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Here's what's wrong with PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Here's what's wrong with PvP

JP_Legatus's Avatar


JP_Legatus
09.19.2013 , 08:57 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Yestreen View Post
If you think CC is bad in this game you should try playing WOW.

I actually think the CC system is one of the strongest aspects of this game. You have a standardized system that gives you visual feedback on when you can/can't and should/shouldn't CC. 100x better than WOW's DR system.

I think Guard will have to be tweaked a little to increase TTK, but they also need to nerf DPS specs in tank stance so that full tank specs still bring something to the table.
Guard is fine, but the dps in tank stance definitely needs a nerf
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Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.19.2013 , 09:22 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by JP_Legatus View Post
I agree with all this stuff except for guard. Tanks are already kinda pointless in a variety of scenarios and you only take one into a rated. There's no reason to nerf tanks as they aren't responsible for the recent TTK problems - massive sweeping boosts to hp, healing, and survivability with not much increase in dps is what's responsible for it.
Are we playing the same game? I don't think we are. That or you have actually never pvp'd before.

snaplemouton's Avatar


snaplemouton
09.19.2013 , 10:36 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
No, resolve itself is a great idea, it is just implemented poorly. Especially after the changes made in 1.4
Resolve is a Noobified CC mechanism. It's made retarded easy to manage CC with a green/red light concept.
When it's green (Not full) you can CC. When it's red (Full) you can't.

Change the mechanism to a DR one and now you'll have to actually watch the screen and see what your allies are doing instead to know if you can CC or not and how effective it will be.

For whoever said as an argument that they do it this way to keep bad players playing. Well here's a solution: Cross-server queues and hidden personnal normal rating.
Make it like LoL and put an hidden rating to people when they do normal warzones at level 55 and make them face their rating level. With cross-server queues you would have plenty of people to mix.
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snaplemouton's Avatar


snaplemouton
09.19.2013 , 10:43 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by JP_Legatus View Post
I agree with all this stuff except for guard. Tanks are already kinda pointless in a variety of scenarios and you only take one into a rated. There's no reason to nerf tanks as they aren't responsible for the recent TTK problems - massive sweeping boosts to hp, healing, and survivability with not much increase in dps is what's responsible for it.
My point with a change to guard isn't to nerf the tanks. If you look at my edit, it would actually benefit good tank players while punishing bad players by making guard have a more active role.

Here's how I'd love to see guard made into:
Guard: Reduce damage taken by 5% and threat generated by 25%. Transfer 35% of players damage to the tank. Additionally, applying or swapping guard to another ally reset the cooldown on Protect. 4 seconds cooldown.
New ability: Protect: Increase guard's transfer amount by 25% (60% total) for 4 seconds. 8 seconds cooldown. This ability doesn't respect the global cooldown.
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madtycoon's Avatar


madtycoon
09.20.2013 , 06:10 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by snaplemouton View Post
My point with a change to guard isn't to nerf the tanks. If you look at my edit, it would actually benefit good tank players while punishing bad players by making guard have a more active role.

Here's how I'd love to see guard made into:
Guard: Reduce damage taken by 5% and threat generated by 25%. Transfer 35% of players damage to the tank. Additionally, applying or swapping guard to another ally reset the cooldown on Protect. 4 seconds cooldown.
New ability: Protect: Increase guard's transfer amount by 25% (60% total) for 4 seconds. 8 seconds cooldown. This ability doesn't respect the global cooldown.
I doubt they would ever make this change, but it would be pretty amazing if they did. Would you have this protect ability baseline or would it be high up in the tanking trees tacted onto another talent (pvp only)? or would it just require defensive stance?

Sadly this would probably be too much of a change for the development team. If you look at changes from the past, they don't really look to increase skill cap and seperate the levels of players much. Not that it would be hard at all to just hit an ability off global as long as it had a simple animation, so it doesn't animation bug like most abilities tend to if you don't spam them that are off global.

The other concern with making tanking harder is that as the next patch hits, tanks are going to be needed a lot more. Ranked you need 1 tank in a team of 8? Arenas you need 1 tank in a team of 4. I'm all for increasing skill cap where ever you can, but I don't think the devs are stupid. They have to realize that the majority of the tanking population don't even guard swap. lol

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.20.2013 , 12:33 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by snaplemouton View Post
Resolve is a Noobified CC mechanism. It's made retarded easy to manage CC with a green/red light concept.
When it's green (Not full) you can CC. When it's red (Full) you can't.

Change the mechanism to a DR one and now you'll have to actually watch the screen and see what your allies are doing instead to know if you can CC or not and how effective it will be.

For whoever said as an argument that they do it this way to keep bad players playing. Well here's a solution: Cross-server queues and hidden personnal normal rating.
Make it like LoL and put an hidden rating to people when they do normal warzones at level 55 and make them face their rating level. With cross-server queues you would have plenty of people to mix.
I'm not against a DR system, but I also think yours and Legatus argument is both silly and void since there are dozens of WoW addons that allow you to put a visual aid on the screen for the DR rates and there is nothing wrong with doing that either. There is nothing "noobified" about the resolve mechanic itself. It's implemented poorly but the design itself is a good idea and in some aspects is better than a DR system.

Briljin's Avatar


Briljin
09.20.2013 , 02:06 PM | #47
Quote:
I played wow for 5 years thank you. WoW CC management is far better then SWTOR.
The problem is SWToR would have to create DR categories and then assign each "CC" ability to a category. Remember in WoW not all CCs are upon the same DR. For example Sap was not upon the stun DR, it shared with things like Mez. In SWToR they are all thrown into one pot and that would never work with a DR system.

Quote:
You don't get good by having a bar telling you when you can CC
Are you sure you played WoW because there were entire UI mods designed around keeping track of DRs and cool down for your opponents. The resolve bar is far less help then what one could use in WoW.

snaplemouton's Avatar


snaplemouton
09.20.2013 , 03:03 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Briljin View Post
Are you sure you played WoW because there were entire UI mods designed around keeping track of DRs and cool down for your opponents. The resolve bar is far less help then what one could use in WoW.
The UI mods wasn't White = CC, not white = don't CC.
You still had to take in consideration DR, which stuns would hit which DRs and so on. Here it's all the stuns in the same bar and it's green/red light.
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JP_Legatus's Avatar


JP_Legatus
09.20.2013 , 07:09 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
I'm not against a DR system, but I also think yours and Legatus argument is both silly and void since there are dozens of WoW addons that allow you to put a visual aid on the screen for the DR rates and there is nothing wrong with doing that either. There is nothing "noobified" about the resolve mechanic itself. It's implemented poorly but the design itself is a good idea and in some aspects is better than a DR system.
I never commented on resolve Couldn't really care less how resolve works as it mostly affects everyone equally.

All I commented on is that people are calling for guard nerfs which is retarded. Looking at the typical composition of most teams and the number of tanks taken is enough evidence of that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
Are we playing the same game? I don't think we are. That or you have actually never pvp'd before.
Idk are we? I gave nothing but facts, nobody even knows what you're arguing with. Acting like I never pvp'd before won't get you very far in this debate, and I've certainly never seen any proof that you pvp.

Quote: Originally Posted by JP_Legatus
I agree with all this stuff except for guard. Tanks are already kinda pointless in a variety of scenarios and you only take one into a rated. There's no reason to nerf tanks as they aren't responsible for the recent TTK problems - massive sweeping boosts to hp, healing, and survivability with not much increase in dps is what's responsible for it.
Feel free to indicate what part of that post is inaccurate. Again those are all facts, though I did forget to mention the crit chance nerf which is another reason TTK went up in 2.0 without guard/taunt mechanics changing at all.
Plaje - 55 Assassin Sorcheals - 55 Sorcerer
TheHulkk - 55 Juggernaut Riksa - 55 Marauder
Ophealing - 55 Operative Lolsniper - 55 Sniper
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Sangrar's Avatar


Sangrar
09.21.2013 , 09:14 AM | #50
guard is needed by tanks to help them be tanks. the whole point is to be able to take a lot of damage and protect other players from it. 50% of damage goes back to the tank who placed the guard so I don't see the problem. Anyway just take the healer or tank and get them a distance from each other. After 15 meters distance I believe guard is innefective. Seriously a lot of guys just give up instead of adapting. Example, about a year ago I believe "oh mi god pyrotech is too powerful!" "like ohmigod we have no idea how to fight a good dps at all, nerf pyrotechs!" "ohmigod nerf range with it so we can start making powertech pyrotechs closer to melee even though they were meant to be ranged class to begin with", and a few months later "you idiots just had my pyrotech nerfed to the ground its useless now!" so a bunch of rants later followed by a guy screwed over by the guys who had no idea how to take a dps down who pressured Bioware into destroying pyrotechs for so long.
One more I PERSONALLY AM SUFFERING FOR. "ohmigod commando heals are too good" "ohmigod they are like healing tanks" "ohmigod I am so bad I am just going to complain until Bioware ruins them and makes them not only easier to kill but a good laugh for the enemy team at the end of warzones when they see his stats", later, commando heals suffer a lot of damage, resulting in us being called almost every day for a long time innefective and considered bad for pvp healing. Now everyone prefers a sage or scoundrel over us, I have adapted, but my numbers are not the same as before.
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