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the game needs a decent healing debuff or a generell nerf to heal in warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
the game needs a decent healing debuff or a generell nerf to heal in warzones

RodneyMcNeely's Avatar


RodneyMcNeely
09.13.2013 , 12:33 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by waterboytkd View Post
In a 1v1 situation, only scoundrels/operatives seem really OP. In the hands of a good player, they are unkillable.

The real problem comes when cross-healing comes into play. Put 3 well-played healers on a team, and no one on their team dies. You might still be able to eek out a win, but no one dies.
This. ^^^^^ A million times over.

My main is a Vigilance Guardian, and I LOVE 1v1 encounters. I feel that Vigilance/Vengeance are very well-balanced for 1v1. If I play intelligently, I can win. If I get outplayed, I'll lose, and that seems about right. I like that my spec has a hard counter in Gunslingers/Snipers, but if my timing is right (particularly with Saber Ward, Resolute, and Saber Reflect), I still stand a good chance of beating them. I find it only moderately difficult to beat Sage/Sorcerer/Commando/Mercenary healers; it really comes down to judicious interrupting, good positioning, and lining up DoTs and burst.

However, against a Scoundrel/Operative healer that hasn't been lobotomized, I stand no chance whatsoever. The entire fight consists of me doing my damned level best to close the gap, apply as much CC/damage as I can in that short window, keep Freezing Force applied, then watching helplessly as they roll way, spam HoTs, and top off their (barely damaged) health meters, laughing all the way.

From a melee DPS perspective, the only way I'll ever kill a Scouperative healer is if another of their critical heals requires a cast timer (and therefore becomes interruptible) and if that darned roll gets AT LEAST an 8-second cooldown.

Not a theorycrafter, so take my ideas with a ton of sodium chloride and tune your flamethrowers down a bit before you unload on me.

SlightlySychotic's Avatar


SlightlySychotic
09.13.2013 , 12:50 PM | #22
I brought up a similar idea in this thread. It went over about as well as this one is. "No, if you nerf me at all you completely break healing!" "You can't do anything to healing until mercs are fixed!" And, of course, my personal favorite: "I'm not overpowered, everyone else just sucks!"

But let's start off small. We all pretty much agree that Scoperatives need to get hit with the nerf stick hard. So let's start slow: if you shorten flash bang's mez duration to the same length as awe, you significantly bring scops in line with the other classes. Because there's just no reason for a class to have a CC that has the same duration as whirlwind, is AoE, ranged, AND instantaneous, especially when they already have a stealth escape and now a dash.
Darth Sychotic: (Sith Juggernaut) "Whatever does not kill you has failed and must be made to pay egregiously for its error."
Kaz Keeno: (Scoundrel) "One day I hope we can just move on and put this whole 'trying-to-kill-me' nonsense behind us."

General_Aldo's Avatar


General_Aldo
09.13.2013 , 12:54 PM | #23
I hate how a lot of dps think they are the best. And then blame the healer, since it can't possibly be the dps at fault.

Does healing need looking into? Sure. Do we need to punish all 3 healing classes? No.

People need to realize they aren't as good as they think
Bornsteller - Combat Medic
LÍvi - Carnage Marauder
King of Pugs Legacy

RodneyMcNeely's Avatar


RodneyMcNeely
09.13.2013 , 01:36 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by General_Aldo View Post
I hate how a lot of dps think they are the best. And then blame the healer, since it can't possibly be the dps at fault.

Does healing need looking into? Sure. Do we need to punish all 3 healing classes? No.
Couldn't agree more. I think the Scouperative healers' ability to facetank while insta-casting and staying mobile are the real culprit here, leading to insane cross-heals simply because you can't catch the guy (even when slowed).

Zerogates's Avatar


Zerogates
09.13.2013 , 02:41 PM | #25
I have never felt balanced as a Merc healer nor a Scoundrel healer, and until I play a sage/sorc to max level I cannot comment on them. Either I am just a pure bad *** when it comes to healing, or it really does offer too much utility and power to a team in my opinion.

Why shouldn't I die in a 1 v 1 fight just because I am a healer? It makes no sense to me why people think healers should be powerful enough that not even the best DPS are balanced if they can kill me without more than 1 person. Do we need more glass cannons to balance this out or will healers never be satisfied with anything less than immortality against typical players?


Just a side note but there are two aspects to balancing classes, balance based on the average or balanced based on the maximum. As it stands, I think players feel healers should be balanced around the average with their own strength while the DPS that attack them should be balanced around the maximum. A bit ridiculous if you ask me. Players are not perfect, but its damn easy to play a healer very well while the same can't be said for the DPS trying to kill them.

FalmeseReb's Avatar


FalmeseReb
09.13.2013 , 05:29 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by RodneyMcNeely View Post
This. ^^^^^ A million times over.

My main is a Vigilance Guardian, and I LOVE 1v1 encounters. I feel that Vigilance/Vengeance are very well-balanced for 1v1. If I play intelligently, I can win. If I get outplayed, I'll lose, and that seems about right. I like that my spec has a hard counter in Gunslingers/Snipers, but if my timing is right (particularly with Saber Ward, Resolute, and Saber Reflect), I still stand a good chance of beating them. I find it only moderately difficult to beat Sage/Sorcerer/Commando/Mercenary healers; it really comes down to judicious interrupting, good positioning, and lining up DoTs and burst.

However, against a Scoundrel/Operative healer that hasn't been lobotomized, I stand no chance whatsoever. The entire fight consists of me doing my damned level best to close the gap, apply as much CC/damage as I can in that short window, keep Freezing Force applied, then watching helplessly as they roll way, spam HoTs, and top off their (barely damaged) health meters, laughing all the way.

From a melee DPS perspective, the only way I'll ever kill a Scouperative healer is if another of their critical heals requires a cast timer (and therefore becomes interruptible) and if that darned roll gets AT LEAST an 8-second cooldown.

Not a theorycrafter, so take my ideas with a ton of sodium chloride and tune your flamethrowers down a bit before you unload on me.

have you ever stopped to think that maybe your class just isn't supposed to be able to 1 v 1 everything and win?
Furthermore, unless you're really bad and playing a really good scoundrel 1 v 1 you can easily lock them down as vigi guard. I do it all the time on my guardian. you just need to know when to interrupt and when to pop master strike (when they start to cast and you have kick on CD)

FalmeseReb's Avatar


FalmeseReb
09.13.2013 , 05:33 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by SlightlySychotic View Post
I brought up a similar idea in this thread. It went over about as well as this one is. "No, if you nerf me at all you completely break healing!" "You can't do anything to healing until mercs are fixed!" And, of course, my personal favorite: "I'm not overpowered, everyone else just sucks!"

But let's start off small. We all pretty much agree that Scoperatives need to get hit with the nerf stick hard. So let's start slow: if you shorten flash bang's mez duration to the same length as awe, you significantly bring scops in line with the other classes. Because there's just no reason for a class to have a CC that has the same duration as whirlwind, is AoE, ranged, AND instantaneous, especially when they already have a stealth escape and now a dash.
lol why is it that whenever scoundrels are slightly above average at something everyone cries so hard to get them nerfed? Flashbang has a 10m range btw.

Shakhaar's Avatar


Shakhaar
09.13.2013 , 06:28 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by discoklaus View Post
this was the most stupid post i ever read. thanks
No, he is correct. A good DPS player of any AC can lock down, if not kill a healer. I've played several matches where my team had more heals, yet we did not win because the DPS players, namely smashers wrecked healers standing too close to eachother.

I suppose I should go "whaaa nerf smash booohooo it affects 90% of wz outcomes", but it's not really that, the healers just shouldn't have stacked so close: a player skill issue really. And those can't be solved by nerfing whatever it is that owns you, since something else will always come up and be absolutely overpowered from your perspective.

Ultimately it doesn't really affect anyone if you pick the QQ path rather than the "learn-to-play-your-class" path, but you might find it more rewarding than waiting months for buffs and nerfs.

Phrase's Avatar


Phrase
09.13.2013 , 06:30 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Capt_Beers View Post
I love when people start "Healing Needs a Nerf" threads and then just whine about Scoundrels.
To be fair, theyre the only healers in wzs.

Sixgun
The Bastion

Phrase's Avatar


Phrase
09.13.2013 , 06:32 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by discoklaus View Post
its the only healers you see.

the amount of sorc/sage and commando/merc heals i have seen tends to 0. why would anybody play a merc or a sage if you get a way better healer with a scoundrel.

still i think that there needs to be a better healing debuff. i dont mind if i and 3 other dps die while attacking the healer, as long as we can take him out. but with the amount of survivability and resource management the scoundrels have + guard it is almost impossible to kill him before all 4 of us die
So really your thread is a nerf ops/ scoundrels thread in stealth mode.

Sixgun
The Bastion