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Marauder class representative questions/discussion thread.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sith Warrior > Marauder
Marauder class representative questions/discussion thread.

Maelael's Avatar


Maelael
08.19.2013 , 03:42 PM | #181
Quote: Originally Posted by MarkXXIV View Post
Maybe if there were more exciting objectives like destroying bases but the wz we have now aren't that great objective wise. I and probably most players enjoy racking up kills/dmg much more than they enjoy playing the objectives.

More challenging? Can you explain this please, this doesn't make any sense to me. I think Most people agree that deathmatch is more challenging than objectives where you can get dominated and still win by stopping caps. Deathmatch is about your skill with the spec you play and teamwork. Objectives in this game are less about combat and more about holding nodes or hutball.

A lot of games have death match because you can't get anymore pvp than that.

That's a balance issue. In 8v8 you as the individual and your spec have less of an impact on the outcome of the match which is why people get away with playing underpowered specs. The devs should do their jobs and balance the game. Players should not want bigger teams and a game mode that's not combat focused as a substitute for better balance.

You are joking right?

yeah except the tactics don't focus on combat they focus on stuff more related to pve than pvp.

Everything gets boring without change, I disagree completely. Top ranked players might have a stake in 8v8 but I think arena is a much better game mode. I would love to have 8v8 deathmatch and objective ranked but I feel 4v4 deathmatch is more important to pvp than any 8v8 game mode.
Wow. You really need to get out and play some more competitive PvP man. You're missing like, 90% of the world the rest of us who do, get nightly.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge. There is no fear; there is power.
I am the heart of the Force. I am the revealing fire of light. I am the mystery of darkness.
In balance with chaos and harmony, Immortal in the Force.

MarkXXIV's Avatar


MarkXXIV
08.20.2013 , 01:21 AM | #182
Quote: Originally Posted by Maelael View Post
Wow. You really need to get out and play some more competitive PvP man. You're missing like, 90% of the world the rest of us who do, get nightly.
Was this supposed to mean something? edit and repost when you are sober.
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Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
08.20.2013 , 02:16 AM | #183
The only question maras and juggs for that matter should be asking is: How come we haven't had a much deserved nerf?

It absolutely makes me laugh that you guys even think you have any legitimate complaints having ridden the top the the OP wave for so long.
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Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
08.20.2013 , 02:22 AM | #184
Quote: Originally Posted by Gudarzz View Post
Carnage:
- Gore becomes a static buff until a damaging attack (or any other ability?) is performed and the 4.5s countdown begins. In other words, gore stays up until you start attacking again. This resolves operation boss knockback issues and gives better pvp viability for carnage. It also adds an additional level of skill when it comes to countering a carnage marauder, as any class with a knockback will have to selectively use cooldowns instead of spamming them upon engagement to deny a gore buff. (i.e. knocking back based on the assumption the mara has gore vs. knocking back when the mara actually has gore)
This is a very nice suggestion, I like it.

I am not sure how much I am eligible to comment on carnage mara, but I have been playing one for ages and these days I feel somewhat mediocre in terms of damage output. However, I suspect it is at least partly due to gear issues.
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Daystarr's Avatar


Daystarr
08.20.2013 , 06:35 AM | #185
Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
This is a very nice suggestion, I like it.

I am not sure how much I am eligible to comment on carnage mara, but I have been playing one for ages and these days I feel somewhat mediocre in terms of damage output. However, I suspect it is at least partly due to gear issues.
Or make Gore like Carnage's Berserk and have like 3-4 stacks of 100% armor penetration that is reduced by 1 per gcd spent?
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DraydeRhionnan's Avatar


DraydeRhionnan
08.20.2013 , 08:37 AM | #186
Bringing some points together here for discussion...:

Quote:
Annihilation:
I absolutely wanted to reserve the "pvp" question for this spec, as it seems to be a very reliable, "cut and dry" PVE spec for marauders. There is no question that the spec underperforms in rated pvp. At times, I feel like the spec is confused with itself: Is it truly a dot class despite the limited output of bleeds and weakness to cleanse? Or is it a burst spec that constantly struggles to keep the expensive and demanding annihilator buff? In terms of available specs, marauders and snipers are the only classes with 3 dps specs. Every other class has the option to serve in either the tank or healer role. Snipers are provided with a high "utility" engineering spec. So what do we do with annihilation? Should it mirror the utility of the engineering sniper as the "3rd" spec? Some primers for discussion (NOTE: Oofalong mentioned some of these ideas here):
- Duration of annihilator buff is increased. This is the cookie cutter solution, but offers great potential no doubt.
- Annihilate can cause bonus damage based on stacks of annihilator or other factors.
- Dots cannot be cleansed. Another commonly proposed solution, but no doubt very effective.
- Agonizing Sabers is altered so that it also affects healing. (Try dueling a skilled operative healer and tell me when it ends ).
- Dual saber throw is granted a utility characteristic, such as knocking snipers/operatives out of cover, etc.
Quote:
Watchman/Annihilation currently suffers from a very long ramp-up time and is severely punished for any downtime due to the Merciless/Annihilate stacking buff. This ramp-up makes the spec nearly unconscionable in competitive PvP, and the downtime penalties cause severe issues in both PvP and certain PvE encounters (such as Titan 6 or Dread Guard). Would it be possible to improve the ramp-up and downtime penalties in this area? Perhaps by talenting Valorous Call/Frenzy to build Merciless/Annihilate stacks. Another idea would be to decrement Merciless/Annihilate stacks upon expiry rather than removing them entirely.
Quote:
The stacking Annihilator/Merciless buff and the stacking buff from Juyo Form are both too short at their current 15 second durations. We will increase the duration of these buffs to give Marauders/Sentinels more time to get back into action before needing to start back up on their long entry ramp. As for a faster way to ramp up, we plan to give you something to help in this regard, but it will not be coming anytime soon. We may also experiment with decrementing the stacks on expiration, rather than removing all of them at once, but we cannot make any promises at this time that you will ever see it decrement stacks in the Live game.
Quote:
Annihilation/Watchman is intended to be the top sustained damage spec for Marauders/Sentinels, while Carnage/Combat is meant to be better sustained damage than Rage/Focus (but worse than Annihilation/Watchman) and better burst damage than Annihilation/Watchman (but worse than Rage/Focus). As a result, the top damage over an extended period should go to Annihilation/Watchman. The top damage in a short fight should go to Rage/Focus. Carnage/Combat should hold its own in both situations, while not being the best at either think of its strength as versatility.

Alright, having quoted all that...

You say you're reserving your PVP question for Annihilation. I find this someone urking, because I feel Tam already did that. It's disappointing to think that both the Sentinel and the Marauder rep are both going to only discuss Watchman/Annihilation in a PVP sense, and not address it's PVE issues.

You call it a standard PVE class, but there's a problem - it's underperforming. Currently, the top Marauder/Sentinel DPS are all Combat/Carnage spec. These are from parses taken over sustained fights - exactly where the devs, in answering Tam, said Annihilation/Watchman should be superior.

I feel like your concerns for Watchman were largely addressed in Tam's question, and thus I feel your annihilation question is redundant and largely unnecessary. You bring up some sense of utility, but I believe the devs made it rather clear what they expect this spec to be - I think it simply isn't performing in that intended manner, as it's parsing lower than a burst class that is intended to do less damage over time.

JediMasterSLC's Avatar


JediMasterSLC
08.20.2013 , 11:36 AM | #187
Quote: Originally Posted by Chemic_al View Post
The only question maras and juggs for that matter should be asking is: How come we haven't had a much deserved nerf?

It absolutely makes me laugh that you guys even think you have any legitimate complaints having ridden the top the the OP wave for so long.
You know, there are two other specs than smash, that are decidedly not riding the "riding the top [of] the OP wave".
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Gondolindhrim's Avatar


Gondolindhrim
08.20.2013 , 04:34 PM | #188
Quote: Originally Posted by Daystarr View Post
Or make Gore like Carnage's Berserk and have like 3-4 stacks of 100% armor penetration that is reduced by 1 per gcd spent?
I had the same thought, and the idea is growing on me.

Gore would grant 3 stacks, each of which would provide the next ability with 100% armor penetration. Ravage would consume 2 stacks, Retaliation would consume no stacks, everything else would consume 1.
The stacks would expire if not consumed within about 10 seconds (so you couldn't bank them and get a triple Gore window).
Total Gore stacks would be increased to 4 if used while under the effect of Berserk.

The biggest potential problem I see with this option is Ataru Form, since the procs would lose the benefit of Gore. I believe this would be an acceptable trade-off in PvP however, and Carnage probably does a little too much damage in PvE right now anyway, considering the devs themselves stated that Annihilation is the intended top sustained DPS spec.
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CellPerfect's Avatar


CellPerfect
08.20.2013 , 04:53 PM | #189
Quote: Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim View Post
I had the same thought, and the idea is growing on me.

Gore would grant 3 stacks, each of which would provide the next ability with 100% armor penetration. Ravage would consume 2 stacks, Retaliation would consume no stacks, everything else would consume 1.
The stacks would expire if not consumed within about 10 seconds (so you couldn't bank them and get a triple Gore window).
Total Gore stacks would be increased to 4 if used while under the effect of Berserk.

The biggest potential problem I see with this option is Ataru Form, since the procs would lose the benefit of Gore. I believe this would be an acceptable trade-off in PvP however, and Carnage probably does a little too much damage in PvE right now anyway, considering the devs themselves stated that Annihilation is the intended top sustained DPS spec.
The only problem with changing gore in this way is that in PvP it would be extremely hard to counter. In PvE it would be a great change I think, but for PvP the only way to really counter gore is with a cc and making others be unable to counter us would be a little over powered. This is part of the reason that smash is so powerful, because there are few ways to counter a smash other than spreading out. Even so, they are still guaranteed a big hit. If we guarantee carnage 3 (give or take) buffed up hits, I feel that this would make the spec over powered.
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Gondolindhrim's Avatar


Gondolindhrim
08.20.2013 , 05:16 PM | #190
I wouldn't say it'd make it impossible to counter. CCing would still delay the burst, and potentially split it up into two smaller windows (e.g. Massacre > Vicious Throw > STUNNED > Massacre > Force Scream). CCing Rage spec only serves to delay the burst damage; CCing Carnage spec even after a potential Gore rework would be, at the least, as effective as CCing Rage is now.
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Syeeda, Operative | Circumspectus, Sniper | Freiya, Juggernaut | Zeyus, Marauder
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