Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Sith ... They are misunderstood.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Sith ... They are misunderstood.

xxforcardassia's Avatar


xxforcardassia
07.18.2013 , 12:11 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Sarlegant View Post
well I see more of having it both ways nonsense...
for Jedi, failing to control emotions is the path to the darkside...
for Sith, well do they fail to control emotions, or embrace the emotions

so, for Luke, getting upset was on the path...
how long is this path?

lets review... Anakin killed all the sand people... he married... concieved children... killed Dooku... sliced Mace's hand off... became a Sith Apprentice... killed the Jedi temple... choked his wife... fought his friend ... murdered and maimed for 20 years... this is a "long" path, to which at the end he was still lightside.

so I guess it's a good thing Luke calmed down, otherwise his fall to the darkside would have been complete.

nevermind... some novel written after the movie stated he used the darkside.
Dude, you so must be on the good stuff.

Basically what I'm understanding from your post is that you don't believe in the notion of redemption? That one can't start LS, truly fall to the DS, and have some pivotal moment that brings them back toward the LS? That because they are LS later in their life after being a servant of the DS, they can't have ever been truly DS? That they had to have been LS the entire time?

Are you also rejecting the possibility that Vader never fully recovered from the DS? And that by which we see him save Luke and later appear as a Force Ghost it must automatically mean he was fully LS at his death?

And from my understanding, Luke was less of the "traditional" Jedi and hovered more in the grey area. It's also presented in TOR a few times that to be one with the Force, you need to embrace both the Light and Dark... further proving the notion that one cannot exist without the other. The idea here being the philosophies can exist independently, but one must except the Force as a whole "entity", and not Light vs Dark.

frankiejo's Avatar


frankiejo
07.18.2013 , 12:46 PM | #22
Star wars fans apparently despise moral relativism. Personally I serve the empire because I find them more interesting, but I tend to be rather neutral in alignment. there are times my character is faced with a dilemma that requires a little "evil" to solve satisfactorily, but whether a thing is "wrong" or "Right" is not relevant in a war. When I'm forced to kill a civilian, I'm not doing anything worse then what American troops do every single day, and they're "heroes". History determines whether you were right or wrong, and history only picks the winners.
Bergeron Colony
Khaeldar - Marauder
Beth'adone - Operative
P-Chloride - Sorcerer

Sarlegant's Avatar


Sarlegant
07.18.2013 , 06:17 PM | #23
Actually, when Anakin killed the first youngling he was instantly beyond redemption... yeah but ok, lets immerse in the Star Wars Galaxie far far away...

Writers keep screwing up... this path to the darkside, or lightside, seems herky jerky at best... and it doesn't seem to be a path at all...

IF Luke killing Vader, who very much needed killing, turns Luke to the darkside, and his journey to the darkside is complete, then how minutes later was Vader redeemed. One act, killing Vader, when Vader has committed repeatedly countless acts. What exactly is the darkside corrupting that can be instantly redeemed?

Thats my problem with this poetic nonsense of having it both ways, or all ways, or anything the writers want... the darkside corrupts or it doesn't... the movies, just like SWToR, what we do, our choices, have no actual effect on game mechanics. Luke could have murderized Vader, murderized Sidious, sat on the floor and meditated for 2 minutes and been fine. It's simple... don't push #1... push button #3... attack now.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
07.19.2013 , 07:38 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Sarlegant View Post
Actually, when Anakin killed the first youngling he was instantly beyond redemption... yeah but ok, lets immerse in the Star Wars Galaxie far far away...

Writers keep screwing up... this path to the darkside, or lightside, seems herky jerky at best... and it doesn't seem to be a path at all...

IF Luke killing Vader, who very much needed killing, turns Luke to the darkside, and his journey to the darkside is complete, then how minutes later was Vader redeemed. One act, killing Vader, when Vader has committed repeatedly countless acts. What exactly is the darkside corrupting that can be instantly redeemed?

Thats my problem with this poetic nonsense of having it both ways, or all ways, or anything the writers want... the darkside corrupts or it doesn't... the movies, just like SWToR, what we do, our choices, have no actual effect on game mechanics. Luke could have murderized Vader, murderized Sidious, sat on the floor and meditated for 2 minutes and been fine. It's simple... don't push #1... push button #3... attack now.
It's all in how Luke kills Vader. The Emperor wasn't just trying to get Luke to kill Vader. He was trying to get Luke to kill Vader in anger.

Interesting in how all these posters say they love/enjoy Star Wars, then can't accept it has a very basic premise of Good (Jedi/Republic) versus Evil (Empire/Sith) and those who use the Force can be redeemed.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
07.19.2013 , 07:45 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
It's all in how Luke kills Vader. The Emperor wasn't just trying to get Luke to kill Vader. He was trying to get Luke to kill Vader in anger.

Interesting in how all these posters say they love/enjoy Star Wars, then can't accept it has a very basic premise of Good (Jedi/Republic) versus Evil (Empire/Sith) and those who use the Force can be redeemed.
I guess the guy who you are talking to has never really seriously watched the movie. Luke wasn't simply going on the offensive. He was pissed the hell off. You could see it the minute he screamed "NEVER!!"

And you could see it when he was wailing away on vader's saber when he knocked him down. That wasn't "ok I have to keep up the pressure to win." No it was "I'm gonna tear his freaking HEAD OFF WITH MY BARE HANDS!"

Which is what the emperor wanted till Luke finally calmed down and realized what was right and what was wrong.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy
Finished: Trooper, Agent, Knight, Inquizitor

AlexDougherty's Avatar


AlexDougherty
07.19.2013 , 08:46 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Darwinism in economics and Darwinism as a way of life and (as far as the Sith go) death, are two entirely different things.
And both are misuses of the term Darwinism, Darwin believed in the most suitable adaptation to the environment.

Economic Darwinism is just greed, it might be justified in alsorts of ways, but has nothing to do with Darwin or his theories (theory in the scientific sense)

Darwinism as a way of life (or any other euphanism), is just genocide or murder, it basically gets summed up as might makes right. Darwin himself noted that if a species gets too aggressive, it kills off things it needs to survive. Darwin would also have pointed out the symbiosis is also a valid solution, ie allies make you stronger (real allies not what the sith have). Basically Sith are not an example of Darwinism, and never have been.
Peace can be found, above all passions. Through passion, I may gain strength.
Through strength, I may gain power. Through power, I may gain victory.
But for every enemy fallen, a new foe rises.
For every chain broken, new chains bind me. Only the Force can set me free.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
07.19.2013 , 10:13 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexDougherty View Post
And both are misuses of the term Darwinism, Darwin believed in the most suitable adaptation to the environment.

Economic Darwinism is just greed, it might be justified in alsorts of ways, but has nothing to do with Darwin or his theories (theory in the scientific sense)

Darwinism as a way of life (or any other euphanism), is just genocide or murder, it basically gets summed up as might makes right. Darwin himself noted that if a species gets too aggressive, it kills off things it needs to survive. Darwin would also have pointed out the symbiosis is also a valid solution, ie allies make you stronger (real allies not what the sith have). Basically Sith are not an example of Darwinism, and never have been.
Well adaptation to the environment includes exploiting the system (whether that is jungle or human economy) and self-improvement to rise above the competition. These two things are just sub-elements of survival instinct. In Capitalism, the wealthy do not try to eliminate the poor (they do not eliminate what makes them wealthy). On contrary, they exploit them.

So the conclusion is that Republic, in that respect, is worse than Sith. At least Sith are honest about their intentions.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Kath_Hound's Avatar


Kath_Hound
07.19.2013 , 11:26 PM | #28
Here's my two cents.

Dark Side is evil, literally evil. The teachings of the Sith, a path to the dark side, are what ya make of them. But, the actual "side" of the force that gives force users dark power is definitely evil. In some of SW's older religions the dark side was called "Bogan" (and light, Ashla... could be off on that spelling). It was considered a deity, with goals and ambition, mainly destroying Ashla. Things in game, like Sel-Makor, on Voss, and the various dark-side entities show that there is a willful corruption at work. The only time the force was given real ambiguity, as far as good/evil go, was in KOTOR 2 thanks to the ever deceitful Kreia. Other than that game, the force has always had two sides, one good, one evil.

Obviously, not all sith are evil. Think there's one in the Knight storyline, but his name escapes me. (starts with P, but that's all I remember )

*Note to self: Lightsabers make for bad chew toys, Jedi on the other hand...

DarthAeonis's Avatar


DarthAeonis
07.20.2013 , 01:10 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by frankiejo View Post
Jedi Fanboys.

Evil is an illusion, there is only victory.
omg Im stealing this
"Evil is an illusion, there is only victory."

DarthAeonis's Avatar


DarthAeonis
07.20.2013 , 01:28 AM | #30
I find it somewhat upsetting that so many ppl are hung up on this "good and evil" stuff. and its funny that this topic itself has been debated by characters in the SW universe themselves. many ppl have their opinion on how the force works or how its classified but I PERSONALLY don't see it as that. yea sure many "evil" guys use the dark side but in regards to pure power id say that's just because its more effective. and no race is inherently evil (sith pureblood) so say that is dumb. especially since evil is a matter of perspective. yea im sure many ppl would see that some of the actions the sith do may be evil but im sure they don't all see it that way. I see it as efficient. ok now I admit blowing up a planet for no particular reason is mean but lets be honest Palp was a d*ck. many great sith in history were expert practitioners of the dark side and not evil. they were hailed as heroes. but again its all about perspective. but anyway yea.... the sith are misunderstood.
"Evil is an illusion, there is only victory."