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Here's what's wrong with PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Here's what's wrong with PvP

snaplemouton's Avatar


snaplemouton
09.16.2013 , 06:37 PM | #1
There is definitely something wrong with PvP.
And I can sum it up in one phrase: "Errors are too easily forgiven."
This game carries terrible players by the hand and leave the most common errors unpunished (Such as backpeddle force speed, letting your explosive probe get cleansed, taunting an healer, mezing a dotted target, etc.).

1. CC can be thrown around without care. Due to how the only CC breaker people have (aside from sage/sorc) is on a 2 minute CD (1:30 minute if speced) while everybody got plentora of hard stuns and mezs with NEARLY NO COOLDOWNS (Dirty kick for scoundrels/gunslinger can be dropped to THIRTY SECONDS CD. That's 3-4 stuns per CC breaker on ONE SPELL.). Roots arn't affected by anything and can be used an infinite amount of time without punishing the player for stacking or using it on someone who was rooted multiple time already since there is no DR/immunity mechanism tied to roots (aside from special spells like hold the line). Most of the slows, roots or hard stuns deals damage... making using a stun on an immune target almost unpunishing because of how it still do damage. (Force slow damage is retarded too high for a spell meant to slow. WHY?)
Solution: RESOLVE is a BROKEN MECHANISM and NEEDS TO BE FIXED. Roots requires a Diminishing Return!!! No matter how people saw WoW CC mechanisms, they had the right ideas for CC management.

2. Interrupts. I don't think I have to explain... everyone got an interrupt. There is only 1 way to avoid interrupt and is for combat medic/bodyguard under their reactive shield. Interrupts combined with the plentora of CCs makes it virtually impossible for someone to cast anything as soon as there is 2 people attacking him/her.
Solution: After using an interrupt, the target should become UNINTERRUPTABLE for 4 seconds even if the interrupt DIDN'T LAND ON A CAST. Punish thoses who miss their interrupt, interrupt a fake cast or interrupt a worthless ability.

3. Many spells do too many things at the same time... First thing that come to mind: Force leap. It's a gap closer, a root, a damage dealing ability, a rage builder AND an interrupt. That is BEFORE it get boosted by additional talent/set bonus. It can then become a 4 second immunity to CC and +10% damage done for a vigilance guardian. That's SEVEN things tied to ONE ability. It's way too much.
Solution: Remove the damage counterpart of all hard stuns (Except for stasis/choke), remove the interrupt and damage from force leap, remove or reduce the damage of most slows and roots.

4. Guard. The most passive bullsh*t ever made. Fine it take skills to use it to it's best capacity with guard swapping. But it doesn't require a brain to put guard on an healer and become an unkillable duo without ever swapping.
Solution: Make guard transfer 30% damage and add an active ability that increase that number to 50% for a certain amount of time with a CD on it. (6 seconds duration with 12 seconds CD?)
Edit: 40% passive and 60% active might be better numbers or 35% passive 50% active. Thoses can be tweaked, but right now, passive 50% involve no active gameplay when you tankbot an healer.

All of theses things is exactly why Scoundrels/Operatives healers are consider OP and not the other AC healers. Because they can heal with instants and over time making interrupt a non factor and they still heal while stunned while guard make them virtually invincible. Not because they heal too much or because they have too many escape. Scoundrels/Operatives are as easy to kill without guard if not easier then other healers. Fixing the interrupt problem would bring back sages/sorcs and commandos/mercs healers to the same level as scoundrels/operatives healers while the change to guard would bring them all to a level where they can be killed. As for every other classes, you would finally be punished for using your abilities without care.
O o IMA FIRIN' MAH HAMMER SHOT!
//
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
09.16.2013 , 06:57 PM | #2
entrench is a hell of a lot more powerful tool to avoid interrupts than reactive shield on 1/3 merc/mando specs.

also, almost every channeled melee ability is immune to interrupts to begin with or can be spec'd as such (ravage, PFT, tankasin thing [forget name]) I don't know anything about madness sorc/sin, but deception doesn't use a channel...ever. so it's moot for them, and I'm pretty sure telekinetics has a brief immunity to cast (ala reactive shield's effect but shorter?) scrapper could care less. but I suppose you could argue that freighter fly bye is a sitting duck to interrupts. I guess cull is a channel. dunno if it's interruptable as I tend to los it (like series of shots) and don't play the spec.

no. interrupts are not a problem. not a problem at all. in fact, they are the opposite of a/the problem. I feel strongly that there should be more dependence on interrupts and far less dependence on stuns in this game. I also think teams should be forced to take specs that can really interrupt like a watchman sent or face the same dilemma of not having a buffed predation in the pre 2.0 days (remember when every class didn't have a ridiculously useful speed buff?).

the fact that stuns are available for use pretty much whenever, which makes them excellent interrupts, is a problem. I think you're correct there. however, you need more interrupts, not fewer, once you eliminate all of this stun. else healers really will be immortal.
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
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snaplemouton's Avatar


snaplemouton
09.16.2013 , 07:04 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
entrench is a hell of a lot more powerful tool to avoid interrupts than reactive shield on 1/3 merc/mando specs.

also, almost every channeled melee ability is immune to interrupts to begin with or can be spec'd as such (ravage, PFT, tankasin thing [forget name]) I don't know anything about madness sorc/sin, but deception doesn't use a channel...ever. so it's moot for them, and I'm pretty sure telekinetics has a brief immunity to cast (ala reactive shield's effect but shorter?) scrapper could care less. but I suppose you could argue that freighter fly bye is a sitting duck to interrupts. I guess cull is a channel. dunno if it's interruptable as I tend to los it (like series of shots) and don't play the spec.

no. interrupts are not a problem. not a problem at all. in fact, they are the opposite of a/the problem. I feel strongly that there should be more dependence on interrupts and far less dependence on stuns in this game. I also think teams should be forced to take specs that can really interrupt like a watchman sent or face the same dilemma of not having a buffed predation in the pre 2.0 days (remember when every class didn't have a ridiculously useful speed buff?).

the fact that stuns are available for use pretty much whenever, which makes them excellent interrupts, is a problem. I think you're correct there. however, you need more interrupts, not fewer, once you eliminate all of this stun. else healers really will be immortal.
When I say interrupts, it's meant for the 2 other healer classes that as stayed in scoundrel/operative healers's shadow since the very beginning of the game.
I'm not asking to eliminate interrupts. I'm asking for people to be punished for using interrupts on fake casts or nothing at all. An interrupted medical probe makes a commando healer useless. And with the change I'm asking, it's still possible to keep medical probe forever interrupted.

Also, cover interrupt immunity needs to be removed. Gunslinger/Sniper is OP right now only because of how they are immovable and unstoppable.
O o IMA FIRIN' MAH HAMMER SHOT!
//
| ███████ +153 +356 +153
\_\ Quebec Legacy

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.17.2013 , 12:35 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by snaplemouton View Post
When I say interrupts, it's meant for the 2 other healer classes that as stayed in scoundrel/operative healers's shadow since the very beginning of the game.
I'm not asking to eliminate interrupts. I'm asking for people to be punished for using interrupts on fake casts or nothing at all. An interrupted medical probe makes a commando healer useless. And with the change I'm asking, it's still possible to keep medical probe forever interrupted.

Also, cover interrupt immunity needs to be removed. Gunslinger/Sniper is OP right now only because of how they are immovable and unstoppable.
Snipers need cover immunity...They would be sitting ducks otherwise. If they are out of CD's and someone gets on them, they die...instantly...

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
09.17.2013 , 01:51 AM | #5
I Agree with the OP on all points, the CC was fine pre 1.4 but post 1.4 its so bad it makes one want to throw the keyboard through the monitor. the interrupts should be on a longer cd and add to resolve, roots should absolutely add to resolve. I do disagree however with the guard issue though if that was the case then no one would guard ne one esp in pugs.

most of the healers are OPS because they do excel because of the post 1.4 abomination BW put out. I do have a pvp healer sage I rarely play, its not worth the frustration, and ROFL # merc healers, God bless those whom have the patience to play a merc healer. BW wants to attract new players but with pvp in the state it is in good luck with that. the 4 man duels in 2.4 will get old fast, and 8v8 failed only due to no cross server pvp que function and a solo que option.

its almost as though they want to go forwards by stepping backwards and wearing a blind fold when the community asks for things.

1. cross server ques.
2. solo que option for rated 8v8s
3. feed back on our suggestions good or bad just something.
4. fix the pvp bugs, OP roll im looking at that bug <===
5. lag lag rubber banding
6. server que launching with less than 8 players in a wz
7. toning down the cc a bit more or reverse the resolve change in 1.4

most people love to pvp and love Star Wars, I want to stay but to be honest if my friends weren't playing / if I didn't have a guild that I really liked I would have left to play final fantasy like a lot of others have. the next game is wildstar that's going to take an even bigger chunk and ESO another chunk. BW really cant afford to lose a lot more players due to not listening to their customers. I am certain a lot of us including myself are sorry and feel bad for all the layoffs you had but for this game to succeed positive changes need to come. that means listening to your customers and communicating with us.

A KOTOR FAN
DarthSabreth
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!" Rip .

demystified's Avatar


demystified
09.17.2013 , 02:23 AM | #6
The OP doesn't really have any valid points and should learn 2 play rather than crying.

Interrupt isn't really a problem because it only interrupts one spell.
Guard isn't really a problem because 2 dps can kill anyone easily. Try playing in a team instead of joining a pickup grp. This will become more visible when arena starts so when that happens, you should remember that I told you to L2P.
About CC, stuns and mezzes.... they are meant to be spammed. You must be playing a juggernaut or marauder and all you do is leap into 5 enemies thinking you are a one man army. This game already has way too many escape abilities from roll, stealth, force speed and etc. If you don't stun a guy at the right time, he will be miles away.

Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
09.17.2013 , 02:41 AM | #7
El Guapo: Jefe, what does it mean to have a plethora?
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unicornfive's Avatar


unicornfive
09.17.2013 , 03:48 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by snaplemouton View Post
There is definitely something wrong with PvP.
And I can sum it up in one phrase: "Errors are too easily forgiven."
This game carries terrible players by the hand and leave the most common errors unpunished (Such as backpeddle force speed, letting your explosive probe get cleansed, taunting an healer, mezing a dotted target, etc.).

1. CC can be thrown around without care. Due to how the only CC breaker people have (aside from sage/sorc) is on a 2 minute CD (1:30 minute if speced) while everybody got plentora of hard stuns and mezs with NEARLY NO COOLDOWNS (Dirty kick for scoundrels/gunslinger can be dropped to THIRTY SECONDS CD. That's 3-4 stuns per CC breaker on ONE SPELL.). Roots arn't affected by anything and can be used an infinite amount of time without punishing the player for stacking or using it on someone who was rooted multiple time already since there is no DR/immunity mechanism tied to roots (aside from special spells like hold the line). Most of the slows, roots or hard stuns deals damage... making using a stun on an immune target almost unpunishing because of how it still do damage. (Force slow damage is retarded too high for a spell meant to slow. WHY?)
Solution: RESOLVE is a BROKEN MECHANISM and NEEDS TO BE FIXED. Roots requires a Diminishing Return!!! No matter how people saw WoW CC mechanisms, they had the right ideas for CC management.

2. Interrupts. I don't think I have to explain... everyone got an interrupt. There is only 1 way to avoid interrupt and is for combat medic/bodyguard under their reactive shield. Interrupts combined with the plentora of CCs makes it virtually impossible for someone to cast anything as soon as there is 2 people attacking him/her.
Solution: After using an interrupt, the target should become UNINTERRUPTABLE for 4 seconds even if the interrupt DIDN'T LAND ON A CAST. Punish thoses who miss their interrupt, interrupt a fake cast or interrupt a worthless ability.

3. Many spells do too many things at the same time... First thing that come to mind: Force leap. It's a gap closer, a root, a damage dealing ability, a rage builder AND an interrupt. That is BEFORE it get boosted by additional talent/set bonus. It can then become a 4 second immunity to CC and +10% damage done for a vigilance guardian. That's SEVEN things tied to ONE ability. It's way too much.
Solution: Remove the damage counterpart of all hard stuns (Except for stasis/choke), remove the interrupt and damage from force leap, remove or reduce the damage of most slows and roots.

4. Guard. The most passive bullsh*t ever made. Fine it take skills to use it to it's best capacity with guard swapping. But it doesn't require a brain to put guard on an healer and become an unkillable duo without ever swapping.
Solution: Make guard transfer 30% damage and add an active ability that increase that number to 50% for a certain amount of time with a CD on it. (6 seconds duration with 12 seconds CD?)

All of theses things is exactly why Scoundrels/Operatives healers are consider OP and not the other AC healers. Because they can heal with instants and over time making interrupt a non factor and they still heal while stunned while guard make them virtually invincible. Not because they heal too much or because they have too many escape. Scoundrels/Operatives are as easy to kill without guard if not easier then other healers. Fixing the interrupt problem would bring back sages/sorcs and commandos/mercs healers to the same level as scoundrels/operatives healers while the change to guard would bring them all to a level where they can be killed. As for every other classes, you would finally be punished for using your abilities without care.
Entrench for snipers not only makes immune to interrupt, but also to all kind of cc.
Polarty shift for sorcs make them immune to interrupt too.
http://www.torhead.com/ability/ePes6KA/polarity-shift
The shield you mentioned for BH healers
So the only healer left without it is operative? Are you implying that operative healer needs buff because they can be interrupted?


Damage dealing ability??? The leap??? Are you on drugs?
Gap closer vs cover or electronet???
+10% dmg to vigilance??? Which talent???? Can you link maybe???
And you consider OP the fact that it builds up the main resource for warriors??? ***?? Maybe you should let warriors fight without rage and do only saber attack....Cause 3 rage is too much!!!! While enraged defence requires 14 rage?? (4 to activate + drains 1 rage per sec)

Your post is bad, misguiding and full of mistakes. It should be taken down immediately to avoid further confusion.

anwg's Avatar


anwg
09.17.2013 , 07:47 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by snaplemouton View Post
1. CC can be thrown around without care. Due to how the only CC breaker people have (aside from sage/sorc) is on a 2 minute CD (1:30 minute if speced) while everybody got plentora of hard stuns and mezs with NEARLY NO COOLDOWNS (Dirty kick for scoundrels/gunslinger can be dropped to THIRTY SECONDS CD. That's 3-4 stuns per CC breaker on ONE SPELL.). Roots arn't affected by anything and can be used an infinite amount of time without punishing the player for stacking or using it on someone who was rooted multiple time already since there is no DR/immunity mechanism tied to roots (aside from special spells like hold the line). Most of the slows, roots or hard stuns deals damage... making using a stun on an immune target almost unpunishing because of how it still do damage. (Force slow damage is retarded too high for a spell meant to slow. WHY?)
Solution: RESOLVE is a BROKEN MECHANISM and NEEDS TO BE FIXED. Roots requires a Diminishing Return!!! No matter how people saw WoW CC mechanisms, they had the right ideas for CC management.
The only players that throw around CC without care are the horrible ones (see the threads about nerfing healing)

Most roots break on damage, they can also be cleansed.

Using your stun for damage on a white barred opponent is a hilariously bad play. And the fact you are whining about that says a lot.

brewergamer's Avatar


brewergamer
09.17.2013 , 08:38 AM | #10
I'd like to see cross-server pvp queues honestly.
Brewer GodofPvP