Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Abuse and harassment in pvp community

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Abuse and harassment in pvp community

Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
11.14.2013 , 11:46 AM | #1
Basically created just because an argument in another thread started to go so badly offtopic that I felt it needed an actual topic of its own. Slightly related to Cashogy_reborn's Why is being good at PvP viewed with such a negative connotation? -topic.

We have all seen this, in some form. Maybe it was someone ranting at someone in a warzone because of a mistake he/she did, maybe it was someone just screaming "you are all noobs!!!" when things didn't go as he planned, or maybe it was someone telling you to "get a life" in the forums. I think there's no group in pvp who wouldn't get bashed sometimes, and it's really no wonder that many people of the pve community view pvp players as rude, arrogant people with no manners. Because, let's be honest, it does sometimes look like that.

I think we can all agree that this is not something that will completely go away. Pvp can be very frustrating, and it can even make people very angry. It's just humane that people can't always control their emotions. Saying that people who can't keep their emotions in check shouldn't pvp would at least exclude short-tempered and/or competitive players from pvp altogether. Maybe even everyone who is passionate about pvp.

However, I'm pretty sure this is something most of the people don't enjoy. People can "take it", at least some amount of it, but would be happier if it didn't exist, or really don't care if it exists or not. Maybe some slight percent do actually enjoy it, and that's okay with me. But my basic logics tell me, that they should be a minority. Not many people enjoy being ranted or yelled at, or bullied, or ridiculed, or belittled.

I'd like to ask for the pvp community's opinions on questions like what kind of abuse/harassment should be tolerated and what amount of abuse/harassment should be tolerated - or should it all just be tolerated, because it's "part of the game"? And if some aspect and/or amount of abuse and/or harassment shouldn't be tolerated, what could we do to try to make sure we don't have to tolerate it?

EDIT:// Grabbed a couple of links other people have posted on other threads that are somehow related to the topic: Teamwork is OP (Originally posted by Vennian to the Why not try to help PUGs? -thread) and This video talking about one sort of harassment, even though the video mainly concentrates on harassment in games that have a voice chat (Originally from Wraiven's old topic about the same subject).
There is a face beneath this mask but it's not me.
Red Eclipse - And a few other servers too - The Firslay Legacy

reclipsed's Avatar


reclipsed
11.14.2013 , 12:28 PM | #2
Life is life. As an example, I was in an Arena match on my dps operative. Our opponents had 2 healers, we had none. So I knew it was gonna be iffy. Just as I expected my teammates did not focus fire or cc so we lost. Second round. Same thing, I was the second one to go down so it was 4 vs 2 and the two were attacking different targets.

I decided to just leave the game and continue leveling instead of waiting. One of my teammates pst me calling me a noob and ragequiter and so on. Tried to explain but you just can't communicate with some ppl.

Best advice is just to not even try to explain and ignore. Of course if you're threatened or w/e do the report, but from what I have seen from this and other games, it really does no good.

vennian's Avatar


vennian
11.14.2013 , 12:44 PM | #3
PVP makes temper flare. That's just the way it is. If it didn't, we wouldn't play it

Abuse should not be tolerated, but I understand where it comes from. I hope people speak up when it happens. Always speak up!

Joesixxpack's Avatar


Joesixxpack
11.14.2013 , 02:28 PM | #4
Lemme know when the thread for passive-aggressive freaks that explode when group mates violate their personal OCD needs in scripted fights is up too.

Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
11.14.2013 , 02:52 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by reclipsed View Post
I decided to just leave the game and continue leveling instead of waiting. One of my teammates pst me calling me a noob and ragequiter and so on. Tried to explain but you just can't communicate with some ppl.
I think this is a good example of the kind of "heat of the moment, temperaments flaming"-behaviour. It's easily said and fast forgotten, and then we move on. But reading through the Cashogy's thread gave me the impression that there are some problems deeper than just that heat of the moment that's easily forgotten. There were many comments that basically said, that the dedicated pvp players brought their abuse to themselves. This is not "the heat of the moment" anymore. There's a great load of bitterness in it. And, sadly, these people aren't only ones who carry a sort of negativity with them. Some "dedicated" players seem to carry the same load of bitterness towards "bads", casuals, or both.




Anyway, to continue the conversation between me and ZooMzy (I'm hoping you find your way here on your own):
I think nothing good would come argueing if the "bads", the "casuals" or the "dedicated" are the original source of this conflict. Maybe some "bads" are just stubborn and unwilling to learn, as you say. Maybe they make the other "bads" look bad (and by this I mean the players who are just new to pvp and still willing to learn), and some dedicated players (like you) and maybe even some casuals feel they are right to rage at all the bads.

Some of these "bads" who are just new players are very mature and have great self-esteem, and they understand that not everyone in the top skill level is like the person ranting right now. Some people start carrying bitterness towards the "dedicated" - quite the same way you seem to carry bitterness towards the bads (or the bads and the casuals, depending on what post of yours person is reading). And then they, quite like you, start expressing this bitterness towards all the dedicated. Maybe for reasons like "This is how people do in pvp, and I had to suffer from this abuse. There's no reason the dedicated who abused me shouldn't suffer from it, too". This may even lead to the problem many people are experiencing in pug warzones: the pugs just couldn't care less what the more experienced players have to say, because they view the more experienced players as someone arrogant and rude.

Unfortunately, we won't be able to just "fix the cause". Because, from all these things, the skills and knowledge of the "bads" is the hardest thing to influence. Not because they won't learn, but because every new player starts as "bad". And there will always be new players. While we try to pass our knowledge to the people who aren't that good in the game, we could always at the same time try to at least rant them a little less. And, imo, this would include only ranting because of the "heat of the moment", not because you think the bads deserve it and use your ranting as a weapon. If we intentionally vent off our anger and frustration to the bads, they are more likely come up with the idea that the more experienced players are just arrogant jerks or schoolyard bullies with computers, even though the person ranting would probably be a nice guy when he's not so pissed off.

The next step, of course, would have to be taken by the "bads". They should try to understand, that the dedicated are also just people, just like the bads. And people get frustrated and angry, and when they are frustrated and angry, they aren't always nice to each other. The less "I'm just venting off my frustration but I don't mind if you learn something from this" type of speech they get, more likely they are to think that the dedicated are just frustrated, not actually mean on purpose because they have emotional problems irl or something.

Unfortunately, with the wrong coctail, someone will vent off their frustration on the bads, and the bads - who well become medicore or casuals or maybe dedicated later - think that the dedicated are all mean and full of themselves. Which, of course, bursts out as attacks towards the dedicated. And we both agree that this is something very sad.

It's not something easily changed, either. And, tbh, if you think constantly and intentionally raging to the bads is worth the bad name you are giving to all the dedicated (or even to all the pvp players in the eyes of the other players), then I guess you'll just keep up your work.
There is a face beneath this mask but it's not me.
Red Eclipse - And a few other servers too - The Firslay Legacy

Joesixxpack's Avatar


Joesixxpack
11.14.2013 , 03:00 PM | #6
"Oh, I see. What we got here is a crusader."

- King

Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
11.14.2013 , 03:16 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Joesixxpack View Post
"Oh, I see. What we got here is a crusader."

- King
Guilty as charged. ^^
I had my annual eye-opening from Cashogy's thread. I thought all raging pvp people did was the "better" pvpers raging at the people who are worse at it, but it seems that everyone is raging at each other instead. And I have to say that I feel sorry, not only for the "bads" who got raged, but for dedicated people who get raged, too. Some of them probably haven't done anything to deserve it.

Probably overestimating the community when I'm thinking something could be done about it, though. But it doesn't hurt to try.
There is a face beneath this mask but it's not me.
Red Eclipse - And a few other servers too - The Firslay Legacy

Cryowolf's Avatar


Cryowolf
11.14.2013 , 03:18 PM | #8
This behavior is not limited to pvp, pve, swtor or even videogames. Online anonymity lets people unleash their mean sides with few, if any, repercussions. Grow a thicker skin and ignore the BS. Or just don't even think of the other players as people, just NPCs with varying AI personalities.
Raisins--Scoundrel--The Harbinger

Joesixxpack's Avatar


Joesixxpack
11.14.2013 , 03:25 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
Guilty as charged. ^^
I had my annual eye-opening from Cashogy's thread. I thought all raging pvp people did was the "better" pvpers raging at the people who are worse at it, but it seems that everyone is raging at each other instead. And I have to say that I feel sorry, not only for the "bads" who got raged, but for dedicated people who get raged, too. Some of them probably haven't done anything to deserve it.

Probably overestimating the community when I'm thinking something could be done about it, though. But it doesn't hurt to try.
I wouldn't consider it any indictment of this particular game's community though. Rather, it would be one for humankind.

vennian's Avatar


vennian
11.14.2013 , 03:26 PM | #10
Wow, that link was eyeopening. I did not know about that Cross Assault Tekken girl and the abuse she had to endure. That stream is rough.