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How to Balance the Tank/Heal Dynamic

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
How to Balance the Tank/Heal Dynamic

Cretinus's Avatar


Cretinus
07.20.2013 , 11:31 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by SOULCASTER View Post
... Commando's Single-Target Healing just simply is NOT good at keeping 8 people alive at once, like sage and scoundrel is ....
The question here is rather whether one single healer should at all be able to keep 8 people alive. At the end it's not the commando healer who needs a buff, but the other two who need a nerf. The sorc a little one and the operative... well, the operative is a joke in PvP, he'd probably need a complete new design rather than only a massive nerf.
nerf operatives

SpaniardInfinity's Avatar


SpaniardInfinity
07.20.2013 , 11:59 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by JohnElias View Post
You all say a competent healer/tank is unkillable, but a competent DPS force is capable of eventually killing the healer, and then the tank, people just don't always know how to counter an Opscound healer, or how it works.
If multiple DPS hit their burst nearly simultaneously (ie. under a second) with multiple high crits before they can react, it doesn't matter what class they are, they are dead. There is no surviving that kind of damage unless you telegraph who you're about to attack or the healer/tank happened to intervene at just the right second (e.g. stunning one of the attackers right before the brunt of the damage).

Quote: Originally Posted by Cretinus View Post
The question here is rather whether one single healer should at all be able to keep 8 people alive. At the end it's not the commando healer who needs a buff, but the other two who need a nerf. The sorc a little one and the operative... well, the operative is a joke in PvP, he'd probably need a complete new design rather than only a massive nerf.
This is something that has distinctly happened since 2.0 -- there is much more frequency in solo-healing warzones. I do it at once or twice a day, and I'm a Combat Medic, ie. the class with the worst chance to solo heal a warzone.

As for nerfing the other healers, Sage I think are in a fair place. They are healing glass cannons and suitably they can also put up stupid high numbers. I won't be putting money on it, but Scoundrel is due at the very least an energy resource nerf. The question really is how much further they go -- when it comes to class balance, Bioware either 1) overkill nerfs a class or 2) buffs the class for no apparent reason. For all we know Scoundrel will have Electro Net and Rescue in 2.4.
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
07.20.2013 , 12:15 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by SpaniardInfinity View Post
IThe question really is how much further they go -- when it comes to class balance, Bioware either 1) overkill nerfs a class or 2) buffs the class for no apparent reason. For all we know Scoundrel will have Electro Net and Rescue in 2.4.
ha! I lul'd heartily. <3 Aux. where are you playing these days?
meh
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

JohnElias's Avatar


JohnElias
07.20.2013 , 12:36 PM | #24
I'm mostly a Concealment Operative, but I do heal on rare occasions and excel at it. The one thing that needs to be looked at for the Operative healer is the way Tactical Advantage (TA) procs, in its current state, and pre2.0, an Opscound healer could have an endless proc of TA by putting a Kolto Probe on EVERY teammate, this HoT will help support the ENTIRE team, as well as INCREASE our chance to get a Surgical Probe (which can crit for over 4K for me [Min/Maxed Op]). I admit, it's a little unfair that one healer can support an entire team like that. I've done it multiple times in Warzones since I am the only healer every once in a while. It is ridiculous, but it's the truth at the moment. This TA proc will then let me Surgical probe teammates as they take damage, not to mention flipping from teammate to teammate who is below 30% and keeping them up. It's definitely not a nerf that we need, but a complete relook at the way TA procs, imo. I don't want to see my class nerfed, but I admit it is extremely effective right now.

Asturias's Avatar


Asturias
07.20.2013 , 01:09 PM | #25
There is no solution to fix this combo while Bolster is in place because players will find ways to boost max stats through this failed system.

This is the hole reason why progression PvP works, it keeps people from exploiting PvP at end game and keeps a check and balance on classes through progression.

This is the reason why healers run rampant with tanks and DPS lacks so bad in this game.
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Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
07.20.2013 , 09:04 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Asturias View Post
There is no solution to fix this combo while Bolster is in place because players will find ways to boost max stats through this failed system.

This is the hole reason why progression PvP works, it keeps people from exploiting PvP at end game and keeps a check and balance on classes through progression.

This is the reason why healers run rampant with tanks and DPS lacks so bad in this game.
Every bolster exploit to date has revovled around boosting bonus damage, which does nothing for tanks but does wonders for dps.

@OP
Killing healers should be about your team's ability to use CC and focused burst, it should be not be because your class has a I WIN button every min thirty. Not to mention doing so would mean ranked teams would just stack whatever class, rendering healers and tanks pointless, and wins would just become dps Zergs.
Crinn
Trooper Hunter

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kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
07.20.2013 , 09:16 PM | #27
How to 'Balance(= which actually means 'make it easier for me to kill') the Tank/Heal Dynamic:

1. Apply slow or movement impairment of some kind to the tank and the healer

2. Push the tank to one side, pull the healer to the other

3. Focus on the healer until the tank comes back healer.

4. Rinse and repeat.

5. Problem easily solved on the current tactical level.
"90% of PvP complaints come from people that are thoroughly unqualified to comment about anything in the first place. Stop assuming that you are a good player, then an answer will come; why you die so often, why you are CCd so often, and why you complain about healers so often - You're simply a bad player. Harsh truth."

Helig's Avatar


Helig
07.21.2013 , 12:21 AM | #28
I'm strongly against any form of"balancing" which involves giving 1-2 classes what essentially is a hard counter to a wide-spread, overtuned mechanic.
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
How to 'Balance(= which actually means 'make it easier for me to kill') the Tank/Heal Dynamic:
I generally don't disagree with your posts, but this one seems to be the perfect conditions "spheric horse in a vacuum" middle school physics absurdity level.
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nitroyoshi's Avatar


nitroyoshi
07.21.2013 , 12:54 AM | #29
give power techs electro net
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TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
07.21.2013 , 01:23 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by JackNader View Post
is there a reason why you want commandos to be the god class?
Check the OP's sig. He's a Commando.

First, I've been on the record as stating that Op/Scoundrel heals have been over the top since 2.0. I've also been a supporter of Taunt also adding a debuff to healing, which in my opinion, is the best way to go. It has zero affect on PvE and gives multiple AC's a new utility ability.

The HoT debuff suggestion limited to Commando/Merc (who can heal in any spec, and also have a dedicated heal spec) just doesn't make sense. If anything, PT/Vanguard should have it since their top tier ability in the Pyro tree is essentially worthless anyway.