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Why not try to help PUGs?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why not try to help PUGs?

deedeede's Avatar


deedeede
11.09.2013 , 08:06 AM | #11
you can not type and fight, if you can predict the enemy team you can win, if a bad pug, you must predict your own team too...
rare are the pugs that reach the chemistry.
dont wait for calls in a pug, check the odds yourself, or you are the bad in the pug

vennian's Avatar


vennian
11.09.2013 , 10:44 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
You have any idea how rare that is? Nine times out of ten the pugs generally just ignore everyone and do their own thing
in pug vs pug matches one of my most used pvp skills is gettting my group to work together via chat. I consider it my personal best pvp skill.

It can be done. If you know how to do it that is :P

georgemattson's Avatar


georgemattson
11.09.2013 , 10:59 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by deedeede View Post
you can not type and fight, if you can predict the enemy team you can win, if a bad pug, you must predict your own team too...
rare are the pugs that reach the chemistry.
dont wait for calls in a pug, check the odds yourself, or you are the bad in the pug
True, you can't type and fight, but it take very little time to "1w" in chat. Four keystrokes that can make a difference between keeping the node and winning the WZ or not, and if you're keeping a close enough lookout on the incoming lanes, you'll have more than enough time for that. I guard pretty consistently and rarely do I not have enough time to send one, two, or sometimes three calls before I'm taken out (if I am, that is; I'm getting better at the 1v1 cap attempt and am about 60/40 in fending those off). If I do have to send out a follow up, it's almost always a single digit ("2" or "3") or occasionally a "zerg w." As an example:

1w
2
zerg w

Clear enough, I would think, and takes very little time.

In any event, though, it's a pretty rare occurrence where I have to decide between dying and sending a warning out; usually 2-3 stealth, with one hitting me at the same time that another player comes out of stealth to cap, but even in such instances, I'll send the warning out while I'm being frozen, then break cc and hit the capper. In a few well-coordinated attacks, there will be a cc immediately following that roots me (usually followed by a quick death on my part), but teams that play that well are usually a no win for a PUG group anyway (as well as being a pre-made, typically). Still, in those instances, I have even more time to send a longer warning.

Of course, that's all with a lvl 15 combat sentinel, where I don't have GBTF and have minimal CDs to use, but that's also the range where I think people are more willing to listen.


Overall, though, I do get the point a lot of folks are making here, and I'm wondering if it might be a better idea to just try to find a pre-made to join. So... new question; how does one go about joining a pre-made, when everyone in your guild is 55 and only interested in raiding?

vennian's Avatar


vennian
11.09.2013 , 11:07 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by georgemattson View Post
I'm wondering if it might be a better idea to just try to find a pre-made to join.
Dont. You're gonna be part of the problem instead of the solution. And It's gonna get boring real quick.

valeita's Avatar


valeita
11.09.2013 , 11:26 AM | #15
the problem is with people that simply don't want to listen. They keep making the same basic mistakes all over again, every single day, after a few times you get that trying to be nice is just pointless.

Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
11.09.2013 , 11:51 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by valeita View Post
the problem is with people that simply don't want to listen. They keep making the same basic mistakes all over again, every single day, after a few times you get that trying to be nice is just pointless.
Coming from the same server as you do, part of this problem is also that it seems to me that sometimes, some people just don't understand english at all. (I'm trying not to look towards the russian players, most of them are competent and understand english, but I have met way too many who - it seems - don't.) It's hard to explain a strategy if part of the team doesn't understand what you're saying.

But I agree with OP, it's always worth trying to come up with a strategy. If the team doesn't listen, well, at least you tried.
There is a face beneath this mask but it's not me.
Red Eclipse - 22 characters - The Firslay Legacy

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
11.09.2013 , 12:42 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by georgemattson View Post
You know... what's funny is that I don't know you from Adam but I can pretty much guarantee you're probably a LOT better than me in PvP, so coming from the point of view of one of those people someone like you could potentially teach in that ten minute time period, I can tell you that some of us do listen. I didn't get better at winning warzones from reading the forums. I got better by listening to people telling me to stay on node, hit the ball carrier, attack the healer, etc. Heck, when I first started, I had no clue who the healers were, had no idea what the target markers meant, and the only thing I knew to do was go attack whoever had the lowest health bar on the other side.

I still suck with my rotation, can't play my class a tenth as well as the typical 12-year old player (I'm 46 and have the reflexes of a 96-year old man), but I do at least know how to play as a team member.

I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of other players like me out there.
I exist with that mentality. I also look inward as often as I can when things don't go right because I realize I am not perfect, nor the best pvper.

See, the pugs that need help generally are not of that mentality. Its always the premade or someone else fault, so they won't accept help. They may even start insulting their team and even if it really is their teams fault, they are doing nothing but throwing gas on the fire.

Now that's out of the way, I was thinking about making a thread on the positives of pugs. Not all are bad, and its important everyone knows that. I often think premade complaints are not even premades at times. Just better puts against bad ones. Have had some matches lately where me and teammates just seem to be on the same page, and that is awesome
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ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
11.09.2013 , 12:53 PM | #18
Sometimes though people have no idea what to do. I don't pvp and I will not based on what I have read and seen in these forums. I tried it once and tried to explain to the person I have no idea what I am supposed to do and let's just say from the behavior and the attitude I received I will not set foot in a pvp area again.

Sometimes if you take the time to try to help someone you may find out they just need some idea what to do and give them some time to learn some things. You don't learn the mechanics of the hard mode flashpoints or operations overnight. It takes practice.

Why do people expect people to know how to pvp when some may have never done it and then we are met with this kind of attitude. Why would we want to even try to learn to do something and maybe try to understand why people want to pvp when we are met with this type of attitude.

I don't know about you but why would I want to play with someone that is constantly yelling or screaming when someone makes a mistake .

If you take the time to help you may find you have taught someone something that they didn't know but most don't want to . They prefer yelling, calling them names and just being rude to actually helping.
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georgemattson's Avatar


georgemattson
11.09.2013 , 01:20 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Technohic View Post
I exist with that mentality. I also look inward as often as I can when things don't go right because I realize I am not perfect, nor the best pvper.

See, the pugs that need help generally are not of that mentality. Its always the premade or someone else fault, so they won't accept help. They may even start insulting their team and even if it really is their teams fault, they are doing nothing but throwing gas on the fire.

Now that's out of the way, I was thinking about making a thread on the positives of pugs. Not all are bad, and its important everyone knows that. I often think premade complaints are not even premades at times. Just better puts against bad ones. Have had some matches lately where me and teammates just seem to be on the same page, and that is awesome
Quote: Originally Posted by ScarletBlaze View Post
Sometimes though people have no idea what to do. I don't pvp and I will not based on what I have read and seen in these forums. I tried it once and tried to explain to the person I have no idea what I am supposed to do and let's just say from the behavior and the attitude I received I will not set foot in a pvp area again.

Sometimes if you take the time to try to help someone you may find out they just need some idea what to do and give them some time to learn some things. You don't learn the mechanics of the hard mode flashpoints or operations overnight. It takes practice.

Why do people expect people to know how to pvp when some may have never done it and then we are met with this kind of attitude. Why would we want to even try to learn to do something and maybe try to understand why people want to pvp when we are met with this type of attitude.

I don't know about you but why would I want to play with someone that is constantly yelling or screaming when someone makes a mistake .

If you take the time to help you may find you have taught someone something that they didn't know but most don't want to . They prefer yelling, calling them names and just being rude to actually helping.
Thank you so much to both of you - this is exactly what I'm talking about, and I know for a fact that people like us do exist. I know full well that I am not good at PvP and I pull some truly bonehead moves at times. There are many occasions when I get flustered, lose track of the ball carrier or the healer, or am just generally out of touch with what's going on. I still have instances where I think I'm attacking, moving, and defending, but in reality I'm just spamming nonsense into the chat box.

But I'm learning. I know that I suck, but I also know I suck less than I did last week and I suck one heck of a lot less than when I first started. I rarely get into the upper levels of the scoreboard at the end of the match, but I'm now routinely taking the #1 spot on objective points (which does nothing for my comms, but at least makes me useful).

Almost all of what I've learned, though, comes from actually playing. Some of it has come from other people telling me what to do (usually accompanied with a curse or insult, and often in ALL CAPS). I've read the forums ad nauseum and I've gone to a lot of other websites, but learning to do a regular 360 degree scan of the nodes instead of just looking for incoming was learned when someone stealthed in, capped the node, and didn't bother me until after he'd capped. Yeah, it was a profoundly stupid move on my part, but I don't do that any more now.

But as ScarletBlaze points out, you don't just know this stuff. Nobody is just born with the knowledge of how to play PvP. Everyone has to learn somewhere. Yeah, I would agree that there's a lot of immature players who won't listen and they're definitely very loud and obnoxious (hence why I'm very grateful for /ignore), but how many players join WZs for the first time without really knowing what they're doing, and get verbally assaulted because they don't know that you're supposed to grab orbs and bring them to the pylons, or guard the cannons in ACW? WZ strategies aren't always intuitive, and even if they're intuitive for a player who has a long history of PvP gaming, it's not necessarily intuitive to the 35 year old stockbroker who decided to try SWTOR on a lark and wanting to see what the game was like. Yeah, his (or her) first impression might be, "this is kind of fun, and I want to do it again and learn how to do this better," but it's just as likely to be "these guys are raging jerks with serious emotional problems and I don't want to deal with them again."

Personally, I find it rather sad that Scarlet has reached the conclusion she(? - guessing here) has on not wanting to do PvP, but in no way can I blame her. When the vocal minority is the only voice, and they're the ones shouting about how terrible everyone is, scream at people to guard nodes (when they themselves have no interest in doing so), and curse at people who try to make things better, is it their fault for being obnoxious or our fault for not offering a different voice? If the only voice you hear is negative, how can you form a positive impression?

Honestly, I think everyone who reads this thread and agrees with me should just start speaking up in WZ chat. Be supportive, be helpful, and offer instructions. For the emotionally stunted players who can't deal with that, use the /ignore option.

I'll bet you real money that we could make a legitimate difference and that the overall quality of WZ PUG play would improve.

Oh, and btw... Scarlet, if you're ever on PoT5, I would be more than happy to play WZs with you. Even if you're worse at it than I am (which would be hard to do).

Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
11.09.2013 , 01:40 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by georgemattson View Post
For the emotionally stunted players who can't deal with that, use the /ignore option.
In warzones, there's a problem with ignore. Since /ignore doesn't affect matchmaking - you get to same teams with people you have ignored - you may make life more difficult to yourself and/or your team. When that person who was insulting everyone last match tries to call incs in the next match, you can't see those messages. Which may result in you losing a node.

With my healers, I usually dealt with this kind of people by stopping healing them. Hopefully, they die, a lot, and ragequit, and we get someone with manners as a backfill.
There is a face beneath this mask but it's not me.
Red Eclipse - 22 characters - The Firslay Legacy