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Marauder class representative questions/discussion thread.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Marauder class representative questions/discussion thread.

JediMasterSLC's Avatar


JediMasterSLC
08.03.2013 , 02:07 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by Avicii View Post
PTs and Madness Sorc/Sin can dot the crap outta everything and have good looking numbers at the end on the scoreboard but they are not desired in high end PvP.
Agree with your post, but if you say PTs are inherently inferior as far as design goes in competitive PVP then you probably didn't play ranked pre-2.0 hehe. Oh wait nevermind I thought you said "designed for", not "desired in"- I'm too lazy to rewrite post. But yeah pretty much....

Pearlie's Avatar


Pearlie
08.03.2013 , 03:48 PM | #102
Suggestion:

Take the Brutality talent (7.5% crit on Vicious Throw/Slash), and move it to the 5th tier of both the Vengeance and Carnage trees. (For Carnage replace Slash with Massacre, or remove the Slash part entirely if that would be considered OP and just up the crit on Throw to 10%). To compensate, make Rampage and Sever require only two points to reach 30%.

Smashers simply do not need the extra crit on those abilities, and the moving the Brutality talent out of the rage tree would help the middle trees for both Juggs and Maras synergize with themselves, because as of now they're struggling to do so.

Gudarzz's Avatar


Gudarzz
08.03.2013 , 09:47 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by oofalong View Post
While it may seem like semantics I was trying to organize around the concept of inopportune Gore windows. If this is the agreed underlying issues I think there are solutions in addition to what you first identified here, including:
  • Eliminating the Gore proc and reducing the CD of Ravage to 15s. This provides a more opportune Gore window.
  • Keep the Gore proc, but have it finish the CD on Ravage instead of freeing up Vicious Throw. This reduces the concerns around resource depleted Gore Windows.

I am sure there are other ideas as well. My purpose in posting on this concept of inopportune Gore windows was to hopefully get others to brainstorm on this.
I wanted to address your second idea first: Maintain gore proc and reset ravage instead of vicious throw. I think this might be a bit too much. With berserk, you could hypothetically (with some extra alacrity) fit 2 ravages into single gore, leaving another gore for a massacre + force scream combo. I can't comment on the exact change to dps parses (it would be higher no doubt), but it is easy to see that burst would be ridiculously unmatched. Take any detailed parse and replace vicious throw damage from slaughter procs and replace it with ravage damage. You will see my concern.

The first idea is interesting. It lines up abilities a lot better, as you essentially have a ravage for every gore. Compared to pre 2.0 carnage, this idea has some pros and cons. Pros: A ravage for almost every gore and a large window to proc the force scream auto-crit. Cons: Relatively less rage for massacres during the phases in between gores. This is arguable because you would probably use less massacres during gores (hence, using less rage) and have more rage saved for the non-gore windows. Also, what talent would reduce the ravage cooldown? Are we adding this to brooding, etc?

Either way, I appreciate these ideas because it brings up some new questions: In addition to my suggestions for gore RNG/protection, should slaughter proc something else? An auto crit execute? Free massacre? Let's explore this.

Quote: Originally Posted by oofalong View Post
You have responded/refuted many of my posts, but I didn't see any comment on this; I'd be interested to hear your perspectives.
I think we are in a unique position in terms of our spec viability. At the very minimum, we have 2 specs that are viable in both the PVP and PVE worlds. Just ask a rated team to take juggernaut smash or mercenary heals! You can see the problems faced by other classes with this. I would generally agree with you that not every spec should be playable in every situation. Attempting to fight for the viability of the 3rd viable PVP/PVE spec is not a personal priority, but the community is somewhat concerned about this. Either way, KBN already addressed this by reserving the PVP question for annihilation and the PVE question for rage.
Marauder class representative
World first to /gquit <Hey im mvp>

CellPerfect's Avatar


CellPerfect
08.03.2013 , 10:22 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Gudarzz View Post
The first idea is interesting. It lines up abilities a lot better, as you essentially have a ravage for every gore. Compared to pre 2.0 carnage, this idea has some pros and cons. Pros: A ravage for almost every gore and a large window to proc the force scream auto-crit. Cons: Relatively less rage for massacres during the phases in between gores. This is arguable because you would probably use less massacres during gores (hence, using less rage) and have more rage saved for the non-gore windows. Also, what talent would reduce the ravage cooldown? Are we adding this to brooding, etc?
Seeing as this option would be getting rid of the gore reset, slaughter would have to be the talent to change. I'm guessing slaughter would be made in to a 3 point talent that would let you reduce the cool down of ravage by 5 seconds per point.

Quote:
Either way, I appreciate these ideas because it brings up some new questions: In addition to my suggestions for gore RNG/protection, should slaughter proc something else? An auto crit execute? Free massacre? Let's explore this.
I think an auto crit execute would be a little op (that would literally be about 16-18k in 2 gcds with the 2 auto crits). A crit increase to our execute wouldn't be too bad seeing as that is some huge burst when it crits. This would make our optimal gore windows a ravage > scream (or scream > ravage if you have berserk up) and a scream > execute > massacre.

If we do get any fixes for rage management I wouldn't mind seeing our 1 rage per 6 seconds brought back. I believe they got rid of this when 2.0 hit (Blood frenzy used to give us one rage per 6 seconds but now it just refunds one rage when we use force scream with its auto crit proc). I don't think we need a huge boost to rage management but a lot of people want something so I think this would be a good way to do it without making it super easy like rage.
Taelord
Sith Marauder
<Vicious>

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
08.04.2013 , 09:31 AM | #105
Gudarzz its me megapt from pot5. Joined mvp for a little while before 2.0 came out and now i play a bit casually with old friends.

Hey bro, im back to playing my old main the sentinal/marauder(play both at 55) I play carnage/combat exclusively as its my fav. Spec. My issue is their is no animation for the crit on force scream proc and i have to stare at buffs constantly. Also the proc to get the crit on force scream is so random and rng it can take forever.

Suggestion i have is take away some of the rng by having an ability build shockwaves like in rage before you get autocrit force scream so we can setup burst more consistently. An example would be every massacre or vicious slash (so its not broken for lowbies) gives your force scream an extra 33% chance to crit which consumes the buff as you use force scream. Or it could be every ataru proc gives you an extra 33% chance to crit force scream. It would streamline the rotation outside of execute procs.

I wont get into the execute proc as the issues with it and great suggestions have already been spoken about.

Go mvp, tell bestworld and bodies i said hey. Cheers.

Costello's Avatar


Costello
08.04.2013 , 11:06 AM | #106
Having been playing my Marauder a fair bit in PvP the most noticeable thing was the lack of marauders that seemed to PvP. It suggests that the class either isn't fun or isn't fun and isn't very good. I'm sure to a degree you can say learn to play though that doesn't help much.

I think a lot of this is because you spend a lot of time chasing people or running them down, which normally results in catching them and getting stunned or knocked back or routed or them just running through you so you have to turn so you can attack again. Making for a lot more work to do any dps as opposed to heat anything within 30 meters. And often this can be healed through due to the slow burst damage or use of DOTs that can be cleansed through. While there was the smash build this is the only real AOE option open to Marauders meaning for two builds we have single target dps that lacks the necessary burst damage to perform its role of out pacing a healers ability to keep someone up.

As glass canon's who have to get up close and personal and easily targetable and caught in AOE and often the wrong side of the battle lines to be hitting their healers we lack the stealth options other classes have, any self heals or cleanses or even much damage outside of 5 meters or if lacking the rage. Which makes life short for a marauder and it would be good if something could be done to assist us in PvP.

UncleOst's Avatar


UncleOst
08.04.2013 , 04:45 PM | #107
What ever happens, PLEASE do not make any changes to Ataru's 30% alacrity boost. I have whole-heartedly fallen in love with this ability.

Thank you and have a good day.

oofalong's Avatar


oofalong
08.05.2013 , 08:29 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Gudarzz View Post
I wanted to address your second idea first: Maintain gore proc and reset ravage instead of vicious throw. I think this might be a bit too much. With berserk, you could hypothetically (with some extra alacrity) fit 2 ravages into single gore, leaving another gore for a massacre + force scream combo. I can't comment on the exact change to dps parses (it would be higher no doubt), but it is easy to see that burst would be ridiculously unmatched. Take any detailed parse and replace vicious throw damage from slaughter procs and replace it with ravage damage. You will see my concern.
While I suppose you technically could fit most of two Ravages in a Gore proc, I am not sure how often it would really. The last two hits or Ravage are the biggest 2X the first four hits, and they happen at the end of the channel.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gudarzz View Post
The first idea is interesting. It lines up abilities a lot better, as you essentially have a ravage for every gore. Compared to pre 2.0 carnage, this idea has some pros and cons. Pros: A ravage for almost every gore and a large window to proc the force scream auto-crit. Cons: Relatively less rage for massacres during the phases in between gores. This is arguable because you would probably use less massacres during gores (hence, using less rage) and have more rage saved for the non-gore windows.
While it may sound boring, I think a consistent Gore window of Ravage + Force Scream would be pretty good. I think this has the added benefit of having a bit of range as well. Obviously, FS is 10m, and Ravage seems to continue to channel even as the target moves outside of melee range.

In any event, the purpose of the idea was to show that when the problem is looked at from a different perspective it can lead to new ideas. Incidentally, I like the idea - I think it was yours - around Gore giving your next three GCDs 100% armor penetration. That solves much of the inopportunity of Gore. I still think there are other good ideas out there though.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gudarzz View Post
Also, what talent would reduce the ravage cooldown? Are we adding this to brooding, etc?


Either way, I appreciate these ideas because it brings up some new questions: In addition to my suggestions for gore RNG/protection, should slaughter proc something else? An auto crit execute? Free massacre? Let's explore this.
My first thought is to change Slaughter so that each point invested in it reduces the CD on Ravage by 5s and dump the proc chance altogether. Personally, my hope for this spec is for it to clearly be the burst class. Over a 5m parse on the Dummy I would expect it to be behind Annihilation by ~5%. I feel safe in saying this because many of the boss fights and all of PvP have burst phases where it would become equal to or greater than Annihilation.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gudarzz View Post
Attempting to fight for the viability of the 3rd viable PVP/PVE spec is not a personal priority, but the community is somewhat concerned about this.
C'mon as class rep can't you convince them they are wrong

Other than Sniper, we are the only class with three DPS options and I really want each of them to be unique and specialized. I think they would all have a place, and it would increase the overall utility of the class as you can bring whatever type of DPS is needed in each situation.


Quote: Originally Posted by Gudarzz View Post
Either way, KBN already addressed this by reserving the PVP question for annihilation and the PVE question for rage.
We'll see how the Devs respond to these questions, but in the meantime hopefully we can continue to contemplate Carnage...
Oofalong | Oofawrong | Incendiari | Uriyah | Litlah & More
Repoofalong | Tuamara | Liolami & More
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You are correct Oofalong.

K_osss's Avatar


K_osss
08.05.2013 , 10:18 AM | #109
If nothing else I'm enjoying seeing cross class interaction in these threads. Lots of Sentinels in here and vice versa.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.05.2013 , 10:38 AM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by oofalong View Post
We'll see how the Devs respond to these questions, but in the meantime hopefully we can continue to contemplate Carnage...
I'm definitely looking forward to the Marauder questions. Despite dropping the question from my list, I really do like the idea of poking at Carnage a bit and seeing if we can resolve some of its annoyances.
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