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Are warzones just a fotm fest???

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Are warzones just a fotm fest???

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
07.20.2013 , 09:10 PM | #41
Quote:
That might be some people but not everyone thinks like a little kid. I want the game to be balanced and no class overpowered( dps sniper/rage/operative heals) and no class underpowered( too many to list).
How would you be able to know if any of them are really "Overpowered" or "Underpowered" when you don't know any of their true strengths and weaknesses? That's the whole point, here. The people who claim a certain class is OP or UP have only a very shallow and superficial understanding of either the class, the skill tree, or the WZ mechanic itself.

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I have a sniper and I think it is overpowered in marksman and lethality. I have a marauder and I think rage is overpowered.(marauder is my main) I tried maining both because playing another dps would not be optimal. I do not like rage very much compared to other marauder dps but I am stuck playing it until they have another rebalance because annihilation and carnage are inferior.
I play all advanced classes, and tried out all of their specs and builds regularly during the time I was levelling. I've even built wierd hybrids and experimented it to spectacular gimpy failure for some while interesting success for others. Switched builds around during the days when we didn't even have the "free-respec for subscribers" service, often paying mountains of credits because I had to test it out and see if my new build idea worked.

I hate people without creativity and thos who just mindlessly follow what others tell them like zombies. I also despise people who lay down "definitions" and "declarations" of how PvP is played without any real basis to claim such, and drive people to think that its the system that's screwing them, without really introspecting to see if there's something the player cannot do to become better. Those kind of idiots entrap and hinder new players (and even themselves) from growing into a better player, when each and everyone who plays PvP has a possibility to become better -- if only they open their eyes. (Who thought PvP for a game would be so philkosophical? But in truth, so is anything in life)

I particularly despise people recommending 'FOTM' builds and just 'declaring' that some builds or classes are gimped from the start, and therefore my interest particularly lies in grabbing a class/build they say is underpowered or too weak, and proving them wrong. So far, there's no class/build I've played that made me think it was "weak" in PvP. There were differences in efficiency and difficulty of handling, but nothing I -- an average level player at most, not in anyway as fancy as the best players -- couldn't handle.


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People complain about everything but usually the complaining threads that last and get the most attention are based on solid facts. Like the merc dps sucks threads from before 2.0 and the pt dps suck threads from post 2.0.
There are no solid facts, because these "facts" brought up by those people spring up from fundamental misunderstanding of the character or the game. They judge class/builds by surreal numbers derived from what you are told when the game ends. Those set of numbers mean nothing without the context -- how the fight was fought is 100 times more important.


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You make more sense to me than you did before but I still think you are wrong saying that the game does not need balance changes right now. Many dps spec are underpowered, rage, and sniper lethal/marksman are overpowered. I have a sniper and tried maining it but I do not like it nearly as much as other classes, same thing with rage. I would love to play dps assassin, non rage marauder, vengeance juggernaut, or dps powertech but I do not want to waste my to just end up with crap results.
Your "facts" don't show the creativity and experience of the player. They don't show at which crucial chokepoint I threw my smokescreen or whom I've pulled back at which vital moment, with my tank vanguard.

They don't show at which perfect timing I pop out from stealth to burst down a crucial enemy, and how I keep pressure so high that the notorious "OP healer" has no choice but to run around like a Tom&Jerry chase and not being able to heal anyone but himself, when I use my scrapper scoundrel.

They don't show just how devastating a balance shadow can be when it comes to destroying snipers, since the knockback doesn't mean a deal-loss for a balance shadow.

They don't show how more effectively a TK sage can destroy things at the moment it is needed the most, despite not getting as high "damage count" as balance sages which are grossly overrated just because they get a higher damage count (that don't mean squat) at the end-game scoreboard.

None of the "underpowered" classes are really underpowered. None of the "overpowered" classes are really overpowered. People simply repeat things because a lot of people say so. They don't know the half of it.

PvP isn't democracy. PvP is an elitist society, whether you like it or not. Anything someone claims as a 'hard fact', there's always someone skilled enough that can prove him wrong. And as long as there are such people in existence, it simply means the rest of the people who cry over it, are simply in lack of skill.
"90% of PvP complaints come from people that are thoroughly unqualified to comment about anything in the first place. Stop assuming that you are a good player, then an answer will come; why you die so often, why you are CCd so often, and why you complain about healers so often - You're simply a bad player. Harsh truth."

MarkXXIV's Avatar


MarkXXIV
07.20.2013 , 10:32 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post

PvP isn't democracy. PvP is an elitist society, whether you like it or not. Anything someone claims as a 'hard fact', there's always someone skilled enough that can prove him wrong. And as long as there are such people in existence, it simply means the rest of the people who cry over it, are simply in lack of skill.
I want to believe what you said but people aren't complaining about sniper/rage/healer just because, nor are people playing these classes anymore skilled than people playing dps powertech or madness assassin. You can overthink it if you want to but it is not rocket science, the game needs more balancing. I do not expect you to change your opinion regardless of what the truth is but I am pretty sure the devs will eventually make class changes for balance.
Mains: Hesrafow(smash): 55 Se'ziru: 55(mm/lethal)
^Only Dps worth playing,WTB Op Medic The Bastion
Zrarron 54 Sorcerer(scheduled for deletion)
Yudoda 54 Mercenary(perma shelfed) unsubbed/quitted until a fix

TonyDragonflame's Avatar


TonyDragonflame
07.21.2013 , 03:44 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
I play all of them, and Vanguards and scrappers are fine.
They are fine and fun on regulars vs pugs, but not fine vs competitive premade or on ranked.
If you want play competitive, and love win, you go most strong spec which you can. Always. So, scoundrels healers much more valuable for team than scrappers most time, and vanguards... eh... only tanks can be useful, at least more than vanguards dps for team play.
May the Force be with you!
Vigilance vr 100 | Scrapper vr 91 | Focus vr 91 | Assault vr 88 | Infiltration v 82 | Sharpshooter v 73
Manhunter 110+k killed imps | TRE | ToFN

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
07.21.2013 , 05:38 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by pyromaniatic View Post
BW if you actually read the forums.. please make sure you take the advice from the experienced...
Yes, but the Experienced Ones don't play in the lowest brackets ... Players will solely get from them remarks like "just look how great this class is at level 55 !" - When the discussion is actually about Level 20 ...
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

iesnbold's Avatar


iesnbold
07.21.2013 , 05:41 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by leafy_bug View Post
you go in there, the first menage a smash is on you, all dishing 8k per hit. You pop the barrier waiting for their smash to come off cooldown
fyp

-

MarkXXIV's Avatar


MarkXXIV
07.21.2013 , 03:33 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Yes, but the Experienced Ones don't play in the lowest brackets ... Players will solely get from them remarks like "just look how great this class is at level 55 !" - When the discussion is actually about Level 20 ...
under 55 doesn't matter too much. In under 55 you can dominate with any spec even if it sucks just with good gear/skill. There are usually no healer or not very good healers in under 55 and usually no tanks. You are not under 55 for very long anyway but once you hit 55 it is permanent until 3.0 at least. Class balance matters more for serious competitive pvp at lv 55.
Mains: Hesrafow(smash): 55 Se'ziru: 55(mm/lethal)
^Only Dps worth playing,WTB Op Medic The Bastion
Zrarron 54 Sorcerer(scheduled for deletion)
Yudoda 54 Mercenary(perma shelfed) unsubbed/quitted until a fix

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
07.21.2013 , 08:12 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
They are fine and fun on regulars vs pugs, but not fine vs competitive premade or on ranked.
If you want play competitive, and love win, you go most strong spec which you can. Always. So, scoundrels healers much more valuable for team than scrappers most time, and vanguards... eh... only tanks can be useful, at least more than vanguards dps for team play.
Again, they're fine and fun in premades as well as rwz.

Of course, if we're talking about the higher level of RWZ teams, people like the server's top 5 guilds or something like that, then class optimization to squeeze every bit of performance does matter, and as long as we have these types of WZs, then granted, vanguards and scoundrels would not be a first-pick for many.

But then again, not all the teams I meet are "server's top 5" -- frankly speaking most ranked teams aren't all that up to spazz any way About 75% of matches I find in RWZs with my friends, they are only maybe one or two notches above a pug team that's got good players in it. I'd say that's plenty enough for anyone to consider "viable".
"90% of PvP complaints come from people that are thoroughly unqualified to comment about anything in the first place. Stop assuming that you are a good player, then an answer will come; why you die so often, why you are CCd so often, and why you complain about healers so often - You're simply a bad player. Harsh truth."