandon their faction and switch to other winning faction to farm easy wins anyway. You don't have time nor guts to endure hardships and help your faction grow stronger do you?

You are also stupid to compare pve to pvp. NPCs are predictable and can be easily killed once you figure out how to kill them. PVP environments , however, has many more variables. You react to your enemy's moves instead of planning your moves ahead. What works against a particular player will not work against other players. And if you happen to go against a really skilled pvp team, it becomes nearly impossible to win. Rewarding only the winners will make most average pvpers to quit pvping altogether.

orryko's Avatar


orryko
11.15.2013 , 02:26 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by olcraft View Post
You make me laugh. Seeking out good players to become better? Since when blue blooded elitists have time to teach anything to mediocre or above average players? They are too busy growing their pvpness to help out they call "baddies". Besides if their faction sucks, they abandon their faction and switch to other winning faction to farm easy wins anyway. You don't have time nor guts to endure hardships and help your faction grow stronger do you?

You are also stupid to compare pve to pvp. NPCs are predictable and can be easily killed once you figure out how to kill them. PVP environments , however, has many more variables. You react to your enemy's moves instead of planning your moves ahead. What works against a particular player will not work against other players. And if you happen to go against a really skilled pvp team, it becomes nearly impossible to win. Rewarding only the winners will make most average pvpers to quit pvping altogether.
there's a place for even average pvpers. in wow it was called rival or challenger. did you earn those titles at least?

i help people all the time on pot5 who send me tells or talk to me in mumble (since i'm one of the few people to successfully do 4s on a merc and sorc since pts). i do not respond well to forum whiners, naysayers, or people in general chat on fleet.

while you are right that pvp requires more awareness and decision making, the concept is still the same. rewarding for success, not average play or failure. overcoming obstacles, improving dps, hps, tanking...whatever...in order to defeat what is in front of you. sounds rp...but that's really what pvp is too.

ZNICK's Avatar


ZNICK
11.15.2013 , 03:09 PM | #37
I wish in non-ranked we can CHOOSE to play arena so the guys who need and WANT to improve for ranked can practice without the random WZ's. That, and combining servers would go a long way.

However, there's no perfect solution with such a small playerbase.

Z
You don't stop playing games when you get old... you get old when you stop playing games!

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
11.15.2013 , 04:33 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
cuz guys like you whine on the forums instead of seeking out good players to become better

nice basement analogy btw.

even in lolpve, they don't get rewarded for failing. if they want the best gear, they actually have to down the boss. amazing concept i know. fps, story mode, dailies and whatever give nice gear that casuals can do, or hardcores when they're bored...much like regs and solo queue should be for pvpers

team ranked, aka nightmare raiding, should give the best gear and encourage people to compete against others, but also to individually improve and learn to work as a team
.
This. Dont think it can be said any better.

The massive double standard that exists is awful. Ranked PvP is not a casual playground; that is what Regs are for.
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
11.17.2013 , 07:01 AM | #39
Looks like a lot of PvPers actually want ranked to be exclusive to the hardcore PvPers. If that is the case, then the current system is actually as good as it can get.

Can't complain about the small ranked participants pool, because that is actually how many hardcore PvPers there are. And can't complain about BW not implementing cross-server, because such small pool of players does not warrant the commitment of so much resources. It does not make sense from the business perspective.

In the end, unless PvPers let go of the illusion of self-given grandeur from being competitive hardcore PvPers at SWTOR PvP, we are stuck with the current state of SWTOR PvP.

Odyseus's Avatar


Odyseus
11.17.2013 , 07:43 AM | #40
I agree, the system is self-destructive, however, what you're proposing will do nothing to increase PVP participation. The only thing the Dev's need to do is base your PVP rating on the current system. Your pvp rating should be based on Medals earned while your in WZ's. I would also offer a balanced incentive for winning. Like if you get 25 wins in a week, you get bonus points added to your pvp rating. With this system, even if your team sucks, and you're doing your job, you won't be penalized so severely as you are now in solo ranked Q. From what I've seen everyone tries out the ranked PVP for about a week, once the exploiters, bolster manipulators, and FOTM"s start flooding the Q's, many players will get tired of it and revert back to regular WZ's. That's why the PVP rating should be based on what people like doing best, qeuing regular WZ's. You still have a Q for team ranked, however don't reward them with better gear, just better looking gear, exclusive mounts, pets, and titles. That way everyone wins, and this will keep the WZ ques healthy and rewarding.
Odysseus, SWG server Flurry, Commando, TK/Rifleman, Fencer/Combat Medic.