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Force in Balance


frankiejo's Avatar


frankiejo
07.15.2013 , 12:48 PM | #11
According to GL Anakin is the chosen one, and the prophecy was accomplished when he killed sidious, but what the Jedi fanboys won't accept is that it was also necessary that he destroy the jedi, any imbalance will be destroyed whether it be light or dark. The machinations of the Jedi and the Sith always ALWAYS result in near-total annihilation for all involved, whether it be the Jedi this century or the sith the next is inconsequential, it's a limitless cycle of death and rebirth. That's the ONLY way you can explain a galactic society that has been repeating the exact same war for 5,000 years meanwhile ignoring nearly all technological and social innovations that may improve galactic life as a whole. It's the reason the Star Cabal exists.
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Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
07.15.2013 , 04:30 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by frankiejo View Post
According to GL Anakin is the chosen one, and the prophecy was accomplished when he killed sidious, but what the Jedi fanboys won't accept is that it was also necessary that he destroy the jedi,
You were correct up until the last line.

JediMaster_Kory's Avatar


JediMaster_Kory
07.16.2013 , 05:33 AM | #13
i see it like this.
like 400ish jedi, and only 1-2 Dark Jedi.
so to bring balance, kill 398 jedi!
done balance made.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.16.2013 , 05:50 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
You were correct up until the last line.
Well actually, in a way he is right. I mean lets look at an analogy. Take the Mortis arc from The Clone Wars series, but replace the Son with Sidious and the Daughter with the Jedi. I'll put in in spoiler tags just because.
Spoiler
Now consider this, what if, as the Prophecy had foretold, Anakin just killed the Son/Sith and nobody else? Then there would be too much light in the galaxy and not enough dark, and the light would probably collapse in on itself. Like the Father says "Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

In order to restore balance, the Son either had to be reigned in or both of them destroyed. The former was impossible, so the latter was forced to occur. Likewise the Anakin would have been incapable of 'reigning in' Sidious so the only way to restore balance was to destroy the Sith and the Jedi. Effectively reset the dials.

Given that, the OP might actually have a point. This is the first time I've ever thought of it like this.

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
07.16.2013 , 07:35 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Well actually, in a way he is right. I mean lets look at an analogy. Take the Mortis arc from The Clone Wars series, but replace the Son with Sidious and the Daughter with the Jedi. I'll put in in spoiler tags just because.
Spoiler
Now consider this, what if, as the Prophecy had foretold, Anakin just killed the Son/Sith and nobody else? Then there would be too much light in the galaxy and not enough dark, and the light would probably collapse in on itself. Like the Father says "Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

In order to restore balance, the Son either had to be reigned in or both of them destroyed. The former was impossible, so the latter was forced to occur. Likewise the Anakin would have been incapable of 'reigning in' Sidious so the only way to restore balance was to destroy the Sith and the Jedi. Effectively reset the dials.

Given that, the OP might actually have a point. This is the first time I've ever thought of it like this.
Well no, because Lucas was pretty explicit in his words that the Sith were the ones that threw off the balance. Not the Jedi. It doesnt matter whether there is 10,000 Jedi and 1 sith. That 1 sith throws off the balance.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.16.2013 , 08:01 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
Well no, because Lucas was pretty explicit in his words that the Sith were the ones that threw off the balance. Not the Jedi. It doesnt matter whether there is 10,000 Jedi and 1 sith. That 1 sith throws off the balance.
That doesn't contradict what I'm saying. The Son threw of the planet by growing in power, as did the Sith.

What I'm saying is is that if Anakin had killed the Son and the Son alone, the balance would have shifted to the light and the planet would have undone itself. Likewise if the Sith had simply been destroyed, the balance would have shifted in the other direction. The only option was the wipe out both the Sith and the Jedi are reset the balance. Just like both the Son and the Daughter were killed.

So yes, the Sith were responsible, but destroying them would only have made matters worse. The Jedi had to go too.

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
07.16.2013 , 08:14 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
That doesn't contradict what I'm saying. The Son threw of the planet by growing in power, as did the Sith.

What I'm saying is is that if Anakin had killed the Son and the Son alone, the balance would have shifted to the light and the planet would have undone itself. Likewise if the Sith had simply been destroyed, the balance would have shifted in the other direction. The only option was the wipe out both the Sith and the Jedi are reset the balance. Just like both the Son and the Daughter were killed.

So yes, the Sith were responsible, but destroying them would only have made matters worse. The Jedi had to go too.
No they didnt. The jedi dont corrupt the balance at all. What people seem to think is the balance is an equal amount of dark side users and light side users, which is totally wrong. The balance is the light side of the force. The sith corrupt that balance. It doesnt matter what the clone wars cartoon says. Lucas>Anything

“The sad thing is Padme says there is still good in him and Luke says in ROTJ there is good in you. Its recurring. There is good in him. And that will bring balance to the force. He needs to get rid of the Sith and bring balance to the force” - GL

"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

"Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gonn are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor." Lucas

In “The Phantom Menace” one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of the Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that the Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand, a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces”

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.16.2013 , 08:54 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
No they didnt. The jedi dont corrupt the balance at all. What people seem to think is the balance is an equal amount of dark side users and light side users, which is totally wrong. The balance is the light side of the force. The sith corrupt that balance. It doesnt matter what the clone wars cartoon says. Lucas>Anything

“The sad thing is Padme says there is still good in him and Luke says in ROTJ there is good in you. Its recurring. There is good in him. And that will bring balance to the force. He needs to get rid of the Sith and bring balance to the force” - GL

"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

"Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gonn are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor." Lucas

In “The Phantom Menace” one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of the Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that the Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand, a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKxuAaQBnQU

The Clone Wars cartoon you refer to is produced by George Lucas. And these quotes you make reference to only say that destroying the Sith will restore balance, which at that point is the case, just like after the death of the Daughter the Son had to die to restore balance. It also says the dark side is evil, which is also true. But you cannot have good without evil. But George Lucas can explain it better than I can:

"The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil."

-George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

"In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything."

-George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002

"The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film."

-George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

"The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope."

-George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in 'Star Wars.'"

-George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002

"The Light and Dark Side manifest themselves in the way they are used; they are simply different interpretations of a single aspect of nature, and they exist in balance with themselves and the universe. Just as with any aspect of life and death, both the Dark Side and the Light Side are intertwined with each other, are necessary to each other and form a cosmic balance."

-The Dark Empire Sourcebook


And from the recent Mortis arc:

"It is only here that I can control them. A family in balance. The light and the dark. Day with night. Destruction, replaced by creation...Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

The Father, who keeps control over the Daughter and the Son i.e. maintains balance, seeks the Chosen One to replace him. Proving the Chosen One would restore balance to the Force through balancing the light with the dark, not destroying the dark side.

This is a common misconception based on one quote were Lucas says the Force is a 'cancer', however clearly Lucas no longer holds this to be true, given the Mortis episodes which Lucas himself had a heavy hand in creating i.e. it was his idea. This instead is the belief held by the Jedi, that restoring balance involves destroying the dark side entirely.

But according to Wookieepedia:

George Lucas himself has stated that Anakin is the Chosen One and that the prophecy is true, although it had been misinterpreted by the entire Jedi Order.[12][13]

The idea that balance in the Force is simply the light side and that the dark side is a cancer has since been overridden. Not that that makes any sense as the very word 'balance' implies equality between light and dark, destruction and chaos, light and shadow. One cannot exist without the other.

frankiejo's Avatar


frankiejo
07.16.2013 , 02:05 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
No they didnt. The jedi dont corrupt the balance at all. What people seem to think is the balance is an equal amount of dark side users and light side users, which is totally wrong. The balance is the light side of the force. The sith corrupt that balance. It doesnt matter what the clone wars cartoon says. Lucas>Anything

“The sad thing is Padme says there is still good in him and Luke says in ROTJ there is good in you. Its recurring. There is good in him. And that will bring balance to the force. He needs to get rid of the Sith and bring balance to the force” - GL

"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

"Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gonn are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor." Lucas

In “The Phantom Menace” one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of the Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that the Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand, a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces”

This has been disputed by several direct quotes from GL, you idiot.

it was necessary for the chosen one to destroy both the jedi and the sith, this is how balance was restored, and it's only after this was completed at the end of 6 that the force was in balance. It had been out of balance since the prophecy was made.
Bergeron Colony
Khaeldar - Marauder
Beth'adone - Operative
P-Chloride - Sorcerer

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
07.16.2013 , 03:23 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by frankiejo View Post
This has been disputed by several direct quotes from GL, you idiot.

it was necessary for the chosen one to destroy both the jedi and the sith, this is how balance was restored, and it's only after this was completed at the end of 6 that the force was in balance. It had been out of balance since the prophecy was made.
What you said makes no sense what so ever. You realize that Luke is a jedi yes? if the balance were to be "restored" then Vader wouldve had to kill Luke.