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The ranked system is self-destructive; a new PvP system is needed.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The ranked system is self-destructive; a new PvP system is needed.

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
11.15.2013 , 09:33 AM | #1
Arenas, solo ranked ques, and season 1 have not changed the self-destructive pattern of the current ranked PvP system. Players que for ranked, they get beat by top teams consistently, they get discouraged and stop queing. Then only the top 3 or 4 teams keep on queing and fight each other for a while. Eventually the #3 or #4 teams get sick of losing and getting beat by the same top 2 teams, and they stop queing too. And ranked died down to 2 or 3 teams participating on an occasional basis.

Same destructive pattern exist for solo ranked. People que for ranked, start losing due to bad teammates, afkers, quiters, or whatever other factors, then they stop queing. And solo ranked que died down to a few players queing, which would also eventually die down to nothing when the losers amongst these few get sick of losing and stop queing.

This destructive pattern was seen in the old 8v8 warzone ranked days, and is still apparent in the current ranked arena system. So I am proposing a new PvP system to have more people to participate, since it is obvious that we are not getting cross server que; that is already a dead horse.

Here is the new system I am proposing:
1. One que only, no separating regular que or ranked que. All games in this one que are rated.
2. All games reward one type of warzone comms. In addition, only victors of a game are rewarded with 1 victor comm.
3. PvP gear still have 2 tiers. First tier requires only warzone comm. Second tier requires the first tier, warzone comm, and victor comm. For example, tier 1 weapon requires 1500 WZ comm; tier 2 weapon requires tier 1 weapon, 3500 comm, and 25 victor comm. This means the player has to win at least 25 games to get the tier 2 weapon.
4. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp.

The advantages of this system are:
1. Everyone who PvPs is queing in one que, which allows a large pool to draw from.
2. Everyone is rated. Better players will be more likely to match against better players, which scale competition on both sides better.
3. Everyone can access tier 1 pvp gear easily. But accessing tier 2 pvp gear will require WINNING. Because no winning means no victors comm. And to win, people will be encouraged to improve their skills, to play in pre-mades; and they will be discouraged to give up early or leave warzones.
4. This system also prevents people from farming gear easily. A person can farm all day, but he is not going anywhere if he is not winning to get victor comms.
5. To encourage people to keep on PvPing despite of losing. One PvP daily quest will reward 1 victor comm, and the pvp weekly will reward 3 victor comms.
6. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp. Players canít farm lowbies for easy access to tier 2 pvp gear.

Please comment or propose your own changes to the current PvP system. And please donít beat any dead horses like cross-server que.

TonyDragonflame's Avatar


TonyDragonflame
11.15.2013 , 09:44 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashuranrx View Post
Arenas, solo ranked ques, and season 1 have not changed the self-destructive pattern of the current ranked PvP system. Players que for ranked, they get beat by top teams consistently, they get discouraged and stop queing. Then only the top 3 or 4 teams keep on queing and fight each other for a while. Eventually the #3 or #4 teams get sick of losing and getting beat by the same top 2 teams, and they stop queing too. And ranked died down to 2 or 3 teams participating on an occasional basis.

Same destructive pattern exist for solo ranked. People que for ranked, start losing due to bad teammates, afkers, quiters, or whatever other factors, then they stop queing. And solo ranked que died down to a few players queing, which would also eventually die down to nothing when the losers amongst these few get sick of losing and stop queing.

This destructive pattern was seen in the old 8v8 warzone ranked days, and is still apparent in the current ranked arena system. So I am proposing a new PvP system to have more people to participate, since it is obvious that we are not getting cross server que; that is already a dead horse.

Here is the new system I am proposing:
1. One que only, no separating regular que or ranked que. All games in this one que are rated.
2. All games reward one type of warzone comms. In addition, only victors of a game are rewarded with 1 victor comm.
3. PvP gear still have 2 tiers. First tier requires only warzone comm. Second tier requires the first tier, warzone comm, and victor comm. For example, tier 1 weapon requires 1500 WZ comm; tier 2 weapon requires tier 1 weapon, 3500 comm, and 25 victor comm. This means the player has to win at least 25 games to get the tier 2 weapon.
4. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp.

The advantages of this system are:
1. Everyone who PvPs is queing in one que, which allows a large pool to draw from.
2. Everyone is rated. Better players will be more likely to match against better players, which scale competition on both sides better.
3. Everyone can access tier 1 pvp gear easily. But accessing tier 2 pvp gear will require WINNING. Because no winning means no victors comm. And to win, people will be encouraged to improve their skills, to play in pre-mades; and they will be discouraged to give up early or leave warzones.
4. This system also prevents people from farming gear easily. A person can farm all day, but he is not going anywhere if he is not winning to get victor comms.
5. To encourage people to keep on PvPing despite of losing. One PvP daily quest will reward 1 victor comm, and the pvp weekly will reward 3 victor comms.
6. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp. Players canít farm lowbies for easy access to tier 2 pvp gear.

Please comment or propose your own changes to the current PvP system. And please donít beat any dead horses like cross-server que.
Just only one question.

How underdog faction (Republic) can get Victor commz and high tier gear?

Kkthnxbye.
May the Force be with you!
Vigilance vr 100 | Scrapper vr 91 | Focus vr 91 | Assault vr 88 | Infiltration v 82 | Sharpshooter v 73
Manhunter 110+k killed imps | TRE | ToFN

Cinnagar's Avatar


Cinnagar
11.15.2013 , 09:49 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
Just only one question.

How underdog faction (Republic) can get Victor commz and high tier gear?

Kkthnxbye.
Just transfer to Harbinger where it would take a year before any imp got 25 "victor comms".

Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
11.15.2013 , 10:21 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashuranrx View Post
Arenas, solo ranked ques, and season 1 have not changed the self-destructive pattern of the current ranked PvP system. Players que for ranked, they get beat by top teams consistently, they get discouraged and stop queing. Then only the top 3 or 4 teams keep on queing and fight each other for a while. Eventually the #3 or #4 teams get sick of losing and getting beat by the same top 2 teams, and they stop queing too. And ranked died down to 2 or 3 teams participating on an occasional basis.

Same destructive pattern exist for solo ranked. People que for ranked, start losing due to bad teammates, afkers, quiters, or whatever other factors, then they stop queing. And solo ranked que died down to a few players queing, which would also eventually die down to nothing when the losers amongst these few get sick of losing and stop queing.

This destructive pattern was seen in the old 8v8 warzone ranked days, and is still apparent in the current ranked arena system. So I am proposing a new PvP system to have more people to participate, since it is obvious that we are not getting cross server que; that is already a dead horse.

Here is the new system I am proposing:
1. One que only, no separating regular que or ranked que. All games in this one que are rated.
2. All games reward one type of warzone comms. In addition, only victors of a game are rewarded with 1 victor comm.
3. PvP gear still have 2 tiers. First tier requires only warzone comm. Second tier requires the first tier, warzone comm, and victor comm. For example, tier 1 weapon requires 1500 WZ comm; tier 2 weapon requires tier 1 weapon, 3500 comm, and 25 victor comm. This means the player has to win at least 25 games to get the tier 2 weapon.
4. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp.

The advantages of this system are:
1. Everyone who PvPs is queing in one que, which allows a large pool to draw from.
2. Everyone is rated. Better players will be more likely to match against better players, which scale competition on both sides better.
3. Everyone can access tier 1 pvp gear easily. But accessing tier 2 pvp gear will require WINNING. Because no winning means no victors comm. And to win, people will be encouraged to improve their skills, to play in pre-mades; and they will be discouraged to give up early or leave warzones.
4. This system also prevents people from farming gear easily. A person can farm all day, but he is not going anywhere if he is not winning to get victor comms.
5. To encourage people to keep on PvPing despite of losing. One PvP daily quest will reward 1 victor comm, and the pvp weekly will reward 3 victor comms.
6. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp. Players canít farm lowbies for easy access to tier 2 pvp gear.

Please comment or propose your own changes to the current PvP system. And please donít beat any dead horses like cross-server que.
Looking at this think your changes might be the nail in the coffin to pvp as whole.
The problem is not that people are not queuing for or are not wanting do ranked, the problem is that just there the distribution of skills is different. Forcing people in ranked doesnt let skill difference go away, people will get crush a few times and then they will do something else, just like the destructive mechanics you outlined that are already in existence.

On my server in old 8v8 ranked day we had two good pvp guilds (one of them nostrum dolus) and their skill level was just too high for any new ranked group to match. Basically when you queued you couldnt leave the spam. Thing is, you only get better by learning the coordination and mechanics of ranked by doing them, but if you just get destoryed it is not only not fun, but you dont learn anything. So consequentially ranked was pretty dead on our server.

Then came server transfers, ND and reality check moved to tofn, to have more ranked variety. And guess what happened, suddenly rank gained new life and a lot of new teams formed, not as high level as tofn, but it was actually enjoyable, since most people didnt have that much experience and you could learn the basics and improve, without getting crushed.

Just combining the normal and the ranked queue doesn't let those with more experience and better team work go away (not that i would want them to leave). So the problem just reiterates.

My suggestion would be something different, i would really like to be implemented. Let the teams arrange their matches themselves, so that you both teams a facing the team they wanted to face. Make this independent of rating and rewards and leave ranked in place roughly as it is.

Why?
First I think would just be fun to have guild wise turnerments. You can organize events and just enjoy relaxed pvp.
Second there it is up the players to set their rules and match groups so that it is a faceroll, challenging and possibilities for individual and group wise improvement.
Third excluding this from ratings and comm rewards, makes this not prone to abuse. But it is up to the organizer or the teams whether there some rewards, i.e. two competeting teams my agreed upon the losing team paying some credits to the winning team or stuff like that.
Fourth it keeps a ranked queue in place for those that want to do it, giving the top teams still something to do. My hope would be that those teams that feel they have got reasonable experience in the no rated premade arenas will go ranked to compete with the top teams. this would benefit both ends of the spectrum, since the top teams get more competition and those on the lower end can enjoy organized pvp without getting crushed.
Fifth it would overall give more control to us the players, and that is good thing for an MMO in terms of long term fun. The more you can do and organizes for yourself as a group of players the more fun it is and the longer you play the game.

well, that was just some stuff that went through my head in the last few days. I know won't happen, but nice in theory

orryko's Avatar


orryko
11.15.2013 , 10:26 AM | #5
this is how you fix ranked

solo queue and reg wz reward ZERO ranked comms. a ranked solo queue is dumb when you're praying to the rng gods

no dailies or weeklies for regs which reward ranked comms. no converting wz comms into ranked

ranked comms only come from team arena

people are only doing solo queue now until they get all the gear faster. then they will be back in regs to barely break 300k or whatever it is 99% of you do

that is the only way to increase participation without cross server, but it makes too much sense so bioware won't do it.

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
11.15.2013 , 10:29 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
Just only one question.

How underdog faction (Republic) can get Victor commz and high tier gear?

Kkthnxbye.
PvP daily and weekly. Is it really so bad on your server that Republic have no chance of winning at all?

Morde_'s Avatar


Morde_
11.15.2013 , 10:30 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
this is how you fix ranked

solo queue and reg wz reward ZERO ranked comms. a ranked solo queue is dumb when you're praying to the rng gods

no dailies or weeklies for regs which reward ranked comms. no converting wz comms into ranked

ranked comms only come from team arena

people are only doing solo queue now until they get all the gear faster. then they will be back in regs to barely break 300k or whatever it is 99% of you do

that is the only way to increase participation without cross server, but it makes too much sense so bioware won't do it.
Yeah this. It's the same for PvE progression. The best gear should be awarded for completing the most difficult content.

I'd even take it a step further and say you only get ranked comms for winning, to discourage general chat "loser/comm farm groups".
Scold
Quote: Originally Posted by LegendaryQuan View Post
I will also offer to duel your marauder, for any amount of money
Quote: Originally Posted by LegendaryQuan View Post
i dont have cold feet. im just not going to give away $300 walking into an unwinnable situation.
Biggest welch in Bastion history.
carried by jonie

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
11.15.2013 , 10:31 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
this is how you fix ranked

solo queue and reg wz reward ZERO ranked comms. a ranked solo queue is dumb when you're praying to the rng gods

no dailies or weeklies for regs which reward ranked comms. no converting wz comms into ranked

ranked comms only come from team arena

people are only doing solo queue now until they get all the gear faster. then they will be back in regs to barely break 300k or whatever it is 99% of you do

that is the only way to increase participation without cross server, but it makes too much sense so bioware won't do it.
Nah, then people may even stop PvPing all together. Rewards alone cannot encourage people to participate when the experience of getting beat repeatly discourage them more.

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
11.15.2013 , 10:34 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Morde_ View Post
Yeah this. It's the same for PvE progression. The best gear should be awarded for completing the most difficult content.

I'd even take it a step further and say you only get ranked comms for winning, to discourage general chat "loser/comm farm groups".
While your suggestion is encourages competition, it discourages participation. We want to encourage pariticpation, yet keep competitiveness at the same time. Participation must come first before competition can take place.

orryko's Avatar


orryko
11.15.2013 , 10:35 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashuranrx View Post
Nah, then people may even stop PvPing all together. Rewards alone cannot encourage people to participate when the experience of getting beat repeatly discourage them more.
then they need to focus on getting better, since pvp is supposed to be about competition, not farming gear

there is one team on my server who took around 20 losses against us and now they have the advantage against one of our comps. it is possible

and scold is right, only winning SHOULD be rewarded.