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Plz make tankasins not suck


Prototypemind's Avatar


Prototypemind
08.18.2013 , 11:46 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by theUndead View Post
This is the last time i'm saying this. The class is NOT broken for goodness sake. If you bothered to read some of the replies you would have seen a poster who said they run NIM mode with 2 shadows and they SUCCEED so please quit saying that the class is broken or that you can't tank with a SIn because in the hands of a good player than can be used just fine.
You can say whatever you like: there are multiple multi-page threads dedicated to aspects of this in the Sin section of the forums with guild players who run both Jugg and Sin tanks, myself included. My less geared Jugg does not experience the same health spikes in 55HM that my full 69+, augged Sin does. Dropped out of nowhere then took a 20K+ crit from the decepticon in S&V. Sins are either invincible or made out of paper and even very competent heals are taxed at times keeping us up. Force shroud one, does not work everywhere, and two has a long cooldown for a reason even when it does work. Despite managing buffs, relics, and abilities a Sin tank is noticeably more prone to health drops out of nowhere than a Jugg.

I love my Sin in most aspects and how easy he is to hold aggro with, but Juggs are far more advantageous for most situations. Aside from kiting parties like Off-tanking on Xeno my Jugg is far less work to keep up for both myself and the healer(s) all day, everyday.

theUndead's Avatar


theUndead
08.19.2013 , 02:57 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Prototypemind View Post
You can say whatever you like: there are multiple multi-page threads dedicated to aspects of this in the Sin section of the forums with guild players who run both Jugg and Sin tanks, myself included. My less geared Jugg does not experience the same health spikes in 55HM that my full 69+, augged Sin does. Dropped out of nowhere then took a 20K+ crit from the decepticon in S&V. Sins are either invincible or made out of paper and even very competent heals are taxed at times keeping us up. Force shroud one, does not work everywhere, and two has a long cooldown for a reason even when it does work. Despite managing buffs, relics, and abilities a Sin tank is noticeably more prone to health drops out of nowhere than a Jugg.

I love my Sin in most aspects and how easy he is to hold aggro with, but Juggs are far more advantageous for most situations. Aside from kiting parties like Off-tanking on Xeno my Jugg is far less work to keep up for both myself and the healer(s) all day, everyday.
I know that Juggs are prefered tanks has defensive cooldowns are second to none. All I was saying is that to say that the class is completely useless is absolutely untrue because as I have said they CAN be effective despite their spikeyness. But saying all that I know they have their issues and they are harder to heal it's just I don't like to be told that tanking on my Sin is useless.
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
As theUndead mentioned, I can't exactly spell out all of our policies in depth, but that should hopefully cover your concerns.

msfyoung's Avatar


msfyoung
08.19.2013 , 03:53 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Toweleeeie View Post
Someone hasn't played NiM TFB... One of our tanks had to reroll a guardian before we could down the 1st boss, but we are stuck on the dread guards now.
Shadows/sins are the best tanks for TWH/DG nim. They have issues, but they sure as hell aren't with those fights.

mmjarec's Avatar


mmjarec
08.19.2013 , 03:56 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by shadowrouge View Post
So your saying a light armor DPS should dps as well as a medium dps. Ok I'llgive you that. But a light armor tank should not tank as well as a HEAVY armor tank. And should not have as little HP lose. The heavy armor either counts for something or just remove armor all together.
Seeing how tanking is about more than just armor you cam have higher armor and higher mitigation thats fine. Just because somehow you THINK for some reason your class should tank better than mine. Why exactly is that. I dont care how its accomplished but my tank should be JUST as viable as yours

This "my class should be a better tank cuz i have heavy armor" is bullshart. You SHOULD NOT be a bette tank but equivalent. Sin tanks should NOT have a harder time doing the same thing because that reduces their effectivity

And the other guy its funny "your friends" can tank nightmare fine has no merit. My friends this that. I am a tank i have done it. Your friend should be posting not first hand. Try it before you go talking about somethi g youve seen or heard

I HAVE tried it and they ARENT as good i dont need someones second hand i heard whatever crap. You speak from a position of ignorance unless youve done it yourself. I have a jug and a sin

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
08.19.2013 , 05:26 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by theUndead View Post
This is the last time i'm saying this. The class is NOT broken for goodness sake. If you bothered to read some of the replies you would have seen a poster who said they run NIM mode with 2 shadows and they SUCCEED so please quit saying that the class is broken or that you can't tank with a SIn because in the hands of a good player than can be used just fine.
This is incorrect. The issues with sin tanks are real and proven. It has been demonstrated to be true. I suggest that anyone who disagrees go over to a site like Elitistjerks and look at the numbers posted from their research.
May the Schwartz be with you....

Drudenfusz's Avatar


Drudenfusz
08.19.2013 , 06:18 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Toweleeeie View Post
Someone hasn't played NiM TFB... One of our tanks had to reroll a guardian before we could down the 1st boss, but we are stuck on the dread guards now.
Okay, if you say so... I am not a raider, from a PvP perspective I am fine with my shadow tank.
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mmjarec's Avatar


mmjarec
08.19.2013 , 09:05 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Drudenfusz View Post
Okay, if you say so... I am not a raider, from a PvP perspective I am fine with my shadow tank.
Thanks for posting that you are fine with things not mentioned as issues but try a nightmare tfb before you say all is well about something you admittedly have no experience with

Again. Tank seems the only viable way to pvp and that is obviously broken as well since tank was ment to be a pve spec and sins primary function was always dps and at that bot pve and pvp are substandard

Envyyyyyyy's Avatar


Envyyyyyyy
08.19.2013 , 09:29 AM | #28
In Nightmare Ops content Shadow/Sin take dmg too "Spikey" compared to the other 2 options.. It causes the healer to have to watch you and focus on you too much..
Jugg/Guard Vanguard/PT take dmg a lot more smooth.. not has many big quick hits. This doesn't mean they're broken.. but they are at a point to where even fully min/maxed with a great player they won't be as effective as the other 2 options. The top high end progression guilds have switched over to Vanguard/Guard tanks now.

As for DPS.. Mid tree in PVP is a monster. A lot of people are playing it at the moment, and a lot of them are bad lol, but some of us are able to use it correctly and burn through 2v1s.. even 3v1s such a versatile class.

However, now with arenas out they're showing their weakness again... It's be to run a guard/Vanguard In Arenas..

I'm sure this issue will be addressed in later patch notes/update.
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tman_ac's Avatar


tman_ac
08.19.2013 , 09:35 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Toweleeeie View Post
Someone hasn't played NiM TFB... One of our tanks had to reroll a guardian before we could down the 1st boss, but we are stuck on the dread guards now.
Assasins have their flaws, but in several boss fights they are just superior:

- TfB NiM first boss: Vanish after tank switch and you won't receive any small adds so dps can focus on jealous male and then go back to the boss again.
- TfB NiM seconds boss: If you have force leech and you are low on health just vanish from the fight and use your class recovery and you can heal up to 100% even with the debuff
- SV NiM 2nd boss: Resist the dmg from the huge grenade

And overall you can use loads of medpacks in a fight whenever your vanish from fight is up.

I play a Vanguard tank in NiM progression on Republic side and an Assassin on Imperial. I like them both. My VG is however a little bit more relaxing as I am not that much dependent on RNG while I overall just love to play my assa tank.

If you are a skilled Assa tank you can clear TfB Nightmare. If you do not know your class it may be hard.

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mmjarec's Avatar


mmjarec
08.19.2013 , 09:49 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Envyyyyyyy View Post
In Nightmare Ops content Shadow/Sin take dmg too "Spikey" compared to the other 2 options.. It causes the healer to have to watch you and focus on you too much..
Jugg/Guard Vanguard/PT take dmg a lot more smooth.. not has many big quick hits. This doesn't mean they're broken.. but they are at a point to where even fully min/maxed with a great player they won't be as effective as the other 2 options. The top high end progression guilds have switched over to Vanguard/Guard tanks now.

As for DPS.. Mid tree in PVP is a monster. A lot of people are playing it at the moment, and a lot of them are bad lol, but some of us are able to use it correctly and burn through 2v1s.. even 3v1s such a versatile class.

However, now with arenas out they're showing their weakness again... It's be to run a guard/Vanguard In Arenas..

I'm sure this issue will be addressed in later patch notes/update.
Im not arguing mid tree damage isnt good it just doesnt matter because you are dead. Oh wait yes i am i see other classes with better dos and hgher survivability. Middle tree is not a monster and you cant say all you need is a healer becuz any class is a monster with a pocket healer and obviously you have little raid knowledge or youd realize the more time healers spend focusing on spikey tank hp is less focus they have overall elsewhere and that affects the whole raid. Its not just the spikey hps its the fact we have less mitigation and have nothing to compensate for it with. Intercede is exceptionally useful. A spikey hp bar is the tip of the iceberg. You can argue all you want with no proof on the side that its as viable as jugg tank but all i have to do is point to the numbers based statistical facts on sites like elitist jerks and its obvious there is a disparity. Theres no reason sin should be harder to tank with and worse at it.

Sure some differential in defense numbers are fine if they would be made up for in the way of other avenues of viability but there arent