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So did they basically nerf all crafting in this patch?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
So did they basically nerf all crafting in this patch?

EvgenijM's Avatar


EvgenijM
10.03.2013 , 06:20 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by abercromb View Post
Nope.

They moved it all up a level again. They do this every few months ...
Highest tier gear is now purchasable for comms.
Craftable gear is now 2 tier lower than BiS gear.

This never happened before.

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
10.03.2013 , 07:34 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by EvgenijM View Post
They were silent about this untill last day. Lead Designer Jesse Sky mentioned that Kell Dragon won't be craftable in 2.4 about a week before the patch. But his posted was deleted shortly afterwards.

Anyway, the reason crafting took such hit is not the inability to craft 75 or 78 itself.
Before 2.4 we had a world when BiS gear could not be crafted or purchased with comms. I believe this was a perfect decision, since to get best gear you had to work really hard, doing NiM Ops. Not everyone had a team or skills to complete NiM bosses, so grade 75 gear was a reward for hardcore progression gamers. In per-2.4 world crafting 72 gear helped people to optimize their gear and gear up to complete harder content.
Well, this part did not change after 2.4 - we still can't craft BiS gear (75 and 78), but now people can get BiS gear for comms. And to get those comms they can do 16-man SM Ops and Flashpoints - the easiest stuff in the end-game which basically is a run-through with current gear.
Of course, current BiS gear for comms is not too good. But even non-optimal gradee 78 mods you get for comms are same or better than optimal 72, because the difference between them is now two tiers. Same as before tanks got worse mods again, but healers and DPS can get a lot of good mods for comm.
While I'll admit crafting did take a huge hit during 2.4, I'd still say crafters can still craft 72 enhancements, which are far better then the crappy 78 enhancements they give in the vendor gear (for sorc healers anyway). The loss in power/crit isn't really worth the increase in surge/alac. I personally don't see why they'd take out the Isotope 5's from the basic vendor tho. To me that is the real hit for the crafters. The loss of the isotopes means fewer people will even go to get those enhancements crafted.
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tanktest's Avatar


tanktest
10.07.2013 , 01:12 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by EvgenijM View Post
They were silent about this untill last day. Lead Designer Jesse Sky mentioned that Kell Dragon won't be craftable in 2.4 about a week before the patch. But his posted was deleted shortly afterwards.

Anyway, the reason crafting took such hit is not the inability to craft 75 or 78 itself.
Before 2.4 we had a world when BiS gear could not be crafted or purchased with comms. I believe this was a perfect decision, since to get best gear you had to work really hard, doing NiM Ops. Not everyone had a team or skills to complete NiM bosses, so grade 75 gear was a reward for hardcore progression gamers. In per-2.4 world crafting 72 gear helped people to optimize their gear and gear up to complete harder content.
Well, this part did not change after 2.4 - we still can't craft BiS gear (75 and 78), but now people can get BiS gear for comms. And to get those comms they can do 16-man SM Ops and Flashpoints - the easiest stuff in the end-game which basically is a run-through with current gear.
Of course, current BiS gear for comms is not too good. But even non-optimal gradee 78 mods you get for comms are same or better than optimal 72, because the difference between them is now two tiers. Same as before tanks got worse mods again, but healers and DPS can get a lot of good mods for comms.

What was developers' reasoning behind this? I frankly can't come up with anything reasonable.
Was it the idea to make it easier for people to get grade 78 gear? But it's disappointment and loss of challenge for others.
They plan to make 75 or 78 craftable soon?
Or was it simply the easiest thing to do, since shifting gear tiers for all ops would require a remake of existing content and huge amount of testing effort. And they just took the easier path?
I don't know. Guess we have to wait and find out.
But for now it looks they had no plan at all. The decision looks incompetent and not well-though.
We might need to speak up and say this loud to them, but frankly I myself can't yet come up with any serious solution on how exactly this situation could be fixed now.
We have all ways been able to get bis with coms , that never really stopped .

Quote: Originally Posted by EvgenijM View Post
But for now it looks they had no plan at all. The decision looks incompetent and not well-though.
We should have picked up on that for NIM gear when you could only get it with tokens ..
I think that was the plan all a long , but you made a good point why didn't they just tell us up front not wait till now .

and sense we can buy 78's with coms we can expect them to be craft able when 81's hit which might be NIM gear or the next expac is said , which i do hope they think out on how trades are gonna work for the next expac , i mean will 78 even be worth it , once a new expac hits if it happens or will they set a good time line for 78's to be worth the trouble that said

i'd say expect NIM DF /DP gear to be the last gear before the expac and not craft able .

SO buy in BiS with tokens Or coms never really stopped , it did took a back door to NIM gear . which prolly wont ever sty BiS for long and prolly will all ways only be bought with tokens or drops only in NIM .

Which I 'm ok with, i don't run NIM have been asked to a few times , i just don't want to , its not a big deal to me , If i do or don't ..


But i wish they had let us know that was the plan ...Like i said I am OK with NIM being drop only gear .

BTW I was one of the main posters in that post that was on PTS . if i rember I did not ask once if we were gonna be able to craft 75, i sort of had a feeling it wasn't gonna happen . i was worried about trades and whats ahead, I'm not now .

One last thought there is all ways a plan it may seem there isn't but there is .. I'm not taking up for BW/EA . thats just a fact, its all planed , just how they Deploy that plan may be the problem , that needs to be thought out more . the plan it self does seem solid .

Just my thought .

tanktest's Avatar


tanktest
10.07.2013 , 01:56 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
While I'll admit crafting did take a huge hit during 2.4, I'd still say crafters can still craft 72 enhancements, which are far better then the crappy 78 enhancements they give in the vendor gear (for sorc healers anyway). The loss in power/crit isn't really worth the increase in surge/alac. I personally don't see why they'd take out the Isotope 5's from the basic vendor tho. To me that is the real hit for the crafters. The loss of the isotopes means fewer people will even go to get those enhancements crafted.

reason for that , and remeber im not in favor of how hey do it but it is there game etc ..

One of the Dev posted, why, they did it that way with gear that is bought with coms , two reason, i think he said was to slow down how fast we gear, main reason and they want us to work for it .

the surge/alac thing was for those reason .

remeber tank gear has ala which made no sense at all till a DEV came out and told us why imo they admitted that was why . because at that time they were pushing ala to make it seem worth while .

which i still don't stack (ala) on my Sorc healer and I'm one of the best healers on my server .

Don't ask my name i won't give it out on the forums till they fix there forums rules ,i got warned one time for using names on the forums so i won't any more ..

ISO 5 was a Bug mistake they did rewrite that vendor from 66 to 69 and the way the game engines works it does not update itself like most game engines and why we have so many bugs now , it is a very carply engine but I'm not here complaining about that ,they are doing a awesome job imo with what they have . I'm no EA fan never have been and prolly never will be . have never liked EA but do love SW ..

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
10.07.2013 , 02:20 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by EnderSeventyFour View Post
There are a lot of really nice things in this patch... But as far as crafting is concerned, it really feels like it was forgotten.
"Woops, we've just made end game crafting useless"
They keep forgetting crafting repeatedly.

ps. I agree that BiS gear should not be able to be crafted or purchased.
"Welcome to Dromund Kaas, where freedom goes to die and legends are forced on the galaxy."
- Vette

tanktest's Avatar


tanktest
10.07.2013 , 02:31 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
They keep forgetting crafting repeatedly.

ps. I agree that BiS gear should not be able to be crafted or purchased.

i don't agree we should be able to buy it , craft it no i do agree there .. all MMO i have ever played you can buy bis gear with out raiding but have to work for it that includes WoW , RIFT and EQ .. but you also still have to raid like here for some gear which is fine . but in wow set bonuses can be had without raiding . which like here you can't unless you raid . weapons like WOW you had to raid for like here well MH here any way . I do hope that stays how it is ..

you can buy some hard mode gear in wow with there version of coms or could before i stopped playing like here . but if you wanted the good stuff like here you had to raid for it .


and the fact you can't buy one set of gear and again i hope that stays how it should be enough to please everyone ( NIM gear ) .

you can iqnore that fact or say diff but it is plan as day it much better here and the way gear works atm is best for all of us ..


Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
They keep forgetting crafting repeatedly.
Crafting was not forgotten if it was 2.4 would have went live and Jessy could not have said nothing on the PTS forums.

they should gave us a time line for crafting now that is needed . and stick to it .

Lowyjowylof's Avatar


Lowyjowylof
10.07.2013 , 11:26 AM | #27
The only thing that raiding should give you is tokens/comms or w/e for set bonus pieces. The last game with any real crafting was SWG. Here, quite frankly, a 4 year old can figure it out. As far as Armorings and Mods go from end game crafting, their sales have been marginal because they can be gotten via comms. However, not one of the "ideal' enhancements can be gotten that way. From a DPS perspective, you cannot get one Initiative enhancement or Adept from a non raid piece of gear.

What they should have done is move the 75s to the Ultimate Vendor, put the 78s on the Kell Dragon Vendor, then made Kell Dragon Craftable.

Although, they really have the opportunity to revamp crafting, by doing a couple things. They could switch the raids to getting comms for set bonuses, allow crafters to craft the modifications, move armorings to Armormech, enhancements to synthweaving (this balances the professions) with reliable money makers. You'd have to rearrange augments and allow everyone to make kits, but completely doable and not game changing in the least.

You still give the raiders preference by having said schematics drop in raids and have other things drop like weapons skins or enhancers that give greater damage more protection and of course vehicles and other vanity items.
Battle is an orgy of disorder.
George S. Patton

benovide's Avatar


benovide
10.07.2013 , 04:59 PM | #28
I personally beleave they should absolutely allow you to make BIS gear, instead of having to rely on level 55 artifact quality gear, which not many can make at all (level 68 stat ranges)

Still working on Armormech, so not sure how high of stat level the 55 arts can get up to, but as far as weapons, and so fourth, not many issues at all.

But ultimately, this hurts HM OPS more than helps them. Forcing higher level players to go through HM OPs which even with maxed out modded armors, are inferior to the battle unless they want to constantly die over and over and over and over and over again and healers that cannot take even a second off from looking at their screen, it hurts the game more than helps it. You simply just will not and do not have that dramatic/that much of a hardcore player base.

benovide's Avatar


benovide
10.07.2013 , 05:10 PM | #29
But really all this stuff does, is make HMS easier the more you grind them. Like I discovered with my assassin. For PVP. Your gear stats higher than 72. Are reduced down. Only in PVE do you really see the benefits. But at that point, if you're happier and have more fun doing raids with friends and guild members in the normal FPs and fight in PvP more often. It really just makes the hm grinding for gear pointless. Since none of the him gear benefits can be utilized outside of pve.

Unless you truly prefer the aesthetics of the gear.

In sith fleet today it took a group of players 3 1/2 hours to get a HM going. I had fought I n at least 14 pvps and two FPs before they finally got a full group. Because they required BIS outfitted players. Players still ended up quitting that hm because their medics were crap. Almost 4 hours wasted for nothing.

But they have to have their PVE only benefit gear. That really doesn't look very good IMHO.

Gloomycakes's Avatar


Gloomycakes
10.07.2013 , 06:52 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by tanktest View Post
We have all ways been able to get bis with coms , that never really stopped .
To be fair unless I missed some vital information (if so, inform me please, I got comms overflowing thanks to playing tanks mainly) the most sought after Enhancements are unavailable for Commendations. For Tanks there're even no Mitigation heavy mods available. Healers come out pretty well with the ability to get unlettered mods aswell as Quick Savant (power heavy, endurance low and alacrity) on different pieces, but it's available nonetheless. DPS miss their oh so important Initiative Enhancements and Tanks really get the short end, well mitigation heavy tanks, with nothing BiS from the commendations.

On the other hand since the setbonus pieces often come with the desired enhancements I don't see why anyone would still get it crafted. Even if that's not the reason I can imagine people like being able to say "I'm full 78" not really caring if their over-all stats aren't too great. Or those Tanks that don't care about mitigation and think HP is just too sexy to not stack as high as possible.

Well to be the odd one out, I've been making more money than ever on augment kits and low-level stuff. I don't really think Bioware intended to nerf, rather forgot about crafting for a second. Nonetheless it's not correct if a low-end crafter like me is enjoying a patch whilst all the dedicated crafters suffer.