Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The ranked system is self-destructive; a new PvP system is needed.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The ranked system is self-destructive; a new PvP system is needed.

orryko's Avatar


orryko
11.15.2013 , 11:10 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashuranrx View Post
I agree with this. This is the core philosophy that need to be designed around. Let's face it. This is a game, which for most people it is only one of many means for entertainment to kill time. Majority of participants are casual, so the accessibility to PvP must be easy and simple to encourage pariticpation.

Once we have the participation pool, we can set up competitiness by giving greater rewards for winning. Participation must be etablished before competition can exist.

That is why I propose victor comms as a means of competition while everything else is easily accessible.
casuals aka bads, can get their fix in normal wz or solo queue. it doesn't need to reward the best gear.

participation (for 99% of "pvpers") is only because of a desire to get the best set of gear. if the best set of gear is only accessible through team ranked, then people are forced to participate in order to get it.

if you can't see this, you are bad and i bid you to stay small

vennian's Avatar


vennian
11.15.2013 , 11:11 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
Its pretty easy to sync on your queues so that you get into the same match.
I'm almost certain that deliberate queue syncing - for a system meant for solo queue only - would be a violation of TOS and reportable.

orryko's Avatar


orryko
11.15.2013 , 11:14 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by vennian View Post
I'm almost certain that deliberate queue syncing - for a system meant for solo queue only - would be a violation of TOS and reportable.
every server knows which guilds do this. they dodge 4s and still barely break .500 in solo

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
11.15.2013 , 11:19 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
casuals aka bads, can get their fix in normal wz or solo queue. it doesn't need to reward the best gear.

participation (for 99% of "pvpers") is only because of a desire to get the best set of gear. if the best set of gear is only accessible through team ranked, then people are forced to participate in order to get it.

if you can't see this, you are bad and i bid you to stay small
It seems like your belief is that you want to discourage all the "bads" from participating and only want the "elite" playing.

Bro, why don't you go become a pro-gamer. You can have top competition and make money off it at the same time. Win-win for you. People compete in school and at work in real life already, do you think people will keep playing a game if the game stresses them to compete?

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
11.15.2013 , 11:22 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
i guess you were bad at sports growing up and needed your participation ribbon as well

play an xbox game if you want fun and to feel like a hero

player vs player should always be centered around competition and being the best you can
Xeno you are asking way to much of the average player.
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

Artlu's Avatar


Artlu
11.15.2013 , 11:30 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashuranrx View Post
I don't understand your point. In warzones, faction population does not matter. How is this compare to classic Ilum?
On my server I have have 4 toons on each factions. 2 55 Pubs and 2 55 Imps and 2 lowbies on each side.

I get instant queue pops on my Imps toons because of faction vs faction there is always a match to enter.

On my all Pub toons it takes forever to get a queue pop. There just isn't enough Pubs queued up for WZ and ranked.

DanNV's Avatar


DanNV
11.15.2013 , 11:40 AM | #27
Wow, amazing discussion. The problem is most of the ideas presented will finish killing PVP in SWTOR. The only difference is how fast it happens.

Force everyone into one queue and most people will just stop playing altogether.

Remove ranked comms completely from regular wzs and people will stop trying to get into ranked. This will lead to everyone being back in one queue and most people will stop playing.

Only reward victors, people can't get better gear and lose more so they drop back to regular wzs. Now there won't be enough playing ranked so they'll be back in regular, too. People again get tired of losing all the time and getting nothing and stop playing.

Don't you see the problem with this? Anything that limits who can play will eventually cut the pool to the point that you don't have enough participants to play. You want more people playing and you want them playing in pools where they can learn but at the same time have enough success to keep wanting to play, get gear that lets them move up and get them into better pools over time. All of the above ideas and their permutations do the exact opposite and will kill PVP.

If you want PVP to work, you need to match like with like. So if you have bunch of under-geared people, they need to be matched with other under-geared people. Premades need to be matched with premades. People in top end gear need to be matched with people in top end gear. People who are playing need to actually teach newer people who don't really know what to do. Yes, teaching can be frustrating. It takes time. People may even hear what you are saying but not understand what you are telling them to do, so you have to keep teaching. Eventually it'll sink in for most and they'll get better, get better gear and move up. but the ley is to let people feel successful at what they are doing and let them have fun learning it. Any idea that makes it harder to get in, harder to learn, harder to get better gear is simply going to cut your number of participants and eventually kill PVP. I would hope most of you can actually step back and do the math to see that.

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
11.15.2013 , 11:59 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
If you want PVP to work, you need to match like with like. So if you have bunch of under-geared people, they need to be matched with other under-geared people. Premades need to be matched with premades. People in top end gear need to be matched with people in top end gear. People who are playing need to actually teach newer people who don't really know what to do. Yes, teaching can be frustrating. It takes time. People may even hear what you are saying but not understand what you are telling them to do, so you have to keep teaching. Eventually it'll sink in for most and they'll get better, get better gear and move up. but the ley is to let people feel successful at what they are doing and let them have fun learning it. Any idea that makes it harder to get in, harder to learn, harder to get better gear is simply going to cut your number of participants and eventually kill PVP. I would hope most of you can actually step back and do the math to see that.
Great concept, but can you propose a system that implements this concept? Putting human factors aside such as people teaching each other, can you propose a system that somewhat enforces this concept to a successful extent?

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
11.15.2013 , 12:02 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Artlu View Post
On my server I have have 4 toons on each factions. 2 55 Pubs and 2 55 Imps and 2 lowbies on each side.

I get instant queue pops on my Imps toons because of faction vs faction there is always a match to enter.

On my all Pub toons it takes forever to get a queue pop. There just isn't enough Pubs queued up for WZ and ranked.
If Republic population is so low on your server that Pub toons can't even get WZ pops, then I don't think any changes, or no changes at all, can save your server.

orryko's Avatar


orryko
11.15.2013 , 12:05 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
Wow, amazing discussion. The problem is most of the ideas presented will finish killing PVP in SWTOR. The only difference is how fast it happens.

Force everyone into one queue and most people will just stop playing altogether.

Remove ranked comms completely from regular wzs and people will stop trying to get into ranked. This will lead to everyone being back in one queue and most people will stop playing.

Only reward victors, people can't get better gear and lose more so they drop back to regular wzs. Now there won't be enough playing ranked so they'll be back in regular, too. People again get tired of losing all the time and getting nothing and stop playing.

Don't you see the problem with this? Anything that limits who can play will eventually cut the pool to the point that you don't have enough participants to play. You want more people playing and you want them playing in pools where they can learn but at the same time have enough success to keep wanting to play, get gear that lets them move up and get them into better pools over time. All of the above ideas and their permutations do the exact opposite and will kill PVP.

If you want PVP to work, you need to match like with like. So if you have bunch of under-geared people, they need to be matched with other under-geared people. Premades need to be matched with premades. People in top end gear need to be matched with people in top end gear. People who are playing need to actually teach newer people who don't really know what to do. Yes, teaching can be frustrating. It takes time. People may even hear what you are saying but not understand what you are telling them to do, so you have to keep teaching. Eventually it'll sink in for most and they'll get better, get better gear and move up. but the ley is to let people feel successful at what they are doing and let them have fun learning it. Any idea that makes it harder to get in, harder to learn, harder to get better gear is simply going to cut your number of participants and eventually kill PVP. I would hope most of you can actually step back and do the math to see that.
if they had cross server, you'd be right. the game's population is way too low to support this theory. people are only in regs and solo queue to get the gear. and then once they are top geared, they want to feel like a hero but still barely stand out in regs.

i guarantee you that whatever path you lead the sheep, they will go, whether it's the most fun to them or not. the majority of pvpers would probably like to at least try 4v4, but they know with the low populations, they will have to get stomped by people much better than them. if they knew that they'd have to make teams and queue up just like everyone else, they'd get more even competition with the occasional whooping, just like it is now in regs.

instead, people know they can just stay in regs and solo queue forever and not have to worry about getting better or facing actual competition.