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Warrior storyline - spoilers!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Warrior storyline - spoilers!!

xMegrinx's Avatar


xMegrinx
10.20.2013 , 11:38 AM | #11
I agree, but by the time you can marry Quinn haven't you already been backstabbed by Baras? Or am I wrong there? And if I'm right...maybe he shouldn't go marrying someone who's the enemy of his real master.

I should've kicked him off my ship and let him float around in space for a while. Jerk.
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StarMagus's Avatar


StarMagus
10.20.2013 , 11:44 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by xMegrinx View Post
I agree, but by the time you can marry Quinn haven't you already been backstabbed by Baras? Or am I wrong there? And if I'm right...maybe he shouldn't go marrying someone who's the enemy of his real master.

I should've kicked him off my ship and let him float around in space for a while. Jerk.
It totally depends on how you raise your affection level with him. Most of his story doesn't follow unless you max it out AFTER you complete your class story.

So the way the story is supposed to flow would be...

Realtionship with you.

Back Stab but forgiven.

Commits himself to you and your cause.

Marriage.

Some people max out his affection though so he finishes his line of conversations right after Act 2 before Baras turns on you.

That said, he does say that he had hoped that you and Baras would never come to blows, so even if you are married he is being asked to choose between his wife and his country... I can't blame him for choosing country.

Based on the other companions who have level requirements for their story, it would make sense for the marriage level to be around the same time they are hitting their level 47 or so story which would be after him picking Baras over you. That said we are talking about the Empire. Husband/Wife backstabs are so common they would be about the same level as a minor argument over who's turn it is to take out the trash in our time.

CloudCastle's Avatar


CloudCastle
10.20.2013 , 05:07 PM | #13
Quinn's storyline needs to be timed to work alongside the greater class story in a certain way for it to make the most sense. I think it was a mistake not to gate his quests with game mechanics in order to force this play-through, in my opinion. Some of his later conversations even allude to the betrayal and make more sense when done after Corellia. Unfortunately, anyone trying to avoid spoilers will probably not read a thread like this and know to hold off on his affection.

Moral of the story: Don't throw yourself at Quinn, ladies. Good things come to those who wait.

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
10.20.2013 , 05:27 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by CloudCastle View Post
Quinn's storyline needs to be timed to work alongside the greater class story in a certain way for it to make the most sense. I think it was a mistake not to gate his quests with game mechanics in order to force this play-through, in my opinion. Some of his later conversations even allude to the betrayal and make more sense when done after Corellia. Unfortunately, anyone trying to avoid spoilers will probably not read a thread like this and know to hold off on his affection.

Moral of the story: Don't throw yourself at Quinn, ladies. Good things come to those who wait.
So true.

I maxed out Quinn's affection fairly early and it was disappointing, to say the least, having no conversations whatsoever after his betrayal, which leads to the other issue I didn't exactly address...

If you're a LS'ed or fairly balanced SW, it's fairly easy to max him out, even without gifts.

Lumenadducere's Avatar


Lumenadducere
10.20.2013 , 06:56 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
The, ah, Quinncident has probably caused more drama on this forum than any other part of any storyline in the game. So yeah, I'd say that a lot of people were annoyed by it.

Famously, during beta it was possible to kill Quinn for his transgressions, but that option was removed after people started whining about how they didn't realize that killing Quinn meant losing their companion healer. Brainless idiots. What could have been...
This is one of the things that bugs me the most about this game. When players laugh at how simplified some things are, you really only have to point to this. People are idiots sometimes.

I really, really hope that they eventually decide to return the ability to kill off companions. Especially now that you can get Treek or other companions in-game. What I wouldn't do to kill Skadge and get him off my BH ship...he seriously has the least excuse story-wise to be there out of any companion I've seen. I was so upset that I had to bring him along. Waste of game data and development resources.

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
10.20.2013 , 08:20 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by StarMagus View Post
That said, he does say that he had hoped that you and Baras would never come to blows, so even if you are married he is being asked to choose between his wife and his country... I can't blame him for choosing country.
Maybe.

Problem 1: "Baras" isn't synonymous with "the Empire". At all. He's one Sith warlord; there are lots of them, and most of them fight each other. Quinn isn't choosing his country over the Warrior, he's choosing one Sith Lord over another.
Problem 2: Baras explicitly states at the end of the Warrior's class quest on Balmorra that Quinn has discharged his obligation to him. Therefore, by his own admission Baras has no claim on Quinn's loyalty that supersedes others'. Furthermore, Quinn approaches the Warrior afterward and asks to work for her. Quinn isn't Baras' man, assigned by him to work for the Warrior; Quinn is the Warrior's man.
Problem 3: Quinn reiterates his loyalty toward the Warrior in the aftermath of Baras' betrayal on Quesh. Presumably, had he been having issues reconciling his loyalty to the Warrior with his ostensible loyalty to Baras, he would have cleared the air; one would think that someone supposedly grateful to the Warrior yet still bound to obey Baras would have behaved 'honorably' and withdrawn from the crew.
Problem 4: Quinn offers up strategic advice to the Warrior in her war against Baras that helps - a lot. One of the reasons that the Corellian trap was somewhat plausible beforehand is that Quinn had offered up similar hints against Baras earlier in Chapter 3 that totally checked out, on Belsavis and with Armageddon Battalion. Both of those hurt Baras pretty seriously. Why did Quinn keep going along with the Warrior then? Why did he wait until after Voss to spring his ill-designed trap?

The way the storyline is set up, then, is a little bizarre. Instead of being a somewhat understandable action by a man who's torn between two loyalties that follows from previous events, it instead appears as though Quinn had a brain transplant while the Warrior was on Voss. Some fanfiction writers have reconciled this in intelligent ways; I particularly liked Vesaniae's, although it doesn't apply to male Warriors or female Warriors who don't romance Quinn.

I, for one, can't think of a way to make the Quinncident work in most SW stories, so I just ignore it.
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krakadyla's Avatar


krakadyla
10.21.2013 , 03:31 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Maybe.

Problem 2: Baras explicitly states at the end of the Warrior's class quest on Balmorra that Quinn has discharged his obligation to him. Therefore, by his own admission Baras has no claim on Quinn's loyalty that supersedes others'. Furthermore, Quinn approaches the Warrior afterward and asks to work for her. Quinn isn't Baras' man, assigned by him to work for the Warrior; Quinn is the Warrior's man.
You seem to take ol Barry's words for truth, and hoo boy would that make him proud, I imagine. For me, it was quite instantly apparent that Baras cheats, manipulates and lies through his teeth like a career politician. The whole scene in the end of Balmorra raised my "Wow, such a not suspicious at all coincidence!" flags, and when the Voss prophecy happened I was, "Bingo!" The whole "romance" angle works into the set of things quite well, given how it's pretty much a textbook case of sexual harassment, which makes betrayal much easier. As "For the Empire!" thing -- again, Baras is a master manipulator and Quinn probably isn't the only one who bought his "My infighting will end all other infightings and it's for the best of our Empire!" spiel.

The only thing that doesn't make sense for me is Quinn being spared. While our Warrior gives impression of someone who uses their head for headbutting more often than thinking, s/he is not that stupid.

StarMagus's Avatar


StarMagus
10.21.2013 , 05:15 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Maybe.

Problem 1: "Baras" isn't synonymous with "the Empire". At all. He's one Sith warlord; there are lots of them, and most of them fight each other. Quinn isn't choosing his country over the Warrior, he's choosing one Sith Lord over another.
No but to Quinn Baras is trying to take over the Empire and push it in a better direction. By the time the Betrayal happens Baras is one step away from absolute power, and only one other sith warlord stands in his way. Not only that be he seems to run things better for the Empire than the other options.


Quote:
Problem 2: Baras explicitly states at the end of the Warrior's class quest on Balmorra that Quinn has discharged his obligation to him. Therefore, by his own admission Baras has no claim on Quinn's loyalty that supersedes others'. Furthermore, Quinn approaches the Warrior afterward and asks to work for her. Quinn isn't Baras' man, assigned by him to work for the Warrior; Quinn is the Warrior's man.
You believed Baras? I mean what was he going to say to you? "Hey, take Quinn with you, he's totally my spy and is going to backstab you, but you know me being Sith and all I can't lie." Baras set you up to have a spy in your group that was loyal to him. Anything he said to get you to accept the spy was well... what he needed to say to get you to accept the spy.



Quote:
Problem 3: Quinn reiterates his loyalty toward the Warrior in the aftermath of Baras' betrayal on Quesh. Presumably, had he been having issues reconciling his loyalty to the Warrior with his ostensible loyalty to Baras, he would have cleared the air; one would think that someone supposedly grateful to the Warrior yet still bound to obey Baras would have behaved 'honorably' and withdrawn from the crew.
Again, he's a long term spy in your camp. What did you think he was going to say. "Wow, you survived Baras's backstab, I'm working for Baras as well, but my backstab won't happen until later. You know because us long term under cover spies have to be honest to the people we are spying on."




Quote:
Problem 4: Quinn offers up strategic advice to the Warrior in her war against Baras that helps - a lot. One of the reasons that the Corellian trap was somewhat plausible beforehand is that Quinn had offered up similar hints against Baras earlier in Chapter 3 that totally checked out, on Belsavis and with Armageddon Battalion. Both of those hurt Baras pretty seriously. Why did Quinn keep going along with the Warrior then? Why did he wait until after Voss to spring his ill-designed trap?
That's the thing about under cover spies. In order to work they have to feed you information that seems to help you but that they think you would have come to on your own in the long run. Nothing Quinn said on either of those two planets seemed to be any great source or hint of something that my character wouldn't have figured out or didn't already know. Sure he said stuff that was helpful, but not stuff that was beyond helpful.

Quote:
The way the storyline is set up, then, is a little bizarre. Instead of being a somewhat understandable action by a man who's torn between two loyalties that follows from previous events, it instead appears as though Quinn had a brain transplant while the Warrior was on Voss. Some fanfiction writers have reconciled this in intelligent ways; I particularly liked Vesaniae's, although it doesn't apply to male Warriors or female Warriors who don't romance Quinn.

I, for one, can't think of a way to make the Quinncident work in most SW stories, so I just ignore it.
Not to me, his story line worked as somebody who was a long term undercover spy and fed you just enough information to make you think he's critical to his success, without giving you anything that you wouldn't have already gotten. That's how under cover betrayals work. Was it the best one I've ever read? No... but it worked. The fact that you still are having problems with it shows that it was a really good one. That's how the best betrayals work, the people backstabbed still are left puzzled about things long after they are done.

Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
10.21.2013 , 07:43 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by StarMagus View Post
Not only that be he seems to run things better for the Empire than the other options.
By critically undermining Imperial military operations in the interests of furthering his political machinations? Repeatedly? Baras was willing to risk losing Corellia and all Imperial military assests stationed there just for the chance his rival, Vowrawn, would go down with them, and Quinn knows this. And perhaps I'm misunderstanding him here, but Baras seemed canny enough to recognise that provoking a war with the Republic isn't a particularly good idea, but he does it anyway to push Vengean into disfavour with the rest of the council.

Baras does what's best for Baras. If the Empire benefits - and, let's be honest, it generally doesn't - it's as a side effect.

StarMagus's Avatar


StarMagus
10.21.2013 , 08:55 AM | #20
Having one Sith Lord controlling the Empire would make it run better in the long run. The infighting does more harm than good, so yeah while it could be any Sith Lord to make it work, the fact is Baras was the closest to getting there and Quinn was already tied to him.

That said, you spend most of the game listening to how Baras has one of the best spy networks in the entire galaxy, the idea that he wouldn't have a spy with you is just silly.