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Bioware AUSTIN has some PR issues right now.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Bioware AUSTIN has some PR issues right now.
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Aries_cz's Avatar


Aries_cz
08.26.2013 , 03:28 AM | #21
About the "No PvP content, because they are happy just to kill someone", I think you are interpreting it wrong (perception problem ). If I understood how they meant it, it was that PvP by definition has much lower "decay rate", as every fight can be different. That does not apply to PvE, where there are often only one or two ways how to clear that content, and once you clear it, it is the same...
They did not say "No more PvP content", but that there is greater need to release more PvE content, because it is consumed much faster.
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Aries_cz's Avatar


Aries_cz
08.26.2013 , 03:34 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyMcGee View Post
I don't see what is wrong with BW's answers. People keep quoting the "heal to full", but that seemed like a reasonable point to me.

And the answer didn't seem condescending or rude. If you ask a question, you may not get the answer you want. BW never promised to agree with the community on everything. It's still their game and they can balance the classes as they think best.
Healing to Full while specced as healer is fine, no one is objecting to that. But, DPS specced Sages/Sorcs have very weak heals that need to be cast or have long cooldowns, which significantly lowers the amount of DPS they can do, thus hitting enrage timers or simply getting gang raped in PvP.
In comparison to other Heal/DPS hybrid classes (Operative/Merc) they have very little in terms of survivability, while not having greater DPS output. People say they would be fine with having glass cannon survivability, if they actually had the damage output of glass cannon.
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LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
08.26.2013 , 03:40 AM | #23
Rage in the PVP community. Hey, a neat new saying is something....heal to full.

I could say another.

PVP in MMOs is not PVP.

tensaix's Avatar


tensaix
08.26.2013 , 03:51 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
Healing to Full while specced as healer is fine, no one is objecting to that. But, DPS specced Sages/Sorcs have very weak heals that need to be cast or have long cooldowns, which significantly lowers the amount of DPS they can do, thus hitting enrage timers or simply getting gang raped in PvP.
In all seriousness, there isn't any major issue for healing dps class, it's all about positioning, los, using your cd (force barrier/wave/stun/cc) at the right time to increase your survibility in PvP situation. It is more difficult when you are getting chased my 3 marauders, but it's same for all the other class, when you have multiple opponents, you are going to struggle, even if you are the best PvPers. You might be able to take on 3 at the same time if all those 3ppl who are attacking you are noobs.
My sage dps is on par with gunlsinger so I have no idea why you will be hitting enrage timer unless you have a vanguard dps with you.

Quote:
In comparison to other Heal/DPS hybrid classes (Operative/Merc) they have very little in terms of survivability, while not having greater DPS output. People say they would be fine with having glass cannon survivability, if they actually had the damage output of glass cannon.
Operative/Scoundrel have the highest survibility out of all the healing class. My 36k hp scoundrel/Operative never dies in WZ unless I'm targeted by at least 4ppl. Scoundrel have the best burst hl and when your instant hl crits for 6.5k+, shield probe, dodge and scamper. Your HP will rarely go down.
Radix malorum est EA

Glumish's Avatar


Glumish
08.26.2013 , 03:51 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Rage in the PVP community.
The funny thing is that people who do PvE complain far more.

What happens when you've done your raids and dungeons in a MMO? You complain that you need more, and more, and more. The MMO industry has to churn out raid after raid and dungeon after dungeon and never manages to satisfy its playerbase. Until it gets to the point where many people can't catch up, then you complain that the grind is too hard and too long.

PvPers don't have that issue with the game, they just want balance and the ability to enjoy PvP.

Quote:
Hey, a neat new saying is something....heal to full.

I could say another.

PVP in MMOs is not PVP.
Here you go, devaluing your own ignorant opinion. Guess what, PvP in MMOs is PvP. Just because your PvP skill level is still at the Call of Duty stage doesn't make what you said any bit true. PvPers have just as much of a right to complain as anyone else, and the fact, is, the PvE community dismisses any valid PvP complaint because "herpderp pvpers are st00pid lulz."
Quote: Originally Posted by jedip_enguin View Post
However, the fanboys in here are already so excited if they fart they will jump to lightspeed themselves, so if I may I offer some sage words of advice...

Check your expectations.

Kamansus's Avatar


Kamansus
08.26.2013 , 04:01 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by tensaix View Post
Only class that is currently broken is Vanguard/Pyro as a dps. While other tank specced class such as Guardian/Jugg, Shadow/Assassin can contribute as dps in ops and pvp aspect while vanguard/pyro dps is non-existant. Dev. failing to acknowledge this issue clearly tells me that they haven't played as a dps vanguard.
It doesn't really bother me since I only use Vanguard as a tank, but It's still hilarious to see "working as intended" response from dev.
But they aren't saying that vanguard is "working as intended". They acknowledged that it is lacking in burst and overall dps and they they're working on it on the PTS. I don't see the problem with "Yeah, we're working on it" as a response. The "perception" comment people keep quoting is regarding utility options as a tank/dps class. They were saying that perception was a part of that because nobody was complaining about those abilities before VG/PT dps got nerfed, so once that was back up to par the issues people were having would probably fade away on their own.

I have no idea why sorcs are complaining. I'm seeing 2x lightning sorc teams stomp 2x smash monkey teams in arenas on the PTS, and even before that they were never far behind the FotM classes.

Aries_cz's Avatar


Aries_cz
08.26.2013 , 04:03 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by tensaix View Post
In all seriousness, there isn't any major issue for healing dps class, it's all about positioning, los, using your cd (force barrier/wave/stun/cc) at the right time to increase your survibility in PvP situation. It is more difficult when you are getting chased my 3 marauders, but it's same for all the other class, when you have multiple opponents, you are going to struggle, even if you are the best PvPers. You might be able to take on 3 at the same time if all those 3ppl who are attacking you are noobs.
My sage dps is on par with gunlsinger so I have no idea why you will be hitting enrage timer unless you have a vanguard dps with you.

Operative/Scoundrel have the highest survibility out of all the healing class. My 36k hp scoundrel/Operative never dies in WZ unless I'm targeted by at least 4ppl. Scoundrel have the best burst hl and when your instant hl crits for 6.5k+, shield probe, dodge and scamper. Your HP will rarely go down.
If your DPS is on par with gunslinger, then gratz, TORParse statistics are not so optimistic. Great sage can be equal to good gunslinger, the other way around is next to impossible. Healing to Full while DPSing is impossible, as that cuts down your DPS output.
Also, Gunslinger simply has much higher survivability in form of instant defensive cooldowns (shield probe, scrambling field etc, not sure about all their goodies) and periodic heals from being in cover, using probes, etc. So you see, the disparity is there.
As for Scoundrel survivability, that was my point exactly, sorry I worded it poorly so that you got the opposite meaning from it. Scoundrel has much easier time healing to full while doing crapload of damage.
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tensaix's Avatar


tensaix
08.26.2013 , 04:20 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
If your DPS is on par with gunslinger, then gratz, TORParse statistics are not so optimistic. Great sage can be equal to good gunslinger, the other way around is next to impossible. Healing to Full while DPSing is impossible, as that cuts down your DPS output.
Also, Gunslinger simply has much higher survivability in form of instant defensive cooldowns (shield probe, scrambling field etc, not sure about all their goodies) and periodic heals from being in cover, using probes, etc. So you see, the disparity is there.
Sage have bubble (absorbs 6k+ dmg), wave (roots target for 2sec), stun, barrier, speed, slow...these tools are available for sage/sorc to increase their survibility. In 1v1 situation you won't have trouble escaping or eliminating your opponent. The problem is that Sage community want to survive in 1v3 situation and claim that they need a buff. Rotate between bubble and your instant hl,that will still crit for 8k+ even with dps spec.

Quote:
As for Scoundrel survivability, that was my point exactly, sorry I worded it poorly so that you got the opposite meaning from it. Scoundrel has much easier time healing to full while doing crapload of damage.
Scoundrel don't get instant heal if you are not hlr specced so they only have 2 types of healing skills. You have to sacrifice some of healing if you want to dps, you can't have both ways. Imagine having a character that have dps prowess like a gunslinger/sniper with all the healing abilities. Every single people will play that character.
Radix malorum est EA

Izorii's Avatar


Izorii
08.26.2013 , 04:20 AM | #29
My guess is your lucky if your questions get answered first. The last couple of classes will probably get an answer along the lines of "Just stop moaning, we know you think your class is under powered, everyone thinks there class is under powered we just don't care any more. We thought this class rep idea was cool and would stop people thinking we don't listen, turns out all its show is even when we do listen we don't care. Ask us about fluff and you might get an answer that is more than we don't care."

I assume they must have known what questions they would get but maybe not. I assumed they must have known that players would get to max level in 2 weeks but this seemed like a shock to them and they thought they would have 6 months to add some end game content.

Aries_cz's Avatar


Aries_cz
08.26.2013 , 04:41 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by tensaix View Post
Sage have bubble (absorbs 6k+ dmg), wave (roots target for 2sec), stun, barrier, speed, slow...these tools are available for sage/sorc to increase their survibility. In 1v1 situation you won't have trouble escaping or eliminating your opponent. The problem is that Sage community want to survive in 1v3 situation and claim that they need a buff. Rotate between bubble and your instant hl,that will still crit for 8k+ even with dps spec.
Bubble holds maybe one smash from marauder, and triggers GCD and 20sec immunity to it.
Wave does not knock Marauder out of Obliterate range.
Barrier is a 10sec self-stun during which you must have a good team to notice, throw you a heal or come help (so not a PUG).
Speed is easily rooted, unless you are specced as healer. In comparison to Hydraulic Override of BH or rolling of Agents (both break stuns and grant immunity baseline), that is laughable.
Depending on the small chance that instant heal once per 30 seconds (that triggers GCD) will crit is not a good tactic, as currently critical rating is a "do not want" stat on any class.
We do not ask to be able to survive 1v3, we just want to be on par with other classes.

Quote:
Scoundrel don't get instant heal if you are not hlr specced so they only have 2 types of healing skills. You have to sacrifice some of healing if you want to dps, you can't have both ways. Imagine having a character that have dps prowess as a gunslinger/sniper with all the healing abilities. Every single people will play that character.
My point was that Healer specced operative has higher survivability and can do larger damage than healer specced sage while still doing higher heals and not having resource problems (no sacrificing health for resource).

Back to gunslinger/sniper, to my knowledge, they have at least two heals, one passive while in cover (so basically all the time) and one for detonating their EMP Discharge (does not trigger GCD). So they do not need to stop doing damage or waste GCD while healing.
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