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Force in Balance


Denyantras's Avatar


Denyantras
07.14.2013 , 07:25 PM | #1
I've heard two different stories about how balance was brought to the force in Episode VI. I need some clarification as to which one is correct.

Story 1) It was actually Luke Skywalker who brought balance to the force when he used a bit of rage to defeat Lord Vader, but he never turned to the dark side. He in fact brought balance to the force by being in the middle. He defeated Vader with rage, yet never went to the dark side. Balance was brought to the force.

Story 2) Vader brought balance to the force after being defeated by Luke and killing Sidious. He had started as a Jedi, fell to the dark side, then returned to the light after looking into the face of his son without his mask on. He returned after death as a force apparition, something only powerful Jedi are capable of doing. Having been a disciple of the dark side and returning to the light, he brought balance to the force.

I believe the first one to be true the most because Revan also followed both paths but did not bring balance to the force, which is somewhat similar to the second scenario. Please clarify for me which of these is true.
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Lordmird's Avatar


Lordmird
07.14.2013 , 07:59 PM | #2
Vader all the way, man.
"Who dares wins" "By Strength and Guile" "Per Mare, Per Terram" "Utrinque Paratus" Her Majesty's best
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Lastrada's Avatar


Lastrada
07.14.2013 , 08:29 PM | #3
Ok, dont crucify me but this is just what I think.

The whole balance thing was never brought up until episode one, when anikin was introduced. At the time there were hundreds of Jedi, the republic was in full swing and the jedi was basically the "go to guys" for anything. Need a little help with setting the ruling parties of a general planet from passing bad laws? Call the Jedi. Your favorite senator got kidnapped? Call the Jedi. Etc, Etc.

Now, since the time that "The rule of one" was introduced the sith have been reclusive, hardley seen. they basically have faded into legend. When Darth Maul attacks Qui-gon and Obi on Tattooine I got the Impression that they were really surprised, and a sith hadn't been seen for a long time.

So with this thinking It leads me to believe that Anikin brought balance to the force when he turned to the dark side, helping the Emperor enact order 66 and slaying the Jedi. Destroying the council, and forcing the majority into hiding only to be hunted down and killed.

At the time of Episodes IV-VI force sensitives are rare, practicaly unheard of. We got Vader, and his master. Somewhere out there Starkiller is running around. We also have a young Luke, and an aging Obi-won. Yoda is out in the swamps really not doing to much. So at that score we have 3 and 3.

Luke is the redeemer. He opens his fathers eyes to the error of his ways. In the end vador throws his master to his death, sacrificing himself to save luke. Luke goes on to found a new Jedi council, hoping it will be a more "force tolerable" accadamy....I got the impression from the books that he intended to train all three paths: light, neutral and dark. Some students run off to form a new Sith accadamy, Luke's own nephew gets dragged into it and we're back to what we had in the days of ToR.

We see these same Ideals in ToR. Thousands of years before the acts of Anikin and Luke. We have Jedi's running around with full dark side influance, and Sith with Light side influance. And the few rare instances where a person has been able to stay completely neutral. Sure the galaxy is at war, but at least things are balanced.

So in short, if Darth Krayt had never enacted the rule of one cutting the Siths power base down, there would have most likely been more sith around during the time frame of episode's I-VI negating the need for balance to be brought back to the force.

Again, just my thoughts

Denyantras's Avatar


Denyantras
07.14.2013 , 08:56 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Lastrada View Post
Ok, dont crucify me but this is just what I think.

The whole balance thing was never brought up until episode one, when anikin was introduced. At the time there were hundreds of Jedi, the republic was in full swing and the jedi was basically the "go to guys" for anything. Need a little help with setting the ruling parties of a general planet from passing bad laws? Call the Jedi. Your favorite senator got kidnapped? Call the Jedi. Etc, Etc.

Now, since the time that "The rule of one" was introduced the sith have been reclusive, hardley seen. they basically have faded into legend. When Darth Maul attacks Qui-gon and Obi on Tattooine I got the Impression that they were really surprised, and a sith hadn't been seen for a long time.

So with this thinking It leads me to believe that Anikin brought balance to the force when he turned to the dark side, helping the Emperor enact order 66 and slaying the Jedi. Destroying the council, and forcing the majority into hiding only to be hunted down and killed.

At the time of Episodes IV-VI force sensitives are rare, practicaly unheard of. We got Vader, and his master. Somewhere out there Starkiller is running around. We also have a young Luke, and an aging Obi-won. Yoda is out in the swamps really not doing to much. So at that score we have 3 and 3.

Luke is the redeemer. He opens his fathers eyes to the error of his ways. In the end vador throws his master to his death, sacrificing himself to save luke. Luke goes on to found a new Jedi council, hoping it will be a more "force tolerable" accadamy....I got the impression from the books that he intended to train all three paths: light, neutral and dark. Some students run off to form a new Sith accadamy, Luke's own nephew gets dragged into it and we're back to what we had in the days of ToR.

We see these same Ideals in ToR. Thousands of years before the acts of Anikin and Luke. We have Jedi's running around with full dark side influance, and Sith with Light side influance. And the few rare instances where a person has been able to stay completely neutral. Sure the galaxy is at war, but at least things are balanced.

So in short, if Darth Krayt had never enacted the rule of one cutting the Siths power base down, there would have most likely been more sith around during the time frame of episode's I-VI negating the need for balance to be brought back to the force.

Again, just my thoughts
I wouldn't crucify you for that, in fact you actually made me remember something from III. When Obi Wan defeated Anakin and said "it was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them." When in fact at the end of VI, he DID destroy the Sith when he defeated Sidious. So it seems in context with the trilogy's "prophecy" balance bringer, it WAS Anakin. I believe fully that from the moment he decided to kill Sidious to save Luke, he was no longer Darth Vader, but Anakin Skywalker.
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Aximand's Avatar


Aximand
07.14.2013 , 09:30 PM | #5
The entire first six episodes is essentially the saga of Anakin Skywalker's life. The prophecy of the "Son of Suns" was about Anakin, although Luke could fit the title because he was raised on Tatooine, he wasn't born there. Anakin becoming Darth Vader was just a detour in the path to fulfillment. When he rejected the Dark Side (which has never been done under one's own will power outside of Anakin) he ceased to be Darth Vader and once again became Anakin Skywalker, Jedi Master, and destroyed the Sith Order by destroying both Darth Vader and Sidious, fulfilling the prophecy and restoring balance to the Force through the destruction of the Sith Order.

The title "Return of the Jedi" doesn't actually refer to Luke, because he'd already been a Jedi since Empire Strikes Back, though he became a full fledged Master on the Death Star II (even though no one was around to tell him this). Instead, the title refers to Anakin rejecting the Dark Side, and in turn the Sith Order, and returning to the Light, becoming a Jedi once more.

Edit: I may have gotten my prophecies mixed up. Anakin was either the Son of Suns or the Chosen One, or both. I dunno.
I'm not mean, you're just a sissy.
The Orange Pixel is the REAL Sith Emperor
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AlexDougherty's Avatar


AlexDougherty
07.15.2013 , 06:13 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Denyantras View Post
I've heard two different stories about how balance was brought to the force in Episode VI. I need some clarification as to which one is correct.

Story 1) It was actually Luke Skywalker who brought balance to the force when he used a bit of rage to defeat Lord Vader, but he never turned to the dark side. He in fact brought balance to the force by being in the middle. He defeated Vader with rage, yet never went to the dark side. Balance was brought to the force.

I believe the first one to be true the most because Revan also followed both paths but did not bring balance to the force, which is somewhat similar to the second scenario. Please clarify for me which of these is true.
Not sure how this is supposed to bring balance, a momentary lapse is not the same as going down the Darkside. Besides when the Emperor returned he corrupted Luke, and turned him Sith, it was only thanks to Leia that he was returned to the Light.
Peace can be found, above all passions. Through passion, I may gain strength.
Through strength, I may gain power. Through power, I may gain victory.
But for every enemy fallen, a new foe rises.
For every chain broken, new chains bind me. Only the Force can set me free.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.15.2013 , 07:45 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Lastrada View Post
Ok, dont crucify me but this is just what I think.
This is a theory many come up with, but I'm afraid it is incorrect.

The Force was actually sent out of balance when Darth Sidious and his master Darth Plagueis performed a potent ritual that shifted the Force towards the dark side, disrupting the balance. In response the Force created the Chosen One who was destined to destroy the Sith and in doing so undo the imbalance Sidious and Plagueis had caused.

So no, wiping out the Jedi Order and all didn't really help. That said the new Order was much better, and had an improved understanding of the Force. Coming to realise balance meant light = dark.

In response to the OP, given that Anakin is the Chosen One I'd say it was his actions that restored balance. That said there is also a prophecy called the Son of Suns which reads "…And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as THE SON OF THE SUNS." Which could be referring to Luke Skywalker. I wouldn't read to much into the encounter on the Death Star though. Lets remember that in the end Luke rejected the dark side, which lead to the Emperor attacking him and Vader destroying the Emperor.

P.S. Lastrada have you watched the Mortis arc of TCW? I only ask this because it the plot could be used to make more sense of this, but I don't want to spoil it.

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
07.15.2013 , 07:56 AM | #8
it was confirmed by Lucas that Vader/Anakin brought balance to the force. He is the chosen one after all, not Luke.

Dbuntu's Avatar


Dbuntu
07.15.2013 , 10:56 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Aximand View Post
The title "Return of the Jedi" doesn't actually refer to Luke, because he'd already been a Jedi since Empire Strikes Back, though he became a full fledged Master on the Death Star II (even though no one was around to tell him this). Instead, the title refers to Anakin rejecting the Dark Side, and in turn the Sith Order, and returning to the Light, becoming a Jedi once more.
But the original title was Revenge of the Jedi. I'm not saying, but I'm just saying....

Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
it was confirmed by Lucas that Vader/Anakin brought balance to the force. He is the chosen one after all, not Luke.
Yeah, but let's be honest. Lucas' understanding of Star Wars is less ideal than you'd expect.

Aximand's Avatar


Aximand
07.15.2013 , 12:24 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Dbuntu View Post
But the original title was Revenge of the Jedi. I'm not saying, but I'm just saying....


Yeah, but let's be honest. Lucas' understanding of Star Wars is less ideal than you'd expect.
Yea, that was the original title, but not the published title. Therefore it has absolutely no baring on anything at all, so I have no idea why you brought it up.
I'm not mean, you're just a sissy.
The Orange Pixel is the REAL Sith Emperor
I don't need luck, I've got ammo - Urdnot Grunt
Remember 4/22/2011. A day that shall live in infamy.